FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[iluvmua]

How do you know he didn't call his dad on the cell phone to ask him?

if he did, they somehow forgot to mention it in the article or someone fo got to say " TM called his dad to see if he could go to 7-11 to buy some skittles for his brother."

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Can I ask why? I'm really trying to understand why someone would feel the need to take a gun everywhere they went...........:waitasec:

Well, there were multiple burglaries in his neighborhood. One home invasion. He may not have known what exactly he was going to walk in on the next time he walked into his house.

If you have a concealed carry permit, it's generally a better idea to keep your weapon on you instead of left in an unattended car. That's how a lot of criminals come into weapons.

There's also the notion that a gun is fairly ineffective when it's at home in your nightstand or gun safe.

 

[RANCH]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/TwinLakesTownhomesShootingUpDate.pdf

That was from Feb 29th. I do wonder why they felt the need to put this in writing. Seems odd given the circumstances but maybe at the time they thought it would help if they said it was the NW guy that killed the kid, as though that gave it some color of authority and would make people less suspicious about why he hadn't been arrested. I bet the HOA is really going to love having that piece of paper in discovery in the civil case.

In the letter from Sanford's City Manager dated March 19th they say he wasn't acting as a watch member but was on a personal errand.

Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the role of aneighborhood watch member?
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida. He isauthorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida Statute dictates.Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a neighborhood to be “eyes andears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors. They are not members of the PoliceDepartment nor are they vigilantes. Training provided by law enforcement agencies toNeighborhood Watch organizations stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations andnotifying police of those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of thesituation.Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying hisweapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when heobserved Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

 

[Boytwnmom]

the same as your "Power of Attorney" which is not usually an attorney at all. Your attorney REPRESENTS you in a legal matter-he does not act for you and you have independent judgment in regard to the course of your representation. Your Power of Attorney acts in your place in designated categories of transactions pursuant to a written agreement between the Principal and Agent. Two very different things.

BBM

He, literally, has power of attorney. Yes.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/TwinLakesTownhomesShootingUpDate.pdf

Police have determined that George
Zimmerman was serving in the role of neighborhood watch member, when he and
Trayvon Martin had an encounter which resulted in the shooting death of Mr. Marti

They also determined he acted in self defense, so he was justified in shooting TM right?

 

[m00c0w]

the same as your "Power of Attorney" which is not usually an attorney at all. Your attorney REPRESENTS you in a legal matter-he does not act for you and you have independent judgment in regard to the course of your representation. Your Power of Attorney acts in your place in designated categories of transactions pursuant to a written agreement between the Principal and Agent. Two very different things.

It was a play on words. Forgive me if that was not clear.

 

[tehcloser]

Well, there were multiple burglaries in his neighborhood. One home invasion. He may not have known what exactly he was going to walk in on the next time he walked into his house.

If you have a concealed carry permit, it's generally a better idea to keep your weapon on you instead of left in an unattended car. That's how a lot of criminals come into weapons.

There's also the notion that a gun is fairly ineffective when it's at home in your nightstand or gun safe.

I was asking why someone felt the NEED to carry one all the time. I know lots of people with cc permits and they don't carry them all the time.

 

[LambChop]

BBM---:waitasec:

Private citizens can carry guns, but they are not to engage in a course of activity that would liken them to law enforcement. That's where the term 'vigilante' comes into play. George Zimmerman ACTED like he was a SPD officer. In my opinion.

To add to your post the reason they asked GZ to stay with his car is for his own safety. We know now he had a gun. The victim could very well have been the 13 year old walking his dog if there was a struggle for the gun. They give this instruction to citizens because they want to keep people safe.....hence the statement by LE "this is our job, let us do our job". From his years of experience trying to get into LE GZ was well aware that what he was doing was wrong. At the point that he called LE and was instructed to stay with his vehicle he was aware (because he'd been through a training class) what he was expected to do. He totally ignored LE knowing that he could be risking the lives of others, but did it anyway. He was not in any danger staying with his car and obligated himself to wait as he was asked to do. LE does not want to show up at a scene and: 1. not know where you are; 2. not know what you look like because they expect to see you sitting in your car; 3. not know what type of situation they are now dealing with because you are not there to ask. GZ knew what was expected of him even if he had never attended those classes because the dispatcher was very clear in his instruction. There is a reason they ask you not to follow, stay with your car, call back if something else develops. It's for the safety of everyone involved......let them do their job. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

I was asking why someone felt the NEED to carry one all the time. I know lots of people with cc permits and they don't carry them all the time.

And I just explained two potential reasons. I'm not sure what you want, but it seems like you're fishing for a certain response.

 

[tehcloser]

They also determined he acted in self defense, so he was justified in shooting TM right?

You were saying he was not on patrol..that was what I responded to. Not the rest.

 

[TonyGatto]

Can I ask why? I'm really trying to understand why someone would feel the need to take a gun everywhere they went...........:waitasec:

This post has nothing to do with the facts of the case or the law -- but more about culture. I, too, find it hard to understand why someone would carry a gun with them everywhere they go. I try very hard to understand this, but just can't wrap my head around it. Even having a gun in the house is something I have trouble understanding, given the number of accidental gun deaths. I know it's a clash of cultures, and I respect those who are of a different mindset. To those of you who are pro-gun, I respect your rights, but to some of us it is incomprehensible. I can't imagine saying to my wife, "Honey, I'm going up to the store to buy a quart of milk." And her reply being, "Don't forget to take your gun."

 

[Boytwnmom]

don't they? Plus, it's the police dept that essentially has jurisdiction over and is involved with, the NWP so whose opinion is more credible? I think the police goofed up in saying what they did in an official press release-they were trying to HELP the situation but in retrospect, given the attention, it isn't working. They were using this to help make it go away. By March 19th it was clearly not going away. So, this also helps establish the "problems" the police dept has in Sanford.

In the letter from Sanford's City Manager dated March 19th they say he wasn't acting as a watch member but was on a personal errand.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

 

[songline]

He shouldn't have been on patrol any night according to Wendy Dorival.


In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/#.T3dMgKv2b2a


~jmo~

Interesting now what happens to "IF YOU SEE SOMETHING SAY SOMETHING"

And lets not forget he successfully got some apprehended "Good Job"

 

[raeann]

There are schedules of who is on patrol. GZ was not scheduled to patrol that night.
If he selected to do so we do not know.
But it will come out if he had selected to patrol on his own when not scheduled

THIS is incorrect....there are NO schedules of "patrol" in neighborhood watch, as the RULES of neighborhood watch specifically state that there is to be NO PATROL....EVER....BY ANYONE.

The rules as given by the person in charge of the city's NW as presented to this very complex and specifically to GZ who set up the presentation have been posted here a number of times. This woman states clearly that these are the rules everywhere.

 

[iluvmua]

This post has nothing to do with the facts of the case or the law -- but more about culture. I, too, find it hard to understand why someone would carry a gun with them everywhere they go. I try very hard to understand this, but just can't wrap my head around it. Even having a gun in the house is something I have trouble understanding, given the number of accidental gun deaths. I know it's a clash of cultures, and I respect those who are of a different mindset. To those of you who are pro-gun, I respect your rights, but to some of us it is incomprehensible. I can't imagine saying to my wife, "Honey, I'm going up to the store to buy a quart of milk." And her reply being, "Don't forget to take your gun."

If someone has a Carry Permit, I would think they would carry their gun around the majority of the time.

 

[ThoughtFox]

dispatcher never told him to stop. NEVER. :nono:Dispatcher told him we do not need you to do that.That means he can.

And because of this case, I bet there are new guidelines for what dispatchers tell self-appointed vigilantes in the future. JMOO :cow:

The dispatcher took too much for granted in what he said to Zimmerman, in my opinion. He assumed that since he called 911, then he would wait for the police. He assumed that Zimmerman would accept the advice of a professional dispatcher, but he didn't.

This will become a textbook case for why dispatchers have to communicate more clearly that people are not to take the law into their own hands. :twocents:

 

[LambChop]

They also determined he acted in self defense, so he was justified in shooting TM right?

No, GZ determined he acted in self defense, the homocide detective decided he did not. SA said because of the way the SYG law is written they had to let him go because there was no evidence "at the time" (and they repeated this a number of times) to charge him. The investigation is still ongoing so no one has determined he was justified only that until proven otherwise the SYG law would apply to him. Does not mean he is entirely off the hook and does not mean he is free from Federal charges. jmo

 

[RANCH]

don't they? Plus, it's the police dept that essentially has jurisdiction over and is involved with, the NWP so whose opinion is more credible? I think the police goofed up in saying what they did in an official press release-they were trying to HELP the situation but in retrospect, given the attention, it isn't working. They were using this to help make it go away. By March 19th it was clearly not going away. So, this also helps establish the "problems" the police dept has in Sanford.

You could be right. How is anyone going to prove that GZ was acting as a Neighborhood Watch member or just running an errand that night?

 

[vlpate]

The difference is TM was never arrested for stealing or for having the screwdriver, or anything else he had on him that day. It appears they investigated, found who belonged to the jewelry and end of story or he would have been charged. A screwdriver is not a knife, concealed weapon, it's a screwdriver and unless they were connecting it to a crime in the outside world it not against the law to have a screwdriver in your backpack (school yes because you can't even bring a plastic knife into school)...I have one in my car.

BEM: This doesn't change the fact that he had the screwdriver with no good reason to have it and he was breaking school rules. Why did he have a screwdriver in his backpack? Was he planning to do some maintenance work on his desk?
BEM: They sent the information about the jewelry to Florida (wonder why?), in case there was a report there for the missing jewelry. Trayvon refused to tell his school authorities who the jewelry belonged to.

GZ has had enough training through the police ride along program and 14 week introduction to police work to know what he was doing was wrong. That knowledge was on his side. If he were LE that night working dispatch his instructions would have been the same, stay with your vehicle..... He knew better because he did not know who TM was and GZ knew it was the responsibility of LE to handle it, not his. This had been drummed into him time and time again through the different programs he attended.

They also teach them how a suspicious person acts. He would be able to access this as well.

He was told by LE, he knew he was not to pursue TM, he was obligated to stay with his vehicle because LE was on the way. The choice was always his until it was too late. jmo

His statement to police, which they accepted after an investigation, was that he stopped and turned to go back to his truck. I haven't read anywhere the dispatcher told GZ to stay with his vehicle, the dispatcher said he didn't need GZ to follow him.

 

[tehcloser]

And I just explained two potential reasons. I'm not sure what you want, but it seems like you're fishing for a certain response.

Oh rats. You caught me. Let me change lures and get back with you. :floorlaugh: