FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[LolaMoon08]

The only reason I can think that pictures weren't taken of Zimmerman's injuries, or that they weren't in the preliminary report, or that no other evidence was taken except for the gun, is because they were never investigating the shooting of Trayvon Martin other than taking Zimmerman's word for it?

Even if there were injuries, which I am not sure I believe, they don't have any evidence of it? Even if they were to get the shirt Zimmerman wore that night, which I believe was thrown away a while ago, it would be contaminated evidence and not allowed in court?

It appears that Sanford Police never had any intention of investigating the shooting of Trayvon Martin! It wasn't until questions started to be asked by the Martin family and wanting the release of the 911 tapes, and their refusal to allow the family access, did the Sanford Police try and clean up their tracks only to make it that much worse by not having the evidence to back up their own claims of what they claim happened that night because they didn't investigate!

 

[CathyinTexas]

Of course, it's not GZ's neighbor's place to confirm something he has no real knowledge of. Is he a mindreader? If there were in fact 8 burglaries done by kids it seems reasonable to look into what Trayvon was doing there.

Granted, he did the right thing when calling the police to request their presence, if he really believed Trayvon was guilty of something. That is where his innocence ends, in my opinion.

 

[Sensei]

Would a man who is "well aware" of the gun is his pants or pocket be pleading for help like that?

Logic.

And would a kid who sees and is well aware that this strange man who has been following him has a gun tucked in his waistband be the one to try and throw the first punch?

 

[mikeysmommom]

Can you please provide a link that states "many teens are armed?"

Even if he was armed (which we all know he wasn't), it's ok to go shoot someone whom you think may have a gun and is not committing any crime? :waitasec:

I read the papers everyday teens are killing parents ,sisters, brothers,classmates ,each other,guns are everywhere.I do not have a link.

No It is not okay,but under the law everyone is speaking of if you feel threatened you can defend yourself.

 

[LolaMoon08]

That is a likely as any other MAYBE, what I do feel is this,

I think GZ LIKED carrying that gun, I think he said he carried it for protection, but his behavior makes me believe that he liked carrying the gun, and that it was not going to stay hidden, he wanted someone to KNOW that he had a gun. I will not say that he was intending to KILL someone, but I do beleive that he attempted to stop and detain Tray until the police got there, and Tray was having none of it and fought back, and low and behold GZ has a gun.

If I had to speculate, and i do, that would be my best guess of what actually happened. Occams razor and all that

I don't think anyone even puts into account that with that gun in his waistband and all the wrestling going on... why didn't it fall out during the altercation? That is another reason I believe that the gun was in his hand!

 

[CathyinTexas]

There had been 8 burglaries in the past year or so done by teenagers. GZ wasn't unrealistic to think Trayvon was up to no good.

Again, based on those facts, if there is evidence that black teenagers burglarized residents, then he should have called the police, but that is all. He shouldn't have killed him.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Sorry if this was posted. In one of the news articles there was a link with a more recent photo of TM.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/43020226381540369414510.jpg/

He still looks like an innocent kid to me, not a dangerous person. The picture of GZ does look like a menacing figure in my opinion. That is the only picture I have seen of him.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Again, based on those facts, if there is evidence that black teenagers burglarized residents, then he should have called the police, but that is all. He shouldn't have killed him.

According to Zimmerman's previous calls to LE about suspicious black men, it was his WIFE that gave LE the description of the "suspects" in these recent burglaries? Which makes me wonder... did Mrs. Zimmerman witness these burglaries with her own eyes? Or was it just easier to say it had to be black kids?

 

[CathyinTexas]

Until more info comes out it seems people are assuming all kinds of things IMO.His girlfriend assumes GZ threw the first punch,she did not see it or hear it so how can she know? I understand she was very upset but why did it take weeks for her to tell anyone she was on the phone to him at the time this all went on?People are assuming he did not get medical attention but how do you? Maybe Trayvon did not take kindly to a Hispanic man asking him what he was doing in the area,it is very possible he responded in a threatening manor.Assuming Police are protecting GZ because of his parents jobs in Virginia is a stretch IMO.Sorry but I am not hanging GZ on the info we have.

Any move Trayvon would have made would have been defensive. I think she said it sounded like someone pushed him. I don't think it is impossible for her to identify the sound of a shove, and be pretty certain it was her friend being pushed. Maybe he made the sound of someone who had been hit or shoved before she lost contact.

 

[Sensei]

I don't think anyone even puts into account that with that gun in his waistband and all the wrestling going on... why didn't it fall out during the altercation? That is another reason I believe that the gun was in his hand!

If the gun was in his hand it explains why Tray didn't try and make a mad dash the 70 yard to his Dad's house.... and the begging and pleading heard on the 911 tape, We do not know where he was carrying the gun when he left the truck but he obviously does not have a holster because it was tucked in his waistband according to reports, and a gun the size of a 9 mil would be uncomfortabe and unsafe in a pants pocket I think (not real familiar with guns) so I could be wrong

 

[LolaMoon08]

If the gun was in his hand it explains why Tray didn't try and make a mad dash the 70 yard to his Dad's house.... and the begging and pleading heard on the 911 tape, We do not know where he was carrying the gun when he left the truck but he obviously does not have a holster because it was tucked in his waistband according to reports, and a gun the size of a 9 mil would be uncomfortabe and unsafe in a pants pocket I think (not real familiar with guns) so I could be wrong

LE has made it clear that the gun was in Zimmerman's waistband. It was not in his pocket. If the altercation was that violent, the gun would have fallen out during the altercation or would have went into Zimmerman's pant leg, etc... The gun, imo, was pulled out and pointed at Tray and that is when the altercation. Like you said, there is a reason Tray did not run again. He didn't have a choice this time, imo. He had to fight for his life!

ETA: Tray was not going to be another *advertiser censored**hole who got away. Zimmerman was not going to allow that to happen.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Let's not forget that GZ sustained injuries so he was probably attacked. At least one witness saw this. Did he injure himself somehow?

It has been suggested that GZ might have touched his head (per a witness) after he touched the body of Trayvon, so it could be Trayvon's blood. We will never know for sure, because the police did no investigation. I think if that scenario is probable, so is it probable for the blood on his nose to be Trayvon's, given the fact a witness saw him on and touching the body? I would think that act is also against the law. Tampering with a dead body? Moving evidence?

 

[HiHater]

Any move Trayvon would have made would have been defensive. I think she said it sounded like someone pushed him. I don't think it is impossible for her to identify the sound of a shove, and be pretty certain it was her friend being pushed. Maybe he made the sound of someone who had been hit or shoved before she lost contact.

She said his "voice changed." I imagine when someone knocks the breath out of you...something like that. Like he's talking---probably asking why he is being followed, or answering the question of what he's doing around there---and gets shoved in the middle of his answer.

It wouldn't be hard to reenact this part of her statement...

 

[CathyinTexas]

Following "stand your ground" law, they would have to prove GZ was the one who pushed Trayvon first. The GF being on the phone did not witness it. So how are they going to prove it?

A jury will have to decide if she is credible and if they can trust her judgement. I think they will.

 

[HiHater]

He still looks like an innocent kid to me, not a dangerous person. The picture of GZ does look like a menacing figure in my opinion. That is the only picture I have seen of him.

It doesn't matter what Trayvon looked like. George Zimmerman KNEW that he was in his late teens, and Zimmerman also refers to Trayvon as a KID on the 911 call.

That's enough for me. Even if Trayvon looked much older than 17, which he doesn't, George Zimmerman cannot claim that he was unaware. He identified the correct range of Trayvon's age.

 

[Talina]

I seriously doubt GZ gun was in his hand,has it been stated anywhere that his weapon was out?Many teens are armed,could it be possible that GZ thought he was armed as well?

IF GZ had any inkling at all or suspicion that TM was armed, then that is even more reason why he should have stayed in his vehicle and not followed TM, per the 911 operator's instruction.

 

[Belinda]

I strongly feel there needs to be serious repercussions for the Sanford PD for the complete lack of protocol they have demonstrated in this case.

 

[Talina]

We don't know any of those things, actually.

We know that Trayvon was fleeing from a stranger who was within earshot calling LE. I'm quite certain GZ didn't have a gun pointed at him, or a physical confrontation in which GZ was bloodied and on the ground would not have happened. The gun was clearly NOT drawn until well into the physical confrontation - no one in their right mind would engage in a physical battle while holding a loaded gun, and no one would try to fight a man carrying an obvious gun.

BBM 1 I don't know that and have seen nothing reported to even suggest that may be the case.

BBM 2 That is also something that we can't possibly know as to when ZG drew his gun. For all we know he drew it before he even got out of his vehicle or he drew it the moment he pulled the trigger. We don't know and to say otherwise is pure speculation.

iMO

 

[Marshmallow]

I read the papers everyday teens are killing parents ,sisters, brothers,classmates ,each other,guns are everywhere.I do not have a link.

No It is not okay,but under the law everyone is speaking of if you feel threatened you can defend yourself.

but if Mr Zimmerman hadn't deliberately taken it upon himself to confront/possibly attack Mr Martin then Mr Zimmerman would not have felt "threatened". I can see Mr Martin feeling threatened being confronted with a stange man following him and confronting/attacking him but Mr Zimmerman was not the threatened, he put himself into the role of threatener.

 

[Marshmallow]

LE has made it clear that the gun was in Zimmerman's waistband. It was not in his pocket. If the altercation was that violent, the gun would have fallen out during the altercation or would have went into Zimmerman's pant leg, etc... The gun, imo, was pulled out and pointed at Tray and that is when the altercation. Like you said, there is a reason Tray did not run again. He didn't have a choice this time, imo. He had to fight for his life!

ETA: Tray was not going to be another *advertiser censored**hole who got away. Zimmerman was not going to allow that to happen.

I thought LE only said it was in his waistband when they arrived on scene