FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

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He also breathed a lot and ate a lot. I bet with the same correlation to his murderous psychopathy.

I never suggested that video games made Nikolas Cruz kill.

It is that when a really deadly school shooting takes place, there is a lot of blaming going around.
 
I was wondering if N.C. and his brother were adopted from a Russian adoption agency? I’ve heard that some of them have babies that have been sensory deprived with little to no touching, holding, interacting. And of course this creates a lot of problems as the baby goes into toddlerhood, youth, adulthood.

Hmmmm.......

I wonder about that too. I have heard nothing about his biological parents.
 
I never suggested that video games made Nikolas Cruz kill.

It is that when a really deadly school shooting takes place, there is a lot of blaming going around.
Yes. That's true. I wasn't criticizing your post at all. Sorry if it sounded that way.

I was just using it as a jumping off point, to say that so many people want to blame so many things, but any of those factors wouldn't have added up to this massacre without the common denominator of Nikolas Cruz.
 
Yes. That's true. I wasn't criticizing your post at all. Sorry if it sounded that way.

I was just using it as a jumping off point, to say that so many people want to blame so many things, but any of those factors wouldn't have added up to this massacre without the common denominator of Nicholas Cruz.

I agree.

It is a very complicated problem with no simple fixes.
 
Well, exactly. I don't think one parent working or not working has anything with this.

IMO it has a lot to do with things.

Support fear safety financial getting a break endless like anything else in life.

I always find it interesting only when talking about mental illness does the term label (IMO it is minimizing) come into wide use .

If one is talking about someone who has a stroke do others say quit labeling

If one says blue eyes do people say stop labeling

the notion of an illness being a label actually relates IMO to stigmatizing judging blaming
and ats core an inability to accept it is a medical situation

The terms monster evil chop his head off slaughter him are only applied to mental illiness

again dementia can be violent anyone up to chop off gmas head or fry em burn baby burn hang em noose em shoot him

killing is violent period (dead is dead lethal injection or a pull of a switch_ so we kill people for killing people --makes no sense .

What is the definition of hypocritical?

And in reality. back in the day. death penalty meant your head was disconnected from the rest of you in around 72 hours.

Getting the death penalty nowadays means nothing - hence its deterrence is minimal.


i dont really think people with passage of time really find any solace in knowing that the person is on death row.

In the rage and loss of the immediate occurrence it might provide some whatever


but I really don't think that 15 years from now survivors are going to feel better cause the he is sitting on death row.

If we look at our homicide numbers we can
clearly come to the conclusion that the DP does not benefit society as whole

all the money we spend on appeals we could build long term residential facilities that may result in us not being here this often

whatever were doing it aint working is it?

imo
 
"Mr. Cruz’s school disciplinary records show he attended at least six schools, including Cross Creek School, a school for students with emotional problems; Dave Thomas Education Center, an alternative high school for at-risk youth; and an adult education center. He was first identified as developmentally delayed in 2002, when he was 4 years old.

In incidents that began in 2012, when Mr. Cruz was 13, he was disciplined for being disobedient and unruly. In 2013, the records suggest, he was counseled for making a false 911 call.

He was suspended several times in the 2016-17 school year, his last year at Stoneman Douglas, and was frequently reported for prolonged and unexplained absences. In September 2016, he was suspended for two days for fighting, only to return and get suspended again nine days after the fight, this time for hurling profane insults.“ Quote

How was it possible for the family who took him in not to have known or heard some of the above?

Asking again-about the their mothers inheritance?? Please let me know if it has been answered up thread. TIA
 
Hello CARIIS, my friend.

I’m thinking outside the box, I was thinking of all our empty retail “big box” stores that are empty now.

Suppose we renovate and retrofit these empty stores for mental health long term care centers? I’m sure the space or leased at a steep discount now.

Just thinking out loud.....
 
I felt his motive for shooting up the school on Valentines Day was he was still reeling from some other guy “taking her away” from him. There were comments posted upthread about him still harassing his ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend.

Yet, they were not among the victims?
Is that odd? Could he just not find them?
It seems like he was determined to kill him at least, why didn't he?
 
Yet, they were not among the victims?
Is that odd? Could he just not find them?
It seems like he was determined to kill him at least, why didn't he?

Yes.....maybe in his mind he thought he would reach and kill all of them? Maybe he was thinking he could also get some of the kids involved with his fights too? His own half-brother went to that school too, right?
 
You need to read more then. My niece is Autistic and is a student at the top engineering university in NJ. She is incredibly bright.

I’m so surprised at the misconceptions of autism in this thread. It’s honestly cringey to read.


I think somewhere in the mix the notion that he got good grades was incorrect/

He was held back two times
 
"Mr. Cruz’s school disciplinary records show he attended at least six schools, including Cross Creek School, a school for students with emotional problems; Dave Thomas Education Center, an alternative high school for at-risk youth; and an adult education center. He was first identified as developmentally delayed in 2002, when he was 4 years old.

In incidents that began in 2012, when Mr. Cruz was 13, he was disciplined for being disobedient and unruly. In 2013, the records suggest, he was counseled for making a false 911 call.

He was suspended several times in the 2016-17 school year, his last year at Stoneman Douglas, and was frequently reported for prolonged and unexplained absences. In September 2016, he was suspended for two days for fighting, only to return and get suspended again nine days after the fight, this time for hurling profane insults.“ Quote

How was it possible for the family who took him in not to have known or heard some of the above?

Asking again-about the their mothers inheritance?? Please let me know if it has been answered up thread. TIA
BBM

That's a good question. Maybe they were aware of some problems, but convinced themselves that he just wasn't a good fit for the school system?

I know some people who felt that the school system brought out the worst in their children, that their kids had unique personalities and they weren't able to adapt to, thrive in, that environment, ( and sometimes it's even true!). Maybe they were using some sort of justification for some of his problems and thought that he was salvageable.

I know a family that lived right across the street from me in Fitchburg that did the same thing with their son. And they felt his personality was just incompatible with the school system the neighborhood...that he was just misunderstood...

in truth he was mean and evil and you could see it from a really young age.

When he was 19 he murdered a man for fun, in Cold Blood, on a dare basically, so we heard.
http://www.nashobavalleyvoice.com/ci_22360427/life-sentence-reinstated-2001-townsend-murder-case
 
Hey, yall! I usually only come on at night before bed, so I have tons to catch up on. I feel like a proud mama tonight! 12 hours ago, people started asking questions about institutions and mental health in the US right now. In that 12 hours, yall did a great job actually getting pretty close to the timeline and evolution of services. It made me smile to see my sleuthers finding the info that was in my brain to tell.

I worked in mental health for 16 years. I was the Associate Director of a mid sized mental health agency. My situation was unique because I started in the mental health (only) system. Then, as that system quickly--- and I do mean quickly---- was ******ed (de fun ded). I stayed in the same company but worked with adults diagnosed with developmental disabilities (long ago was called mental retardation, is usaully referred to as intellectual disability now. It constantly changes and evolves).

Where do I begin???? Seriously. It is a long, difficult story. The short answer is that institutions were closed. Rights are (obviously) a huge part of life and treatment of others. Human rights began thinking most people could live in the community, with supports. So, they did a massive shutdown of state hospitals. And it was pretty fast. I spent 2 weeks traveling the state of Louisiana to interview people to live in the community homes (group homes ) and independent living (apartments with some staff oversight) situations. Let me say, this was not a new process. Most of the people who had not already been moved were either very violent or medically fragile. People were always moved into the community, so what was left... well, let me just say not many would have wanted them as a roommate. But, they had to be taken out. It was shutting down.

I was very good with my people. I was rarely nervous and could duck at things being hummed at my head while I wasn't even facing that direction. And I have to say, this process of interviewing and accepting the state group was scary. I was good at reading packets and big huge red flags were made into tiiiiny little details. So, I would find them and ask a million questions, trying to get the real story. Some honestly belonged in the community. Some, not so much. I would never say enough to break confidentiality, but there were definitely "I burnt the house down to kill my mom" to "I raped my 2 girl cousins" kind of packets. And yes, they were being released into the community, with supervision.

Medication is another thing. Human rights thing. You can't force medication. It is a right to refuse it. All kinds of things about it, but basically, all of us have rights. Anything you could not be forced to do, well, neither can anyone. Unless they are interdicted and their guardian says it must happen.

I don't know. If yall have questions, you can ask. It is a huge amount of info. I can't say I know everything, I can only speak from my experience. But a Masters degree in counseling, a hands on professional role in the field, as well as an administrative position in the field gave me more knowledge on the subject than I probably ever wanted.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Well the starred word above was de fun ded. I guess they thought I was talking about thise gimme money accounts :)

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BBM

That's a good question. Maybe they were aware of some problems, but convinced themselves that he just wasn't a good fit for the school system?

I I know some people who felt that the school system brought out the worst in their children, that their kids had unique personalities and they weren't able to adapt to, thrive in, that environment, ( and sometimes it's even true!). Maybe they were using some sort of justification for some of his problems and thought that he was salvageable.

I know a family that lived right across the street from me in Fitchburg that did the same thing with their son. And they felt his personality was just incompatible with the school system the neighborhood...that he was just misunderstood...

in truth he was mean and evil and you could see it from a really young age.

When he was 19 he murdered a man for fun, in Cold Blood, on a dare basically.

http://www.lowellsun.com/local/ci_29819358/killer-makes-bid-parole-fatal-shooting

Yikes! With neighbors like that I guess you would have to always be on guard. Have you heard anything about their family Will or inheritance?
 
Hey, yall! I usually only come on at night before bed, so I have tons to catch up on. I feel like a proud mama tonight! 12 hours ago, people started asking questions about institutions and mental health in the US right now. In that 12 hours, yall did a great job actually getting pretty close to the timeline and evolution of services. It made me smile to see my sleuthers finding the info that was in my brain to tell.

I worked in mental health for 16 years. I was the Associate Director of a mid sized mental health agency. My situation was unique because I started in the mental health (only) system. Then, as that system quickly--- and I do mean quickly---- was ******ed (de fun ded). I stayed in the same company but worked with adults diagnosed with developmental disabilities (long ago was called mental retardation, is usaully referred to as intellectual disability now. It constantly changes and evolves).

Where do I begin???? Seriously. It is a long, difficult story. The short answer is that institutions were closed. Rights are (obviously) a huge part of life and treatment of others. Human rights began thinking most people could live in the community, with supports. So, they did a massive shutdown of state hospitals. And it was pretty fast. I spent 2 weeks traveling the state of Louisiana to interview people to live in the community homes (group homes ) and independent living (apartments with some staff oversight) situations. Let me say, this was not a new process. Most of the people who had not already been moved were either very violent or medically fragile. People were always moved into the community, so what was left... well, let me just say not many would have wanted them as a roommate. But, they had to be taken out. It was shutting down.

I was very good with my people. I was rarely nervous and could duck at things being hummed at my head while I wasn't even facing that direction. And I have to say, this process of interviewing and accepting the state group was scary. I was good at reading packets and big huge red flags were made into tiiiiny little details. So, I would find them and ask a million questions, trying to get the real story. Some honestly belonged in the community. Some, not so much. I would never say enough to break confidentiality, but there were definitely "I burnt the house down to kill my mom" to "I raped my 2 girl cousins" kind of packets. And yes, they were being released into the community, with supervision.

Medication is another thing. Human rights thing. You can't force medication. It is a right to refuse it. All kinds of things about it, but basically, all of us have rights. Anything you could not be forced to do, well, neither can anyone. Unless they are interdicted and their guardian says it must happen.

I don't know. If yall have questions, you can ask. It is a huge amount of info. I can't say I know everything, I can only speak from my experience. But a Masters degree in counseling, a hands on professional role in the field, as well as an administrative position in the field gave me more knowledge on the subject than I probably ever wanted.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Thank you for sharing your expertise & stories, mpnola.

I think what was being debated/ discussed is when or if we need to revisit **human rights** when a documented and formally investigated hostile, mentally deranged person poses a threat to others in society & to himself. Is there an appropriate and sensible time when a person can have some of those rights to freely roam amongst the general population and bear Arms taken away? And if so, what does that process look like & where do they go?
 
From so many vantage points, it doesn't really matter if the adoption was international or domestic. First, domestic (non-private) and international adoptions have lower rates of comprehensive prenatal health care and FAS. The situations are much more tenuous and poverty (access to healthcare, nutrition, vitamins, etc) is a huge issue in many domestic and international adoptions. In international adoptions a potential issue for development and bonding comes in the form of children living in an institution with less than adequate caregiving compounded with inadequate prenatal care. For those who have asked, yes, adoptive parents are counseled about potential issues that can and do occur. That said, when you are wanting a baby (through pregnancy or adoption) you never think you will be the person to miscarry, have a child with a genetic anomaly, or adopt a child with unknown health/developmental issue. Adoptive parents start out like biological parents--thinking about the great and wonderful aspects of raising a perfect and wonderful child. People who adopt children with disabilities (even those who adopt with some known disabilities and get surprised by undiagnosed ones) are also counseled-- but again many APs think they will get the lesser disability or consequences of a disability. So, yes, we know but we dream just like all parents do.

My understanding is that this family took custody these boys when they were days old. If his brother is bio to him and was in custody at two days old, then it is impossible that this was international. Children in international adoptions (back then in differing ways than today) have to have paperwork that proves abandonment, health certifications, etc. There is no way a two day old or very young infant would be able to enter the US that quickly-- four months was incredibly young (and, exceedingly rare) back in the late 1990s. If the bio or half-bio is correct and if the two day old photo story is correct, they had to be born in the US. I have experience with international adoption, many adoptive parents would give their eye teeth to hold their child at 2 days or a week old.

Biological mother drug use, stress level (including trauma related to trafficking or rape), access to care, maternal mental health/functioning, and generational care are all factors in delivering a healthy baby. When factors for an optimal pregnancy are compromised, a baby can be born with health or developmental issues. If that same baby is born with drug related or alcohol related withdrawal issues, we have prenatal factors and newborn factors to contend with. All of a child's issues are compounded if their placement in a home is erratic or changing or chaotic-- ie, with a parent who is unable to care/provide for them in love/food/shelter, a foster home with many children with many needs, or an orphanage with too few caregivers or too little food. Yes, adopted kids can be at a greater risk for mental health issues but stable, consistent homes with parents who are well counseled/educated can overcome lots just as children born to parents who don't have enough food or shelter, struggle with providing love, maintain chaotic homes, etc can be at great risk without every entering the realm of adoption.

Hope this tome helps those who are asking about country of origin or know about the adoption nightmares and are wondering about parallels.
 
No, but the question was that if he was found to be mentally ill, could he be rehabilitated and eventually released back into society.

And the answer is "it depends". Of the three conditions so far mentioned in connection with Cruz only one (the OCD) is clearly recognised, AFAIK, as a mental illness so only that one would be considered in connection with whether he is mentally ill or not.


There has to be a "place" to rehabilitate

there is no "place" for rehab any longer

In mental illness rehab has a different connotation as opposed to broken leg or something

For mental it is more about having a setting
that based on situation provides a "place" for
to :be: surrounded by people and places that can help support the deficiencies ( bathing cooking checking account etc etc)

in the mid 70's they tossed that all out the window

if anyone wants to go online for whatever and look for long term in patient residential placement or something like that and give them a call or 130,000 a year
 
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