chefmom
Seriously! Ancient Aliens!
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
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I have taken some time to try to decompress, let my emotions stabilize, and look at this incident from both sides. I've read what other posters are saying and the different angles that everyone has of looking at what we know about this. No matter how I look at it, I still find GZ to be in the wrong.
Here are some different ways that I have looked at it:
Scenario #1) (This scenario gives all assumptions to the side of GZ)
GZ is patrolling the neighborhood and sees a young man he believes is acting suspicious. TM is indeed acting suspicious as he peeks in windows and looks around other peoples property. He indeed looks as though he is up to no good. GZ calls 911. (This, IMO, should have been the end of it. I would never approach a suspicious looking person who was casing my neighbors property. I would call LE and let them deal with it.) GZ speaks to the 911 operator as he follows TM down the street. The 911 operator states that they don't need him to do that. (Again, IMO, this should have been the end of it. GZ has been advised that he does not need to follow TM. Many have pointed out that the operator could only ask GZ not to follow and did not have the authority to tell him he couldn't follow. I see that as a "nanny-nanny-boo-boo approach. Sort of like a child who looks at a neighbor and says "You aren't my mom! You can't tell me what to do!" IMO, GZ called 911 for help. They did not call him. When he called for help, if he truly wanted to assist as the Neighborhood Watch Captain, he should have followed their instructions. By not doing so, he took matters into his own hands and thus is responsible for the outcome.) Now, TM notices GZ following him and his adrenaline starts pumping. Who is this guy? What does he want? Why is he following me? (It is at this point, IMO, that the SYG law is on TM's side because he has no idea who is following him or why, and in all likelyhood, is feeling very threatened.) Being scared, TM ducks into a dark pathway and waits for GZ to show up. When GZ gets there, TM jumps out at him and screams "What do you want?". GZ yells back "What are you doing here?" and a scuffle insues. GZ's gun goes off and TM lays dead. IMO, GZ is still at fault because but for his actions, this would not have occured.
Scenario #2) (This scenario gives all assumptions to the side of TM, and gives him a bit of an attitude commonly found in 17 y/o boys)
TM is walking home from 7-11 when it starts to pour rain. He ducks under a porch awning at one of the neighbors condos to wait in the hopes that it will slow up in a minute. He notices a man watching him and talking on the phone. He's been watched like that before when he's gone into stores and it pisses him off. He puts his hood up and goes back out into the rain. He hears footsteps behind him and turns to see that the man is now out of his car and following him on foot. His heart starts to pound harder and he quickens his pace. (IMO, at this point, the SYG law is on TM's side as he is now being followed by a stranger and must surely feel threatened.) He turns into the back walkways thinking maybe he can move faster but he hears that the man is right behind him. He starts thinking he has to protect himself so he turns around and yells at the man, "What do you want?" with his hands down and out to the side in the universal sign of "WTF?" GZ asks "What are you doing?" TM isn't going to play games with this man and he turns to leave. GZ reaches out and touches his shoulder and TM turns around swinging at him. (Again, IMO, the SYG law is still with TM since GZ is the one who has persued the contact and made the first physical contact.) A scuffle ensues, GZ's gun goes off and TM is dead.
I have gone over many similar scenarios, using differing variations, and no matter how I spin it, GZ, IMO, is still at fault. I believe that this would have never occurred if GZ had acted accordingly. If he had never approached TM or if he would have just hollered out "Hey, man! You looking for something?" in a friendly tone, we wouldn't be here and TM wouldn't be dead. Even if I assume that TM was doing something nefarious and planning evil deeds, it didn't give GZ the right to shoot him. TM did not approach GZ. GZ approached TM.
Here are some different ways that I have looked at it:
Scenario #1) (This scenario gives all assumptions to the side of GZ)
GZ is patrolling the neighborhood and sees a young man he believes is acting suspicious. TM is indeed acting suspicious as he peeks in windows and looks around other peoples property. He indeed looks as though he is up to no good. GZ calls 911. (This, IMO, should have been the end of it. I would never approach a suspicious looking person who was casing my neighbors property. I would call LE and let them deal with it.) GZ speaks to the 911 operator as he follows TM down the street. The 911 operator states that they don't need him to do that. (Again, IMO, this should have been the end of it. GZ has been advised that he does not need to follow TM. Many have pointed out that the operator could only ask GZ not to follow and did not have the authority to tell him he couldn't follow. I see that as a "nanny-nanny-boo-boo approach. Sort of like a child who looks at a neighbor and says "You aren't my mom! You can't tell me what to do!" IMO, GZ called 911 for help. They did not call him. When he called for help, if he truly wanted to assist as the Neighborhood Watch Captain, he should have followed their instructions. By not doing so, he took matters into his own hands and thus is responsible for the outcome.) Now, TM notices GZ following him and his adrenaline starts pumping. Who is this guy? What does he want? Why is he following me? (It is at this point, IMO, that the SYG law is on TM's side because he has no idea who is following him or why, and in all likelyhood, is feeling very threatened.) Being scared, TM ducks into a dark pathway and waits for GZ to show up. When GZ gets there, TM jumps out at him and screams "What do you want?". GZ yells back "What are you doing here?" and a scuffle insues. GZ's gun goes off and TM lays dead. IMO, GZ is still at fault because but for his actions, this would not have occured.
Scenario #2) (This scenario gives all assumptions to the side of TM, and gives him a bit of an attitude commonly found in 17 y/o boys)
TM is walking home from 7-11 when it starts to pour rain. He ducks under a porch awning at one of the neighbors condos to wait in the hopes that it will slow up in a minute. He notices a man watching him and talking on the phone. He's been watched like that before when he's gone into stores and it pisses him off. He puts his hood up and goes back out into the rain. He hears footsteps behind him and turns to see that the man is now out of his car and following him on foot. His heart starts to pound harder and he quickens his pace. (IMO, at this point, the SYG law is on TM's side as he is now being followed by a stranger and must surely feel threatened.) He turns into the back walkways thinking maybe he can move faster but he hears that the man is right behind him. He starts thinking he has to protect himself so he turns around and yells at the man, "What do you want?" with his hands down and out to the side in the universal sign of "WTF?" GZ asks "What are you doing?" TM isn't going to play games with this man and he turns to leave. GZ reaches out and touches his shoulder and TM turns around swinging at him. (Again, IMO, the SYG law is still with TM since GZ is the one who has persued the contact and made the first physical contact.) A scuffle ensues, GZ's gun goes off and TM is dead.
I have gone over many similar scenarios, using differing variations, and no matter how I spin it, GZ, IMO, is still at fault. I believe that this would have never occurred if GZ had acted accordingly. If he had never approached TM or if he would have just hollered out "Hey, man! You looking for something?" in a friendly tone, we wouldn't be here and TM wouldn't be dead. Even if I assume that TM was doing something nefarious and planning evil deeds, it didn't give GZ the right to shoot him. TM did not approach GZ. GZ approached TM.
