FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[annalia]

Do not forget also the claims "by the sound of his voice" on the 911 tapes he must have been either drinking, or under the influence of drugs.

It's amazing how many unfounded rumors and accusations are being made about Zimmerman. How it's ok to comb through his past, yet Martin's is off limits. If it turns out events unfolded exactly as Zimmerman says - he was a victim too.

my bolding

That's a new one on me.

A victim doesn't go pursuing an innocent kid with a loaded weapon, a victim doesn't believe he is judge and jury, that the kid he's pursuing is one of the *advertiser censored******, an effing ****. A victim doesn't ignore being told to step back and stop following an innocent kid.

Tray's past wasn't off limits, we know he was an AB student, we know that his suspension was not due to violence, we know that he had no criminal record. What else should we dig up about him that would make it "not okay" for him to walk down the street at 7PM? What else should we dig up about him that would make it ok for someone who didn't know Tray from Adam to assume he was a criminal and take it upon himself to go after him?

JMHO

 

[HiHater]

How was Trayvon within "earshot" of someone he knew was going to call LE, when at the beginning of the 911 call, George is in his car? Could Trayvon hear that conversation from that far away?

 

[HiHater]

So Trayvon's girlfriend has not submitted a statement to LE, and her parents want her ONLY talking to the attorney?

Um hm.

I don't think LE has any way to use her statement as any kind of evidence if they don't even have it - they have what the lawyer is saying she said.

Can she be subpeoned for the grand jury?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/traynor-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T2oGBXZWAYY

LE SHOULD have done their job and called her in themselves and gotten her statement on DAY ONE... I'm sure she has no problem appearing before the grand jury on her own accord.

 

[Marshmallow]

So Trayvon's girlfriend has not submitted a statement to LE, and her parents want her ONLY talking to the attorney?

Um hm.

I don't think LE has any way to use her statement as any kind of evidence if they don't even have it - they have what the lawyer is saying she said.

Can she be subpeoned for the grand jury?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/traynor-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T2oGBXZWAYY

I'm pretty law abiding and quite a stickler for the rules but if this were my daughter I wouldnot want her dealing with this LE group either.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I seriously doubt GZ gun was in his hand,has it been stated anywhere that his weapon was out?Many teens are armed,could it be possible that GZ thought he was armed as well?

 

[LambChop]

No one would engage in battle with a 9mm in their waistband.

Good lord, you would think a man would have enough common sense not to stick a gun in his pants much less engage in a battle with one in that position. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

Until we see photographs of George Zimmerman's injuries the night he shot and killed Trayvon, I am not going to believe they existed! The police, if they were really investigating the shooting of Trayvon Martin, and believed that it was indeed self defense, photographs would have been taken of George Zimmerman's injuries! If photographs do not exist... I have no other choice but to believe the injuries did not exist!

Was George Zimmerman's shirt taken into evidence the night of the shooting? If it was not, then why not? If the Sanford Police were doing an "investigation" into the shooting of Trayvon Martin, they would have collected this extremely important piece of evidence. It would have blood from Zimmerman's "bleeding nose" and "bleeding head wound." It should also have blood from Trayvon's gunshot wound!

We do know that police took George Zimmerman's gun? We believe they took Trayvon's phone (still trying to figure that one out)? Are those the only two pieces of evidence that they collected to back up a self-defense claim?

Police are told to collect, photograph, document all evidence! If there are no pictures of Zimmerman's injuries... or the shirt he was wearing was never collected, photographed, documented... then it isn't evidence! Just the words of Sanford Police! And I won't take their word for anything!

 

[Sensei]

How was Trayvon within "earshot" of someone he knew was going to call LE, when at the beginning of the 911 call, George is in his car? Could Trayvon hear that conversation from that far away?

IMO, he did not want to give his apt number for the same reason he did not want to tell the police where to meet him, because he had already made up his mind, he didn't know exactly where to tell the police to meet him so they would have to call and find out because he WAS going to follow this kid, he was going to confront him, and with the 9mil tucked in his waistband he WAS going to throw his weight around and get some satisfaction because these A@##$ always get away.

 

[HiHater]

I seriously doubt GZ gun was in his hand,has it been stated anywhere that his weapon was out?Many teens are armed,could it be possible that GZ thought he was armed as well?

Really...I wonder if you just made that up, or if there's any way you can provide a link to statistics or any type of article that would back that assertion?

 

[Adrienne37]

IMO, he did not want to give his apt number for the same reason he did not want to tell the police where to meet him, because he had already made up his mind, he didn't know exactly where to tell the police to meet him so they would have to call and find out because he WAS going to follow this kid, he was going to confront him, and with the 9mil tucked in his waistband he WAS going to throw his weight around and get some satisfaction because these A@##$ always get away.

I couldn't agree with you more Sensei. You can hear the hesitation in Zimmerman's voice when the dispatcher was asking about him meeting the police. He knew full well that he was going after this *advertiser censored**** and he wasn't going to "get away."


~jmo~

 

[Sensei]

I seriously doubt GZ gun was in his hand,has it been stated anywhere that his weapon was out?Many teens are armed,could it be possible that GZ thought he was armed as well?

That may very well be so, but you are not allowed to shoot someone just because you think they might have a gun. By his own admission and the 911 call at no time did TM approach GZ, the following and confronting was all on GZ's behalf, WHY would you persist in confronting someone if you think they may have a gun??? Shoot them if you don't see a gun, and how do you manage to do pretzle logic to make that self defense???

 

[LambChop]

I seriously doubt GZ gun was in his hand,has it been stated anywhere that his weapon was out?Many teens are armed,could it be possible that GZ thought he was armed as well?

Even LE are not permitted to just shoot someone because they "think" they have a gun. And this man is not a police officer. If GZ felt his life was in danger he should have never engaged TM. He was beyond his scope of responsibilities to the community. That stopped the minute he called LE and he was told to standby and wait for the patrol car. Essentially GZ took the law into his own hands and I don't believe even that is permitted in Florida. jmo

 

[annalia]

We don't know any of those things, actually.

We know that Trayvon was fleeing from a stranger who was within earshot calling LE. I'm quite certain GZ didn't have a gun pointed at him, or a physical confrontation in which GZ was bloodied and on the ground would not have happened. The gun was clearly NOT drawn until well into the physical confrontation - no one in their right mind would engage in a physical battle while holding a loaded gun, and no one would try to fight a man carrying an obvious gun.

my bolding

No he wasn't within ear shot. To be within earshot he would have had to have been just feet or even less away. That just isn't the case while GZ was calling 911. Most of it GZ was in his car.

 

[Rob774]

~Respectfully snipped~

This is OKAY! There is always more than one way to interpret a set of facts - there are as many ways as there are people reading the facts. If people didn't see things differently and debate them, there would be no way to get to the truth.

Please respect these different opinions. If you do not wish to debate them, that's fine, move on past the posts or make use of your ignore feature. BUT don't attack the poster - that is a TOS violation and will result in consequences that will leave you asking "what happened?" And the answer will be "the Mods saw it differently."

Hope that helps. Please don't attack. Try to use the information/opinion to support your own argument.

Salem

My apologies to JeannaT, the board folk and to the mods. My wording was not intended to come off as an attack. Instead i'm kinda blinded by this case, because i see a victim... who can't speak for himself. And there's one reason why he can't speak for himself, because somebody stalked him, and ended his life. And that person is still free, and wouldn't even be under any scrutiny, if the family didn't keep up the heat of this case.

Trayvon was once me, 6'2 - 160 when i was 17. Followed around in stores, women clutching their pocketbooks closer when i'm near, car door locks hammer shut when you walk past people's car in the mall, getting stopped for DWB (Driving While Black) as well as in Trayvon's case WWB ( Walking While Black ), yes i've been stopped by police while walking. But i've tried my best to not even touch opon the potential racial aspect of this case, because to me, why he Trayvon garned the interest of Zimmerman is irrelevant. Everything that he did the moment he stepped out that car is.

I'm new to the boards, and i have to be mindful to be more "passive" in my intent to get a point across, so that there will be no confusion in the future. Thanks for the heads up, regarding my aggression.

 

[LolaMoon08]

my bolding

No he wasn't within ear shot. To be within earshot he would have had to have been just feet or even less away. That just isn't the case while GZ was calling 911. Most of it GZ was in his car.

People are just making things up as they go. Adding their own details. Just don't even engage in it. No where does it state that Tray was within ear shot of Zimmerman. No one knows how far away Tray was from Zimmerman at any given moment until it became physical.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Really...I wonder if you just made that up, or if there's any way you can provide a link to statistics or any type of article that would back that assertion?

Everyone else is assuming,So I am saying just because he was a teen does not mean GZ assumed he was unarmed.

 

[Isabelle]

HLN just showed a clip of an interview with 2 women who witnessed the Wilson/Zimmerman incident. Then both stated they saw Trayvon face down on the ground with Zimmerman straddling him while having both of his (Zimmerman's) hands on Trayvon's back. I hope they get to tell their story to the grand jury!

 

[Lovejac]

At one point in George's call, the dispatcher asks him for his condo number, and he refuses to give it because he doesn't want Trayvon to hear it and know where he lives (is how I took it).

So Trayvon was within clear earshot of Zimmerman at that time, and must have been aware he was calling LE.

Does anyone else come to that conclusion? Why would Tray then run, knowing this was a very nosy citizen who was calling LE?

Okay, lets run with your thought that Trayvon was aware that GZ was calling LE.

GZ called the dispatcher when he was sitting inside his truck. Does that mean Trayvon was in the truck, too?

Or maybe one could infer that GZ had rolled down his window and had been talking really, really loudly?

 

[Belinda]

I would really, really like to know why the Sanford PD has protected GZ to the extent that they have. There has to be a reason. They have gone so far as to alter evidence (changing testimony to fit.) Why?

 

[HiHater]

Okay, lets run with your thought that Trayvon was aware that GZ was calling LE.

GZ called the dispatcher when he was sitting inside his truck. Does that mean Trayvon was in the truck, too?

Or maybe one could infer that GZ had rolled down his window and had been talking really, really loudly?

and let's not forget that the reason the window would be rolled down is because Zimmerman wanted to see how fast the RAIN would flood his vehicle...