FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[annalia]

Neighbor comes to defense of Trayvon Martin's shooter.

“I think any time you use a weapon, there are certain anger issues working,” Taaffe said. “I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.”

The last sentence upsets me.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...r-comes-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter

This was the neighbor that was on JVM last night attempting to defend GZ. When I was listening to him I kept thinking, oh please stop, you're not making this any better and you're not doing GZ any favors.

 

[curl_in_progress]

As far as race goes, if Trayvon Martin was a white 17 year old boy who had just been killed, the Sanford Police would not have let him sit in the morgue with a John Doe toe tag. They sided with George Zimmerman and believed that Tray was just a young black who got killed because he issued a violent attack on the neighborhood watchman. They were gonna get around to figuring out who Tray was either when they felt like it or when somebody called looking for him. Which is exactly what happened when Tracy Martin called to find out if his son had been arrested.

If Trayvon was white, Tracy Martin would have gotten a phone call asking him to come to the police station so the Sanford police could tell him what happened to his son.

My opinion only.

 

[Belinda]

Neighbor comes to defense of Trayvon Martin's shooter.

“I think any time you use a weapon, there are certain anger issues working,” Taaffe said. “I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.”

The last sentence upsets me.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...r-comes-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter

I feel that this quote shows quite clearly that GZ was out to get somebody. Mad as hell about what? Potholes? A few burglaries? He wasn't going to take what anymore?

 

[LolaMoon08]

I've got to get ready to go out tonight! Girls night out! It makes me think because tonight, the friends I will be going out with represent all races. All ethnic backgrounds. We're just going out and enjoying our lives. Our friendships. Our families. I've met all of their families. They call my mom their adopted mother, their American mother, because a lot of them are from other countries and their families are in their home countries. They spend Thanksgiving and Christmas at my house. We celebrate birthdays, the birth of children, etc... together. We're family. Chosen family!

I'm blessed to have the life I have and the people I have in it. If we could all look past the stupidest thing, the color of our skin, we would all live much more fufilled lives.

I'll be thinking about Trayvon tonight and his family. I trust ya'll will keep all the updates coming. I hope I come home tonight to over a million signatures on Trayvon's petition!

 

[annalia]

The neighbor doesn't say all 8 kids were black, he says most. So how many does that make? 4-5-6?

What about the ones who weren't black? Why just specifically point out the ones who were?

I'm sorry but 8 burglaries in 15 months is not a major crime wave. Granted that one is too many but it's certainly not enough to make GZ go off the deep end or call it the perfect storm like the neighbor claims. I posted the other day that we live in a middle class area, considered safe, and we've had at least 8 burglaries in a 15 month span. We're not talking armed robberies, we're talking stolen bikes, etc.

GZ was mad as hell alright and he was out gunning for Tray.

Do we know if these burglaries all resulted in an arrest?

JMHO

 

[HiHater]

I feel that this quote shows quite clearly that GZ was out to get somebody. Mad as hell about what? Potholes? A few burglaries? He wasn't going to take what anymore?

I think GZ was mad that he had no real authority---as a neighborhood watchmen---and probably in other areas of his life as well (work, marriage, etc.)

I'd really like to know what he did for work. He called 911 at all times of the day and night, he patrolled often, and to know of all 8 burglaries he either was in touch with the PD or tuned into the neighborhood.

 

[gitana1]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706141/trayvon-martins-shooter-had-a.html

He established a pattern of calling police when things were awry in his neighborhood, from barking pitbulls to potholes and suspicious people.

---------------------

Zimmerman... who's ex-fiance filed a restraining order against him...
His comebacks to her accusations:
My girlfriend slapped me, scratched me, tried to choke me because I was going to a party
My girlfriend came after me with a baseball bat because I went to a concert without her

Can I add to the list? "He was attacking me. I had to shoot him!"
I see a pattern here.

As far as race goes, if Trayvon Martin was a white 17 year old boy who had just been killed, the Sanford Police would not have let him sit in the morgue with a John Doe toe tag. They sided with George Zimmerman and believed that Tray was just a young black who got killed because he issued a violent attack on the neighborhood watchman. They were gonna get around to figuring out who Tray was either when they felt like it or when somebody called looking for him. Which is exactly what happened when Tracy Martin called to find out if his son had been arrested.

If Trayvon was white, Tracy Martin would have gotten a phone call asking him to come to the police station so the Sanford police could tell him what happened to his son.

My opinion only.

Bam. I agree. And I think the Sanford Police are dismayed to learn that their assumptions that Trayvon was a were 100% incorrect. He was a good, sweet kid, soft-spoken, with no record, and candy in his pocket - not a knife, a gun or burglary tools - candy.

I'm sure they expected to find Trayvon was a black man with a criminal history. IMO they made assumptions based on race and are thus almost as bad as Zimmerman.

I also truly believe had they not made those assumptions, Zimmerman would have been arrested.

To me, this just goes to prove that if you are black, it can be tough to get justice.

 

[Belinda]

I've got to get ready to go out tonight! Girls night out! It makes me think because tonight, the friends I will be going out with represent all races. All ethnic backgrounds. We're just going out and enjoying our lives. Our friendships. Our families. I've met all of their families. They call my mom their adopted mother, their American mother, because a lot of them are from other countries and their families are in their home countries. They spend Thanksgiving and Christmas at my house. We celebrate birthdays, the birth of children, etc... together. We're family. Chosen family!

I'm blessed to have the life I have and the people I have in it. If we could all look past the stupidest thing, the color of our skin, we would all live much more fufilled lives.

I'll be thinking about Trayvon tonight and his family. I trust ya'll will keep all the updates coming. I hope I come home tonight to over a million signatures on Trayvon's petition!

That was beautifully written and expresses what I was trying to say much better than I did. Enjoy your friends and your night out!

 

[gitana1]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NeighborhoodWatchProgram-SPDPowerPoint.pdf

I'm kind of offended by this presentation provided by the Sanford police for the Neighborhood Watch Program. On page 8 it shows a black and white picture (no color at all) of neighbors together and they appear to be all white and it's fine but on page 9 it shows a "criminal" on a colored page and the "criminal" is also in color and it appears to be someone of color. It's very subliminal in nature but I certainly got the message. jmo :what:

Well, to be fair, I didn't really get that impression. They showed neighbors around a table in a color slide and one was clearly black and one appeared to be Asian. The criminal with the mask seemed to have no color or be white.

 

[Belinda]

I am just so damn mad that Trayvon has been taken away from his friends and family. He was a nice kid and still ended up shot dead, just because of his color. I am enraged that someone could make such a fatal assumption about someone they had never met or laid eyes on before. I can't stop thinking about this case and the end of a promising young life. The disrespect shown to Tray and his family on top of it just sends me to the moon.

 

[tlcya]

I feel that this quote shows quite clearly that GZ was out to get somebody. Mad as hell about what? Potholes? A few burglaries? He wasn't going to take what anymore?

IMO he wasn't gonna take those A-holes gettin away with it anymore.

MOO GZ blamed the recent change in the neighborhood and the influx of renters caused by the economic downturn, for ruining and bringing crime to his neighborhood. Also MOO, He viewed the young black males as "the problem" and he was fed up with the fact that those A-holes felt they could just strut right through his neighborhood, taking what they please. (my own stab at guessing GZ's motivation and certainly not my own thoughts here).

I don't know that he planned on shooting anyone. But I do sincerely believe he was hoping he could collar this kid and have him detained and waiting for LE to arrive. I think Mr. Z envisioned being the hero who saved the day, getting slapped on the back by cops, etc.


The problem with a neighborhood watchman carrying a weapon is that temptation to become too vigilant, too cocky and engage the criminals - when all you are really supposed to be doing is watching and reporting to police.

I think GZ has a real need to be a hero and teach the punks of the world a lesson. I think it irked him that he was so darned vigilant at this self appointed job and his neighbors were not nearly grateful enough. In fact, some of them seemed to not appreciate his efforts and advice on how to best secure their homes at all.

I believe all of this combined to create the tragic events the night Trayvon was killed.

 

[Velouria]

This was the neighbor that was on JVM last night attempting to defend GZ. When I was listening to him I kept thinking, oh please stop, you're not making this any better and you're not doing GZ any favors.

Amen to that, annalia. When Frank Taafe says you're not a racist, that's like Casey Anthony saying you're good with kids, IMO.

Problems in the 6-year-old community started during the recession, when foreclosures forced owners to rent out to “low-lifes and gangsters,” said Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood block captain.
“Just two weeks before this shooting, George called me at my girlfriend’s house to say he saw some black guy doing surveillance at my house, because I had a left a window open,” Taaffe said. “He thwarted a potential burglary of my house.”
Taaffe sounded chagrined when he noted that the complex is now majority-minority. Census figures show Retreat at Twin Lakes is 49 percent white, non-Hispanic, 23 percent Hispanic, 20 percent African-American and 5 percent Asian.

.Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

Taafe was just on HLN Prime News bemoaning the fact that the minority population in the area has increased since the onset of the recession, the implication being that all these minorities are responsible for jacking up the crime rate in the area. All these white homeowners were pushed into foreclosure and forced to rent to all these undesirables, to hear him tell it.

Keep talking, Frank.

 

[HMSHood]

Trayvon Martin's alleged attacker not covered under law I wrote
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012...alleged-attacker-not-covered-under-law-wrote/

When the "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" legislation passed in 2005, the catalytic event that brought the issue to the attention of the Florida Legislature was the looting of property in the aftermath of hurricanes.

 

[tlcya]

Block Captain Responsibilities

• Shares N/Watch Concept
• Distribute N/Watch News & Crime Prevention information
• Prepares area map, tel #’s Tel Tree List, Addresses
• Relays crime activity information

____________________________________________________________
Funny, I don't see carry a loaded gun or confront/detain suspicious persons listed there among GZ's duties.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Amen to that, annalia. When Frank Taafe says you're not a racist, that's like Casey Anthony saying you're good with kids, IMO.

.Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

Taafe was just on HLN Prime News bemoaning the fact that the minority population in the area has increased since the onset of the recession, the implication being that all these minorities are responsible for jacking up the crime rate in the area. All these white homeowners were pushed into foreclosure and forced to rent to all these undesirables, to hear him tell it.

Keep talking, Frank.

I know... I know... I've got to get moving!! But I'm starting to wonder if the reason none of these "*advertiser censored**holes" were ever caught was because they were never there? Where is the call from Zimmerman to LE to report the black guys casing out the house? Looking in the window?" He called his neighbor, but not police? I think it was Zimmerman creating hysteria and racial tension in the neighborhood in order to be looked at like the hero he wanted to be looked at as. Like those mother's who create illnesses in their children for support, praise, etc... I believe Zimmerman took a whole community for a ride!

 

[annalia]

Amen to that, annalia. When Frank Taafe says you're not a racist, that's like Casey Anthony saying you're good with kids, IMO.

.Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

Taafe was just on HLN Prime News bemoaning the fact that the minority population in the area has increased since the onset of the recession, the implication being that all these minorities are responsible for jacking up the crime rate in the area. All these white homeowners were pushed into foreclosure and forced to rent to all these undesirables, to hear him tell it.

Keep talking, Frank.

Ahhhh, so this is the same neighbor that said George prevented a burglary at his house, I didn't realize that. So how does he know that this black guy that GZ suspected of casing his house wasn't just another Trayvon? There's no way to say GZ prevented anything.

I think it's easy to see why this neighbor is coming to his defense.

JMHO

 

[tlcya]

During the debate concerning this incident, some have brought into question the "Stand Your Ground" law, more commonly referred to as the "castle doctrine," which has been used by the attacker to pardon his actions.

snip

The castle doctrine as passed, clarified that individuals are lawfully able to defend themselves when attacked and there is no duty to retreat when an individual is attacked on their property

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012...er-not-covered-under-law-wrote/#ixzz1pn0YXGUL

Reads as if the castle doctrine stand your ground law primary sponsor feels that GZ was in the wrong and uses the word "attack" to describe the action.

Unless I am mistaken, castle doctrine should not apply anyway because regardless of who touched who first, GZ was NOT being "attacked" on HIS property.

This is why I am so angry with the initial police response that "oh, we can't arrest him, we aren't allowed - he claims self defense"

It is so not LE's call to make, it is a judge who will make that call.

 

[i.b.nora]

I know... I know... I've got to get moving!! But I'm starting to wonder if the reason none of these "*advertiser censored**holes" were ever caught was because they were never there? Where is the call from Zimmerman to LE to report the black guys casing out the house? Looking in the window?" He called his neighbor, but not police? I think it was Zimmerman creating hysteria and racial tension in the neighborhood in order to be looked at like the hero he wanted to be looked at as. Like those mother's who create illnesses in their children for support, praise, etc... I believe Zimmerman took a whole community for a ride!

There was at least one arrest made in the 2500 block of Retreat View Circle, on February 7, 2012 of an 18 year old black male.
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Emmanuel_Burgess_7189120/
I do not know, nor have I looked for any further information on that arrest, or that individual.

 

[flourish]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NeighborhoodWatchProgram-SPDPowerPoint.pdf

I'm kind of offended by this presentation provided by the Sanford police for the Neighborhood Watch Program. On page 8 it shows a black and white picture (no color at all) of neighbors together and they appear to be all white and it's fine but on page 9 it shows a "criminal" on a colored page and the "criminal" is also in color and it appears to be someone of color. It's very subliminal in nature but I certainly got the message. jmo :what:

George Zimmerman should have acted like with the drawing on page 13 suggests. That drawing shows the appropriate action he should have taken. It also illustrates nicely what "suspicious" behavior is, which is not walking down the street being a black teenager.

ETA: and for what it's worth, the various clip art used portrays a clearly Caucasian criminal on other pages, like 13 and 14. I can't say I believe the one on page 9 was chosen with purpose to portray a non-white criminal--I think it's likely that the person doing the powerpoint typed in "robber clip art" or "burglar clip art" into google images and that was the first "free" one they could fine. Which could certainly lead to conversations about societal racism if that's the "stereotypical" image of robber/burglar. Just my 2 cents

 

[Reader]

I guess things have changed because when my husband was a detective the ME did the tracking. I remember him telling me he had to attended an autopsy of a man who was shot twice in the head and they had to put the brain in a chemical to "bake" so it could be opened. At first they thought it was one bullet entering and an exit wound. Once the brain was opened there were two bullets which ruled out that it was a suicide. He said it was very interesting to watch how they do it. But I guess if only one shot was fired it would be easier to tell if there were an exit wound too. The victim was found down by the river in his car kind of thing. jmo

Thanks....Sorry, my sentence wasn't clear but I did mean the coroner/ME was responsible for the bullet tracking. Good example you gave of why this is so important. Where the bullet entered and exited, how close the gun was to TM's body when shot and the angle of the shot can tell us a lot about what was going on during this confrontation.

Another point I haven't seen mentioned so far IIRC...did Trayvon have any
defensive wounds to his hands or arms..also could show/prove that he was not attacking GZ at the time of the shot being fired.

.....and the coroner is responsible for further testing of the body. He/she (coroner) would also be responsible for a diagram and report of all injuries to TM's body and plotting the track of the bullet.