FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[Latestforever]

There are conflicting reports about the gun safe key. Here is a Fox News article that has a different report about. I don't blame this family at all, they tried.

"
When it came to Cruz’s guns, the Sneads made him lock them in a safe. Kimberly Snead said she thought she had the only keys to the safe, but believes Cruz made a copy for himself that the couple didn’t know about."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...hool-shooting-say-couple-who-took-him-in.html

 

[keeleydoll]

I do know that the school has to follow confidentiality laws, they can not tell a parent about another students "file/behavior problems". You can tell them all you want, they can't tell you anything. I have had a recent experience with this.

Correct. When the kid pulled a knife on my son and his friends, the school didn’t even notify me, my son and another parent did. When I called the school they said they couldn’t discuss the incident or disclose that student’s name due to their privacy rules.


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[bears10]

I didn’t even mention the families who took them in. As NC was over 18, personally I’d expect the stipend to go to him. I think they were wonderful and kind to try and help a kids in need.


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Sorry, my comment about the family who took him in was responding in general to posters who seem to be criticizing them.

Now we know that she didn’t even have a will, so nothing about her finances and financial planning was obvious by any means.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Correct. When the kid pulled a knife on my son and his friends, the school didn’t even notify me, my son and another parent did. When I called the school they said they couldn’t discuss the incident or disclose that student’s name due to their privacy rules.


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That’s a good one ‘Privacy Rules’! Is that like Hippa for Academia? Schools may want to rethink keeping criminal activity private in the future. Don’t know what the immediate answer is to ‘the school not telling you that your child has been assaulted’ other than bye bye. Sorry that you had this experience, I can imagine you must have been very upset.

 

[fabvab]

That’s a good one ‘Privacy Rules’! Is that like Hippa for Academia? You definitely don’t want to keep criminal activity private in the future. Don’t know what the answer is to ‘the school not telling you that your child has been assaulted’ other than bye bye.

It is called FERPA...Family Educational Rights and Privacy
Act

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) is a federal privacy law that gives parents certain protections with regard to their children's education records, such as report cards, transcripts, disciplinary records, contact and family information, and class schedules. As a parent, you have the right to review your child's education records and to request changes under limited circumstances. To protect your child's privacy, the law generally requires schools to ask for written consent before disclosing your child's personally identifiable information to individuals other than you.

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/brochures/parents.html

 

[keeleydoll]

That’s a good one ‘Privacy Rules’! Is that like Hippa for Academia? You definitely don’t want to keep criminal activity private in the future. Don’t know what the answer is to ‘the school not telling you that your child has been assaulted’ other than bye bye.

Yes, FERPA

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99) is a Federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education.

FERPA gives parents certain rights with respect to their children's education records. These rights transfer to the student when he or she reaches the age of 18 or attends a school beyond the high school level. Students to whom the rights have transferred are "eligible students."
...

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):

School officials with legitimate educational interest;
Other schools to which a student is transferring;
Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes;
Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;
Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school;
Accrediting organizations;
To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena;
Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and
State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law.


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[watergirl62]

I dont know i find the rotc stuff bewildering. Its not like socialization skills come and go !! It seems as if peers in the program would have the same response to unusual behaviors and the rotc leaders would too

i wonder if this is something that got into the narrative and is confused. It same thing with good grades being held back two times does not indicate academic performance.

He might have done better in the placement for severely impaired young people? I wonder how long he was there as well?



it was the gov of FL that started the rumor about gas masks and canisters ! Go politicians!!

Re: good grades , held back...

I think it's a function of ADHD. Overacheiving in areas that they have interest in which allows intense focus and underachieving in subjects or activities that don't interest them and they simply cannot pay attention.

Okay here we go. Link.
https://www.additudemag.com/understanding-adhd-hyperfocus/


Hyperfocus is the tendency for children and adults with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD or ADD) to focus very intently on things that interest them. At times, the focus is so strong that they become oblivious to the world around them. Hyperfocus is the flipside of another ADHD symptom, distractibility.

 

[jjenny]

Not sure about that jjenny, gun shop/dealers don’t want to lose their bussiness or go to jail.

Go to jail for what,exactly? After chit chat, they should be able to decide whether someone should be able to buy a gun, and if they are wrong, they will end up in jail?

 

[jjenny]

There are conflicting reports about the gun safe key. Here is a Fox News article that has a different report about. I don't blame this family at all, they tried.

"
When it came to Cruz’s guns, the Sneads made him lock them in a safe. Kimberly Snead said she thought she had the only keys to the safe, but believes Cruz made a copy for himself that the couple didn’t know about."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...hool-shooting-say-couple-who-took-him-in.html

NC was reportedly the one who bought the safe, and the safe was in his room. Why did this people think they were the ones with the only key?

 

[Gooddeeds]

It is called FERPA...Family Educational Rights and Privacy
Act

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) is a federal privacy law that gives parents certain protections with regard to their children's education records, such as report cards, transcripts, disciplinary records, contact and family information, and class schedules. As a parent, you have the right to review your child's education records and to request changes under limited circumstances. To protect your child's privacy, the law generally requires schools to ask for written consent before disclosing your child's personally identifiable information to individuals other than you.

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/brochures/parents.html

No, fabvab I promise I am fully aware of FERPA. I didn’t mean for you to pull it up. I’m just circling back to the notion of these privacy laws that can make it more difficult to protect one another in situations like this. In this case there was plentiful supply and yet it didn’t result in the protection needed.

 

[mpnola]

I think the biggest thing I have learned from Websleuths (and First 48) over the years is that it is much harder to be punished for bad behavior than I believed. Most of us grew up believing if you do the crime, you do the time. But, the reality is that people are given a whole lot of freedoms, even when they infringe on the freedoms of the innocent. How many cases have you followed here where the killer turns out to have done multiple things before and should have never been walking the streets? I have followed so many.

It is a fine line between punishing people much more harshly than we think they deserve and punishing people enough so they do not have to freedom to continue to harm others.

We ask why if this violent, behaviorally unstable child wasn't locked up..... but tomorrow, we will see a video of a disabled chikd being restrained by the police and scream out that they are wrongfully abusing the poor disabled kid. Hindsight is always 20/20. We need more options, better resources, better follow up to issues! I mean, when a sex offender is released and reoffends almost immediately, we should have been able to track him! No he's prowling! No he was in the area a child went missing, etc. It's not an easy solution, but taking all funds away and throwing mental health in the same category with criminal behavior isn't helping.

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[Latestforever]

NC was reportedly the one who bought the safe, and the safe was in his room. Why did this people think they were the ones with the only key?

JJenny, I really don't know. I feel uncomfortable speaking about this couple in a negative way. They are probably feeling the heat for all of this, which they shouldn't. Their home is not a fancy expensive home. I hope with all of the attention they don't loose what they have and have to move. I hope their children do not become hassled to the point they have to move. They did what they thought was right and I pray that God will take care of them. There are many people like them who help and the outcome is wonderful.

 

[jjenny]

A little new info: Lynda Cruz did not have a will. Her friend who used to live next door has file paperwork to administer
her estate. NC's adoptive father was 62 when they adopted the two little boys. What was he thinking?
He died 5 yrs. later.
Their home was short saled- no proceeds from sale.

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news...home-over-gun-dispute/NnRFpOjnkEGAh3K5wJ2m2I/

Sixty two isn't that old, men are able to have biological children at that age.

 

[mpnola]

And I would add, what services are they getting while they are there and what follow up is provided?

I know these things cost money, but so do all these funerals, trials, etc. after the fact.

It seems that a relatively small percentage of people with serious mental illness are dangerous. We have a lot of case studies now. Why can’t we determine and agree on red flags and then provide intensive support (whatever that looks like) with long term follow up to that small percentage?

Just jumping off your post, Taste of Honey. And MOO.

Exactly. Very good thought process.

When they are admitted in patient, lots of the focus is on medication adjustments. They also do lots of counseling sessions, usually group counseling. It might be addiction stuff or social skills training or planning for the futures stuff.

Our mental health homes had 1 year. In that year, I used to say I was in the business of creating good habits. It was literally teaching them to do the same thing every day- wake up at 730, brush teeth, go down for meds, get breakfast, go to day program/ work, return home, cook dinner, do chores, play games/ read/ relax, shower, teeth, meds, bed. Repeat. And after 1 year, they needed less reminders and it became habit. In my opinion, 1 year was very short but it was also pretty effective. Better than the nothing that exists now.

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[jjenny]

I said she obviously managed her finances reasonably well. If she hadn’t, there is absolutely no way she would have been able to continue to live in that area, supporting herself and two children without income from working for 15 years. Even having been left an estate of about a million dollars. A careless person would have blown through it quickly.


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Is there any evidence there was actually an estate around million dollars? She sold her home in a short sale and they moved into a mobile home. Maybe a million dollars was just something NC was telling people?

 

[mpnola]

I don't know who planned the funeral, but, yes, it is sad. The whole thing is sad and was preventable.

From your posts and others, I've gathered funding was cut for mental health, most of the state hospitals, and other facilities, were closed and patients let loose/thrown out into the community. I've also gathered many of them land in prison where they are preyed upon (my thoughts) by the truly criminal. I've further gleaned that, unless someone is an IMMINENT threat to themselves or others, they cannot be bundles off to one of the few facilities left standing. I further glean that someone normalized on medication cannot be forced to continue said medication and can slide back to unacceptable, dangerous behaviors.

OK. There is nowhere to go, no money for somewhere to go, cannot be removed from society unless you're holding a gun to someone's head, or maybe your own, and no one can make you take your meds. In other words, each and every mentally ill person of age, if sneaking enough, can walk around town waiting to have an "episode" of whatever sort their prone to. It sounds to me as if there is no way to stop these horrific school attacks, or any others, such as kidnap, rape, murder of young women and children, just plain murder for a lot of other reasons, etc, etc, etc. Now, throw in a few drugs, and assorted other horrors, and all we can expect as a society is total chaos on a daily basis. Am I seeing the bigger picture?

I've read your posts with interest and want to thank you for sharing your expertise. You are a true professional. Thank you.

Thank you, Trident. You have it understood. That is it in a nutshell. A big part of me is really glad that the things I have talked about as being issues and been getting worse and worse are finally getting noticed by more than just mental health providers. It is a big issue and it will effect each and every one of us more and more, as services are not provided. Once the public starts to realize and starts to speak up, maybe change can happen.

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[Gooddeeds]

NC was reportedly the one who bought the safe, and the safe was in his room. Why did this people think they were the ones with the only key?

Inconsistencies in motion regarding the gun safe. Same people-different stories. Went from ‘rule was he had to keep it in the gun safe’ to ‘the gun safe was in his bedroom’ that he ‘had’ to purchase upon moving in.

They originally said they knew he had a key but was on the ‘honors’ system in regards to using the gun. Which if he was truly in the set honors system why would they even consider the case not being in common space? Contradicting...

 

[mpnola]

NC was reportedly the one who bought the safe, and the safe was in his room. Why did this people think they were the ones with the only key?

Because maybe they said, give us the key for safe keeping and you can ask when you want them. And so he did- but only gave them 1 key. If he only ever asked twice, they would have no reason to think he was obsessed or anything. I feel sorry for them and tend to believe them.

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[Latestforever]

Is there any evidence there was actually an estate around million dollars? She sold her home in a short sale and they moved into a mobile home. Maybe a million dollars was just something NC was telling people?

The latest I have heard about it:

"Cruz told them he stood to inherit at least $800,000 from his deceased parents. Most of the money would come when he turned 22, he said. The Sneads have since seen paperwork they think supports the claim he was going to be very financially comfortable."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...amily-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

 

[jjenny]

The latest I have heard about it:

"Cruz told them he stood to inherit at least $800,000 from his deceased parents. Most of the money would come when he turned 22, he said. The Sneads have since seen paperwork they think supports the claim he was going to be very financially comfortable."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...amily-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

I just find it strange that someone with supposedly close to a million $ would sell her house in a short sale, and move into a mobile home. What paperwork did these people think they saw, and why was he showing them this paperwork?