FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[Dr.Fessel]

In the letter from Sanford's City Manager dated March 19th they say he wasn't acting as a watch member but was on a personal errand.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

Ranch, I don't think that second letter negates this statement in the first pdf:

"Zimmerman was serving in the role of neighborhood watch member," He was a watch member even if he was just going to the store.

 

[m00c0w]

This post has nothing to do with the facts of the case or the law -- but more about culture. I, too, find it hard to understand why someone would carry a gun with them everywhere they go. I try very hard to understand this, but just can't wrap my head around it. Even having a gun in the house is something I have trouble understanding, given the number of accidental gun deaths. I know it's a clash of cultures, and I respect those who are of a different mindset. To those of you who are pro-gun, I respect your rights, but to some of us it is incomprehensible. I can't imagine saying to my wife, "Honey, I'm going up to the store to buy a quart of milk." And her reply being, "Don't forget to take your gun."

Some of us have extensive training with weapons and refuse to be victims. Maybe that's something that comes from living in metro Atlanta most of my life. I see what violent thugs do on a daily basis. Students at Georgia Tech don't stand a chance. There's an armed robbery or carjacking at least once a week over there (the campus extends through Atlanta, it's not its own campus).

 

[Emeralgem]

:maddening:ullhair::anguish::noooo::gasp:

 

[tehcloser]

:maddening:ullhair::anguish::noooo::gasp:

That just about sums it up............

 

[m00c0w]

Ranch, I don't think that second letter negates this statement in the first pdf:

"Zimmerman was serving in the role of neighborhood watch member," He was a watch member even if he was just going to the store.

So we're back to giving up rights as citizens when you affiliate yourself with a NWP.

 

[LambChop]

If someone has a Carry Permit, I would think they would carry their gun around the majority of the time.

No. My husband had one for 35 years and rarely carried his gun. If he felt he needed to go into an area with a high crime rate he would bring it with him in the glove compartment but he rarely wore it. And he survived 3 intercity riots. I think it is a personal choice. jmo

 

[tehcloser]

So we're back to giving up rights as citizens when you affiliate yourself with a NWP.

Oh here we go with this again. NO it is a CHOICE to join a NWP. If you chose to join, you agree to follow their rules. It's really simple. You GIVE UP NOTHING.

 

[RANCH]

Ranch, I don't think that second letter negates this statement in the first pdf:

"Zimmerman was serving in the role of neighborhood watch member," He was a watch member even if he was just going to the store.

I never said it did. I think that GZ was a private citizen whenever he left his home and went to the store or work or where ever. JMO.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Some of us have extensive training with weapons and refuse to be victims. Maybe that's something that comes from living in metro Atlanta most of my life. I see what violent thugs do on a daily basis. Students at Georgia Tech don't stand a chance. There's an armed robbery or carjacking at least once a week over there (the campus extends through Atlanta, it's not its own campus).

It hasn't always been that way there. Things change, and not always for the better. I was at the Varsity last week. Nice to know there's one thing that hasn't changed a bit.

Still the best short order food anywhere.

 

[raeann]

Ranch, I don't think that second letter negates this statement in the first pdf:

"Zimmerman was serving in the role of neighborhood watch member," He was a watch member even if he was just going to the store.

This is going to become a very integral issue in any wrongful death lawsuits that come about. The fact that this complex never had a REGISTERED NW program could be on their side....

However, the recent meeting held before this incident to complain about the aggressive tactics that GZ had been using around the neighborhood could be their downfall. They had the chance to stop him with an official cease and desist letter, but apparently they did not do that.......not that has been released to the public as yet anyway.

 

[csziggy]

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/318229/20120322/al-sharpton-mother-dies-trayvon-martin-rally.htm

From your link:

Sharpton was invited to participate in the Martin case by attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Trayvon's parents. Crump had previously worked with Sharpton in the 2006 case of an African-American teenager who died at a Florida boot camp.

Crump involved Sharpton. Trayvon's parents did not. The article does not say if Crump asked Trayvon's parents for permission to do so.

 

[songline]

To add to your post the reason they asked GZ to stay with his car is for his own safety. We know now he had a gun. The victim could very well have been the 13 year old walking his dog if there was a struggle for the gun. They give this instruction to citizens because they want to keep people safe.....hence the statement by LE "this is our job, let us do our job". From his years of experience trying to get into LE GZ was well aware that what he was doing was wrong. At the point that he called LE and was instructed to stay with his vehicle he was aware (because he'd been through a training class) what he was expected to do. He totally ignored LE knowing that he could be risking the lives of others, but did it anyway. He was not in any danger staying with his car and obligated himself to wait as he was asked to do. LE does not want to show up at a scene and: 1. not know where you are; 2. not know what you look like because they expect to see you sitting in your car; 3. not know what type of situation they are now dealing with because you are not there to ask. GZ knew what was expected of him even if he had never attended those classes because the dispatcher was very clear in his instruction. There is a reason they ask you not to follow, stay with your car, call back if something else develops. It's for the safety of everyone involved......let them do their job. jmo

BBM is your interpretation:
My interpretation is that He was told "we do not need you to do this"
This does not mean that he can’t go out and get them a house address,
it does not mean that if he lost sight of TM and wanted to just have a peek
knowing the police is due..That he can’t get out of his car.
NO it does not mean that at all. HE DID NOT DISOBAY anyone.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

You could be right. How is anyone going to prove that GZ was acting as a Neighborhood Watch member or just running an errand that night?

I think that is going to come down to Zimmerman proving he had an actual Watch schedule which I don't think he had. In fact with him telling people if they have any trouble to call him and the HOA posting telling people to call George if they could not get a hold of the police he pretty much says he was on 24/7. When he is sitting in his SUV and he calls in a suspicious person that really sounds like the Captain.

 

[m00c0w]

Oh here we go with this again. NO it is a CHOICE to join a NWP. If you chose to join, you agree to follow their rules. It's really simple. You GIVE UP NOTHING.

According to a vast quantity of people, you give up your right to carry a weapon at all times. I think that line of reasoning is fallacious at best.

 

[iluvmua]

Oh here we go with this again. NO it is a CHOICE to join a NWP. If you chose to join, you agree to follow their rules. It's really simple. You GIVE UP NOTHING.

I'm sure GZ had other life interests besides being a watchman.

people are acting like that's what he did 24/7 365 a year.

 

[m00c0w]

It hasn't always been that way there. Things change, and not always for the better. I was at the Varsity last week. Nice to know there's one thing that hasn't changed a bit.

Still the best short order food anywhere.

There are definitely areas much worse than over there, but it's safe to say that GA Tech students get preyed on a lot because they're prohibited from carrying weapons, including even mace.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_shooting-death-legal-expenses-legal-defense

 

[RANCH]

I think that is going to come down to Zimmerman proving he had an actual Watch schedule which I don't think he had. In fact with him telling people if they have any trouble to call him and the HOA posting telling people to call George if they could not get a hold of the police he pretty much says he was on 24/7. When he is sitting in his SUV and he calls in a suspicious person that really sounds like the Captain.

Do you have a link to this HOA posting.

 

[LambChop]

So we're back to giving up rights as citizens when you affiliate yourself with a NWP.

They are one in the same. The gun has nothing to do with it. He was obligated to stay where he was and meet LE, not to follow. Once he called LE his obligation was to them, to wait for them to get there so they would know what was going on, where this person went, did you see him committing a crime, etc. The "no gun" part is that NWP does not want you to pursue, only report, and certainly do not arm yourself and pursue the subject. Those are the rules...do not follow. This is all LE was asking him to do, stay, sit, wait. That part was quite clear. Only difference is LE was not aware GZ was armed. jmo

 

[Emeralgem]

This is going to become a very integral issue in any wrongful death lawsuits that come about. The fact that this complex never had a REGISTERED NW program could be on their side....

However, the recent meeting held before this incident to complain about the aggressive tactics that GZ had been using around the neighborhood could be their downfall. They had the chance to stop him with an official cease and desist letter, but apparently they did not do that.......not that has been released to the public as yet anyway.

Imagine that...GZ had been using aggressive tactics even before he stalked, shot and killed Trayvon Martin