FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[x_files]

HMS- Several neighbors claim police had been called due to his fighting with his mother AND brother. And I believe the police call reports confirm this.

It reminds me of a neighbor I had at an artist's coop years ago. The family was out-of-control. Mom was a stripper, addict never home. When she was she brought home strange men involved in WP gangs. She had four kids and the youngest a daughter. The youngest daughter told me she wanted to kill herself because mom's friends "hurt" her for money. The eldest terrorized the others. He threatened to shoot a neighbor kid pulled out a gun even. LE said nothing can be done. and left. Left an angry out-of-control 13 year old with a gun.
I lost faith in what LE can do after that.
CPS was out every week. Cops about 5 times a week. No arrests were ever made.
I'm pretty sure pointing a gun at a young neighbor kids face and threatening to shoot must be illegal. There was over 10 witnesses to this event.

 

[HMSHood]

It reminds me of a neighbor I had at an artist's coop years ago. The family was out-of-control. Mom was a stripper, addict never home. When she was she brought home strange men involved in WP gangs. She had four kids and the youngest a daughter. The youngest daughter told me she wanted to kill herself because mom's friends "hurt" her for money. The eldest terrorized the others. He threatened to shoot a neighbor kid pulled out a gun even. LE said nothing can be done. and left. Left an angry out-of-control 13 year old with a gun.
I lost faith in what LE can do after that.
CPS was out every week. Cops about 5 times a week. No arrests were ever made.
I'm pretty sure pointing a gun at a young neighbor kids face and threatening to shoot must be illegal. There was over 10 witnesses to this event.

That is really disturbing. I wonder where the father in the family is.

 

[x_files]

That is really disturbing. I wonder where the father in the family is.

His real father was in prison returned that summer and the chaos only ramped up. He moved in with his mother who smoked crack on the porch.
The mother continued to bring home gang guys and johns to the small apt.
The manager of the coop feared for her life so was too afraid to evict them. There were over 10 people with four pit bulls crammed into a one bedroom art studio.
Everyone in the coop was living in fear. The dad would walk around the coop with a crowbar threatening to kill snitches or colored folks and homosexuals. I moved.
I was extremely frustrated because NO one could or would help us or the family.
Since they were WP/Neo Nazi's even the cops were afraid of them.
The father was in prison for homicide. He threatened to kill me. I reported it. He found out and would howl outside my window.
The management of the art COOP was mot helpful she lived in fear of her life. LE refused to arrest him. He threatened to kill a black cop. The cop did nothing. No arrest. CPS would make visits and leave. Overheard the little girl talking about being forced to work with mom with men. CPS failed that little girl. She was only 8.

EDIT: The parents named there sons after The Columbine Shooters. They buy them guns and encourage them to be criminals. Crazy world we live in.

Everyone in our community did everything we could legally. I just ended up moving.
No solutions were offered.

 

[HMSHood]

His real father was in prison returned that summer and the chaos only ramped up. He moved in with his mother who smoked crack on the porch.
The mother continued to bring home gang guys and johns to the small apt.
The manager of the coop feared for her life so was too afraid to evict them. There were over 10 people with four pit bulls crammed into a one bedroom art studio.
Everyone in the coop was living in fear. The dad would walk around the coop with a crowbar threatening to kill snitches or colored folks and homosexuals. I moved.
I was extremely frustrated because NO one could or would help us or the family.
Since they were WP/Neo Nazi's even the cops were afraid of them.
The father was in prison for homicide. He threatened to kill me. I reported it. He found out and would howl outside my window.
The management of the art COOP was mot helpful she lived in fear of her life. LE refused to arrest him. He threatened to kill a black cop. The cop did nothing. No arrest. CPS would make visits and leave. Overheard the little girl talking about being forced to work with mom with men. CPS failed that little girl. She was only 8.
Everyone in our community did everything we could legally. I just ended up moving.
No solutions were offered.

That is really screwed up situation. The father is even worse than the mother as he murdered someone and caused all types of mayhem.

Sounds like the father and son are potential Nikolas Cruz.

 

[x_files]

That is really screwed up situation. The father is even worse than the mother as he murdered someone and caused all types of mayhem.

Sounds like the father and son are potential Nikolas Cruz.

I just looked at the dad's and sons FB accounts. Neo-Nazi flags, AR-15's, racist comments, posing with guns. There are a ticking time bomb. Both sons attend local public HS own guns, rifles.
Both look up to The Columbine Shooters.

 

[enelram]

A little new info: Lynda Cruz did not have a will. Her friend who used to live next door has file paperwork to administer
her estate. NC's adoptive father was 62 when they adopted the two little boys. What was he thinking?
He died 5 yrs. later.
Their home was short saled- no proceeds from sale.

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news...home-over-gun-dispute/NnRFpOjnkEGAh3K5wJ2m2I/

 

[chihuahua]

A little new info: Lynda Cruz did not have a will. Her friend who used to live next door has file paperwork to administer
her estate. NC's adoptive father was 62 when they adopted the two little boys. What was he thinking?
He died 5 yrs. later.
Their home was short saled- no proceeds from sale.

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news...home-over-gun-dispute/NnRFpOjnkEGAh3K5wJ2m2I/

IMHO if he was indeed that age it was not appropriate for him to be adopting.
Both of my (adoptive) parents were in their 40's when they adopted me and that was much older than my friends' parents back in the day.
They were generally much stricter and conservative than the younger parents. In my case I rebelled as a teenager like most do but it worked its way out fine.
40's is much different than a parent in their 60's. I can only imagine the generational gap that filled that space.
My dad passed a few years back at 93. My mom's now in her 90's and has advanced dementia. I am her caregiver on a daily basis as I was with my dad. So I've managed to keep them out of nursing homes.
All I know of my birth mother is she was 27 when she had me and she sought no prenatal care.
My (adopted) brother's birth parents were married and looked forward to their first child.
His birth mom died from a horrible accident and in that moment he was delivered by cesarean section.
I read somewhere in the early reports that NC's biological mother died before the adoption.
Anyone else remember that, have a link, or was it just more shoddy reporting?
If so and he found all of this out in his teens, what a royal mess, although I realize he was already out of control.
Nature vs Nurture is always a toss-up.
Maybe it's a combination of the worst of both in this case.
jmo

 

[keeleydoll]

RSBM

NC's adoptive father was 62 when they adopted the two little boys. What was he thinking?




http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news...home-over-gun-dispute/NnRFpOjnkEGAh3K5wJ2m2I/

I’m sorry, but I had at least two good friends in high school who had bio fathers who were in their late 60’s when they were born, another one’s father was 71 when she was born. All three are successful, contributing members of society and none are mass murders. I’m also friends with at least two older families who have fostered and adopted children through the CPS system and one (in their late 50s now) just adopted three siblings. They certainly have a better life with this stable older couple than being bounced around foster and group homes.

ETA oops embedded my comment in the quote

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[Bernina]

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...orida-school-shooting-because-of-russia-probe

[h=1]Trump Says FBI Missed 'Signals' Of Florida School Shooting Because Of Russia Probe[/h]
So...........I guess the FBI can only do one thing at a time, all 35,000 plus of them, no wonder this situation was missed......

:doh:*MAJOR SARCASM*

 

[Bravo]

Soooo if I am to believe "the voices told him to carry out the shooting" then dang those voices also told him to blend in for an escape :gaah:

 

[bears10]

If I were the older single parent of teens with psychological issues, I’d make sure that any estate left to them was in a trust with a monthly stipend or allowance until at least age 25. Mom was frugal and obviously managed her finances reasonably well as MSM stated her husband left an estate totaling about a million dollars in 2002 and she managed it well enough to not have to work for the interim 15 years.

MOO


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Sure, a lot of parents would do that. But to claim it’s “obvious” and to make it out like these families only took the kids in for the money is inappropriate imo. The most recent family NC was living with (I can’t recall their name off the top of my head) took in their kids friend who just lost his mom and wasn’t happy where he was living. And people here are making thinly veiled comments blaming them for the gun safe, saying they only took him in for money, etc. Sad. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t. Their lives are turned upside down too.

 

[bears10]

If I were the older single parent of teens with psychological issues, I’d make sure that any estate left to them was in a trust with a monthly stipend or allowance until at least age 25. Mom was frugal and obviously managed her finances reasonably well as MSM stated her husband left an estate totaling about a million dollars in 2002 and she managed it well enough to not have to work for the interim 15 years.

MOO


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She wouldn’t even spend money to go to the doctor, which ended up costing her her life. I don’t think anything is as “obvious” as people keep saying. We know very little about her. Four people attended her funeral, so I’d wager not many people know the inner workings of her finances and financial planning, especially not strangers on an Internet forum.

 

[keeleydoll]

This, along with the year or more of planning and preparing for the attack should quash any potential to argue a guilty by reason of insanity or mental illness defense.

“The attorney who is defending suspected Florida gunman Nikolas Cruz said her 19-year-old client is “sad” and “remorseful” — but she also choked up when speaking about the shooting that left 17 people dead.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...-remorseful/yEi2h1j3qMlCMiJrgtKTMI/story.html

“not guilty by reason of insanity

Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary

A plea entered by a defendant in a criminal trial, in which the defendant claims that he or she was so mentally disturbed or incapacitated at the time of the offense that he could not have intended to commit the crime. A jury that agrees with this plea may find the defendant not guilty by reason of insanity, but usually the defendant faces civil commitment proceedings if the defendant is judged to be dangerous in a subsequent hearing. (See also: insanity defense)
Definition provided by Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/not_guilty_by_reason_of_insanity


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[chihuahua]

Certainly no rudeness intended in any way, but everyone knows unless you are an adoptee you do not understand completely the feelings involved.
Even if you are an adoptive parent you cannot step into the shoes of your child.
And no one sees the world thru anyone else's eyes.
jmoeace:

eta food for thought, especially concerning closed adoptions and a little on finding out later in life that one is adopted
http://www.aetv.com/blog/real-crime/is-there-a-connection-between-adoptees-and-serial-killers

 

[keeleydoll]

Sure, a lot of parents would do that. But to claim it’s “obvious” and to make it out like these families only took the kids in for the money is inappropriate imo. The most recent family NC was living with (I can’t recall their name off the top of my head) took in their kids friend who just lost his mom and wasn’t happy where he was living. And people here are making thinly veiled comments blaming them for the gun safe, saying they only took him in for money, etc. Sad. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t. Their lives are turned upside down too.

I didn’t even mention the families who took them in. As NC was over 18, personally I’d expect the stipend to go to him. I think they were wonderful and kind to try and help a kids in need.


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[keeleydoll]

She wouldn’t even spend money to go to the doctor, which ended up costing her her life. I don’t think anything is as “obvious” as people keep saying. We know very little about her. Four people attended her funeral, so I’d wager not many people know the inner workings of her finances and financial planning, especially not strangers on an Internet forum.

I said she obviously managed her finances reasonably well. If she hadn’t, there is absolutely no way she would have been able to continue to live in that area, supporting herself and two children without income from working for 15 years. Even having been left an estate of about a million dollars. A careless person would have blown through it quickly.


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[Latestforever]

This, along with the year or more of planning and preparing for the attack should quash any potential to argue a guilty by reason of insanity or mental illness defense.

“The attorney who is defending suspected Florida gunman Nikolas Cruz said her 19-year-old client is “sad” and “remorseful” — but she also choked up when speaking about the shooting that left 17 people dead.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...-remorseful/yEi2h1j3qMlCMiJrgtKTMI/story.html

“not guilty by reason of insanity

Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary

A plea entered by a defendant in a criminal trial, in which the defendant claims that he or she was so mentally disturbed or incapacitated at the time of the offense that he could not have intended to commit the crime. A jury that agrees with this plea may find the defendant not guilty by reason of insanity, but usually the defendant faces civil commitment proceedings if the defendant is judged to be dangerous in a subsequent hearing. (See also: insanity defense)
Definition provided by Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/not_guilty_by_reason_of_insanity


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When you add in the information about how he was capable of following all the rules for the family he lived with last. I don't think insanity plea will fly at all.

Just wanted to add this not related really to this post, just thought interesting:

"
The night before the massacre seemed just like any other, they said.

Cruz had some odd eating habits. He quietly put a chocolate chip cookie in his steak and cheese sandwich.".

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...amily-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

 

[Gooddeeds]

And remember this family lawyered up immediately after shooting. they have been told what and how to discuss.
I would take this family's word with a huge grain of salt. I still believe there was some financial incentive for these
outside people to take in these boys. They were obviously collecting a monthly stipend to have them in their home.

I find this strange too. How could they not have known anything about him? Just about everyone knew something about him. Why wouldn’t you ask before letting someone in your home? They could have easily asked the school staff especially since they had a child attending there. I would want to protect my child’s well being and know in advance if there was reason to not have my child/family exposed to possible harm.

They have given 2 different accounts on his emotional state. ‘Knew he was depressed but he was getting better.’ The other was something like ‘he was really becoming more depressed.’

Depression and guns should be a cautionary signal to gain more information.

The safe-key thing is odd. First ‘they have a safe and he had to keep his gun in it, aware that he did have a key.’ Now ‘the first day he was going to be moving in he was told he couldn’t until he got a safe. The cabinet was in his room.’ I don’t understand the safety logic of having a ‘weird depressed kid’ keeping his gun in a cabinet in his room with the key?? Makes no sense. Why not keep it in a common space on day one to give you the opportunity of subtle observation?

They knew there was an issue with the previous family about the gun. It would be somewhat natural to reserve complete trust on day one.

The $2900 was ‘just’ common identity theft’, the previous neighbor did not steal from him.’ Proof?

The ramped up ‘monster living under our roof’ comment is insightful. Being as they didn’t do any research prior to him moving in. Very strange and rare for any parent to let go unchecked. I personally don’t know of any that would do it without proper vetting, for everyone’s sake.

What’s the motive?

 

[Latestforever]

I do know that the school has to follow confidentiality laws, they can not tell a parent about another students "file/behavior problems". You can tell them all you want, they can't tell you anything. I have had a recent experience with this.

 

[Gooddeeds]

I do know that the school has to follow confidentiality laws, they can not tell a parent about another students "file/behavior problems". You can tell them all you want, they can't tell you anything. I have had a recent experience with this.

Good point. I still would have gone beyond the school though with getting any information. Having someone who’s parents are deceased, no family members close by would be even more reason to gain knowledge about housing the individual. Like what if he dies? Who would they have sought guidance from for even just a dignity aspect?