FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[Velouria]

Can you link to the article that says GZ wanted to play cop?

I am not victim bashing. I have not called anyone buttehead, I did not ask why he was suspended but did support the poster because it could help in guessing how TM responded to the situation and how is asking when his parents went lookingmfor him victim bashing?

Do I have a link to the article that says GZ wanted to play cop? <modsnip>, we know that he was a criminal justice major who in his rounds as self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, took it upon himself to pursue and confront an alleged "suspicious person" while armed a deadly weapon.

<modsnip>.

What does the time his Trey's parents went looking for him have to do with it, unless one is implying that somehow they allowed him to run wild and/or just didn't care about him?

 

[gracielee]

Agree agree agree. I am trying to determine how it got so far to TM being killed. I am not going to go be emotion and say because GZ wanted to kill someone, because GZ was racist. Just like I am not saying TM was taunting GZ because he approached the car and then took off running as if try to get me. How can justice be served if we don't ask questions. * and clarify even IF TM taunted GZ he still should not have been shot.

Hihater, did you listen to the tapes? I do not want to, but if you did I would like to ask you some questions.

I listened to all the tapes. And I'd still like to know some background on both the individuals involved to better understand what could have gone down that night.

 

[Yoda]

I listened to all the tapes. And I'd still like to know some background on both the individuals involved to better understand what could have gone down that night.

Gracielee- how long did the call with GZ last? Did it sound like he was running after TM?

 

[gracielee]

Do I have a link to the article that says GZ wanted to play cop? No, but I do have the ability to put the facts together, and in this case, we know that he was a criminal justice major who in his rounds as self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, took it upon himself to pursue and confront an alleged "suspicious person" while armed a deadly weapon.

It really isn't that hard to connect the dots.

What does the time his Trey's parents went looking for him have to do with it, unless one is implying that somehow they allowed him to run wild and/or just didn't care about him?

We know about GZ's background, wouldn't you also like to know about TM's background? We know about GZ's 'criminal justice background' and much has been made of it. Do we know what type of kid TM was? How he interacted with people? I'm curious, I like to understand all the information available. What did happen that night.

I personally think it curious that his father called the cops to see if he'd been arrested. I'd never heard of anyone doing that before when looking for a kid. Just seems strange to me. Did they perhaps have an argument before he left the house in the rain? Why would a parent call the cops to see if their kid was arrested before going out in the car and checking the route to the convenience store?

 

[gracielee]

I posted earlier that we live on the main road in our neighborhood and we definitely get the feel of the routine and flow of everyone. And yes, we and other neighbors do call 911 on unfamiliar people in our neighborhood and race plays no part in making the call.

It's the same where we are, but for just the opposite reason. We live in the country, on a dead end road. There's no reason for anybody to come down our road if they don't live on it. In fact it's a bit out of the way to begin with. Our road is off a gravel road that bisects a farmers property. Other than Fed Ex or UPS, nobody much comes down this road. And what reason would anybody have to walk down our road, it goes nowhere unless you live here. :fence: Last week I saw two teenage boys going down our road towards the dead end. My dogs bark when somebody is out there, so I got up to see what was up. Because of the previous car burglaries and vandalism, I noted where these guys went and what they were wearing. They went on to somebody's property a house down from me, back to a burm that is at the far end of our property's, came back out to the road and followed it down to the dead end and into the woods. We have an upstair loft, so I was able to watch them all the way down to the end. About an hour later, my dogs started going nuts again. When I looked outside, the same two guys were coming up the road again, from the woods at the dead end. We watch out for our neighbors and they watch out for us.

 

[Yoda]

We know about GZ's background, wouldn't you also like to know about TM's background? We know about GZ's 'criminal justice background' and much has been made of it. Do we know what type of kid TM was? How he interacted with people? I'm curious, I like to understand all the information available. What did happen that night.

I personally think it curious that his father called the cops to see if he'd been arrested. I'd never heard of anyone doing that before when looking for a kid. Just seems strange to me. Did they perhaps have an argument before he left the house in the rain? Why would a parent call the cops to see if their kid was arrested before going out in the car and checking the route to the convenience store?

I wonder why he called the police? If my son did not return I would be out looking and then calling hospitals.

I wonder if it was raining when TM left the house?

 

[annalia]

Can you provide the link to the witness that saw GZ physically attack TM?

What? I never said anything about any witnesses saying they saw GZ physically attack him.

The moment he decided to get out of his car and go after him made him the attacker, the aggressor. Tray was walking down the street bothering no one, which he had every right to do. What's so difficult to understand about that?

Who is GZ that he can determine someone "looked like a drug addict?" and conclude that Tray was one of those *advertiser censored******* that always get away. What did he mean by those *advertiser censored*******?

JMHO

 

[gracielee]

Gracielee- how long did the call with GZ last? Did it sound like he was running after TM?

The call lasted quite awhile. I can't recall how long though. It didn't sound to me like he was *running*. It sounded like he was perhaps 'fast walking'. He sounded a bit winded, but was able to keep up the conversation with the 911 operator. It was because he sounded like he was breathing harder that the 911 operator asked him 'if he was following' the kid. That was my impression. At the end of the call, he was giving directions to the 911 operator as to where to come once the cops got to the neighborhood. I can't recall the directions without listening again, but he mentioned something about coming past the clubhouse, past the mailboxes, etc. They finally left it as 'when the cops get to the neighborhood, have them call my number and I'll tell themn where we are.' He asked the 911 operator 'if he had his phone number'. He'd already given it to him once, along with his address, per questioning by the 911 guy. Then at the end of the call he repeated his phone number, as though he was attempting to keep the kid in sight and direct the cops to where they were in the complex. That's where they hung up the call.

 

[Yoda]

The call lasted quite awhile. I can't recall how long though. It didn't sound to me like he was *running*. It sounded like he was perhaps 'fast walking'. He sounded a bit winded, but was able to keep up the conversation with the 911 operator. It was because he sounded like he was breathing harder that the 911 operator asked him 'if he was following' the kid. That was my impression. At the end of the call, he was giving directions to the 911 operator as to where to come once the cops got to the neighborhood. I can't recall the directions without listening again, but he mentioned something about coming past the clubhouse, past the mailboxes, etc. They finally left it as 'when the cops get to the neighborhood, have them call my number and I'll tell themn where we are.' He asked the 911 operator 'if he had his phone number'. He'd already given it to him once, along with his address, per questioning by the 911 guy. Then at the end of the call he repeated his phone number, as though he was attempting to keep the kid in sight and direct the cops to where they were in the complex. That's where they hung up the call.

I wonder where GZ got out of the car and how soon after he hung up that TM killed?

 

[gracielee]

What? I never said anything about any witnesses saying they saw GZ physically attack him.

The moment he decided to get out of his car and go after him made him the attacker, the aggressor. Tray was walking down the street bothering no one, which he had every right to do. What's so difficult to understand about that?

Who is GZ that he can determine someone "looked like a drug addict?" and conclude that Tray was one of those *advertiser censored******* that always get away. What did he mean by those *advertiser censored*******?

JMHO

Me? I interpreted that remark to refer to the prior burglars who'd apparently not been caught yet. Like I said, if somebody is walking around my neighborhood, aimlessly, in the rain, at night, I'd be watching for my neighbors cars and homes. Although none of our homes were broken into, everyone on our road felt vulnerable, that somebody was out there going through cars and trucks while we were inside our homes.

 

[annalia]

Me? I interpreted that remark to refer to the prior burglars who'd apparently not been caught yet. Like I said, if somebody is walking around my neighborhood, aimlessly, in the rain, at night, I'd be watching for my neighbors cars and homes. Although none of our homes were broken into, everyone on our road felt vulnerable, that somebody was out there going through cars and trucks while we were inside our homes.

Who said he was walking aimlessly? He was walking down the street.

 

[Yoda]

IMO the media is deplorable. I remember reading that TM left during half time of the NBA all star game. I just googled and multiple articles stated that. He was killed around 7:20ish? The all star game started at 7:30. ???? Why did they report this or do I have the time wrong he was shot?
http://www.nba.com/allstar2012/

 

[HiHater]

Agree agree agree. I am trying to determine how it got so far to TM being killed. I am not going to go be emotion and say because GZ wanted to kill someone, because GZ was racist. Just like I am not saying TM was taunting GZ because he approached the car and then took off running as if try to get me. How can justice be served if we don't ask questions. * and clarify even IF TM taunted GZ he still should not have been shot.

Hihater, did you listen to the tapes? I do not want to, but if you did I would like to ask you some questions.

Yes, every single one of them...

 

[gracielee]

I wonder why he called the police? If my son did not return I would be out looking and then calling hospitals.

I wonder if it was raining when TM left the house?

We had three daughters, no sons. But we always had *battle plans* when our daughters were out. When they worked at night, they called us just before leaving work, so we'd give them like 15 minutes to get home. If they didn't get home in that time, my husband would go out and drive their route to see if they had a flat tire, car trouble, etc. This was before the days of cell phones. Our daughters waitressed through high school & college. We had the same plan if they baby-sat for someone where they drove their car to. 'Call us before you leave.' We didn't want them to be vulnerable, alone, in the dark, along a roadside.

I do remember one night when the kids went to a concert. The person they road with accidentally locked their keys in the car. They found a pay phone to call daddy, and he went out to Walnut Creek, a huge outside venue, and found the kids, all alone in the lot. We were quite upset that even the guards had gone home and left 'em there all alone at like 2:00 a.m. But the basic plan worked. If I didn't hear from one of my kids, I'd have my husband out looking in the car, and be on the phone to hospitals. thank goodness we never had to go through that. Although we did get our share of late night calls that began "everyone is okay *but*" accidents.

 

[ynotdivein]

Bumping transcription of GZ call. Link below will take you to this call.

Please note--in re-listening, I realized I missed the first seconds of GZ's call where he does mention the break-ins in the neighborhood.

GZ 911 call transcript part one. By yours truly, and my aged ears and I welcome and embrace all edits, corrections & improvements.

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/george-zimmerman-call-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/

GZ: This guy looks like he's up to no good, or on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around looking about."

D: This guy, is he white black or hispanic?

GZ: He looks black.

D: Did you see what he was wearing?

GZ: Yeah dark hoodie like a grey hoodie and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's (unclear) just staring. (crosstalk) at all the houses. And now he's just staring at me.

D: 1111 or one-eleven?

GZ: That's the clubhouse (crosstalk)

D: He's near the clubhouse right now?

GZ: Yeah now he's coming towards me

D: OK

GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah he's a black male

D: OK How old would you say he looks?

GZ: He's (unclear) late teens...

D: Late teens, ok

GZ: Mm-hm. Something's wrong with him. Yup. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I dunno what his deal is.

D: OK, just lemme know if he does anything else (Crosstalk) we got someone on the way, just let me know if he does anything else (crosstalk) yeah, we got 'em on the way just let me know if he does anything else.

GZ (1:38): OK. (pause) Gah, these *advertiser censored**holes, they always get away. (unclear background noise) When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in, and make a left. Actually, you go past the clubhouse.

D: OK, so it's on the left-hand side from the clubhouse?

GZ: No you go in (sigh) straight through the entrance, and then you make a left, uh yeah, don't turn and make a left, **** he's runnin'

D: He's running? Which way is he running?

GZ (2:10, sound of door opening/exiting car/seatbelt beeper going off?): Uh, down toward the uh other entrance to the neighborhood.

D: OK. Which entrance is that, that he's heading towards?

GZ 911 call transcript part two.

D: OK, which entrance is that, that he's heading towards?

GZ: The back entrance. (wind interference? begins to sound as if GZ is out of his vehicle IMO)

D: Are you following him?

GZ: Yep.

D (immediate on heels of "yep"): OK, we don't need you to do that.

GZ: OK

(wind)

D: Alright sir, what is your name?

GZ: George. (pause) (unclear--"he ran"?)

D: And George, what is your last name?

GZ: Zimmerman.

D: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?

GZ: (gives phone number)

D: Alright George, we do have 'em on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

GZ: Yeah.

D: Alright, where are you gonna meet with them at?

GZ: If they... come in through the uh gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and uh... straight past the clubhouse and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck...

(crosstalk)

D: OK, what address are you parked in front of?

GZ: Um, I don't know... it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.

D: OK, do you live in the area?

GZ: Yeah, yeah.

D: What's your apartment number?

GZ: It's a home, it's (gives number of address) oh cr@p I don't wanna give it all out (unclear)

D: Ok do you wanna just meet with them right by the mailboxes then?

GZ: Yeah, that's fine.

D: Alright George I'll let them know they're meeting with you out there then.

GZ: Could you have them, could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

D: OK. Yeah, that's no problem.

GZ: You need my number or you got it?

D: Yeah I got it (repeats number).

GZ: Yeah you got it.

D: OK no problem. I'll let 'em know to call you when they're in the area.

GZ: Thanks.

D: You're welcome.

[recording ends]

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/george-zimmerman-call-to-sanford-police/vGZq9/

 

[gracielee]

Who said he was walking aimlessly? He was walking down the street.

I listened to the description given my GZ on the 911 call. He described him as 'walking along in the rain, looking at all the various homes'......

 

[gracielee]

IMO the media is deplorable. I remember reading that TM left during half time of the NBA all star game. I just googled and multiple articles stated that. He was killed around 7:20ish? The all star game started at 7:30. ???? Why did they report this or do I have the time wrong he was shot?
http://www.nba.com/allstar2012/

That's pretty much what I heard too. Something to do with 'watching the game, and then going for snacks'. Does anyone know if it was raining when he left home? Or when he even left home? Again, just curious to try and figure out all the facts here. Seems like a long walk, in the rain, for a bag of skittles and a can of tea.

 

[Yoda]

Must read!!!!. If this is an accurate article then it gives a lot of information. I am very wary of media nowadays, but this reporter seems to have covered a lot of things!!!!
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/trayvon-martin-911-tapes-who-screamed-help-shot-rang-out

 

[Yoda]

That's pretty much what I heard too. Something to do with 'watching the game, and then going for snacks'. Does anyone know if it was raining when he left home? Or when he even left home? Again, just curious to try and figure out all the facts here. Seems like a long walk, in the rain, for a bag of skittles and a can of tea.

"Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said."
According to the orlando sentinal diagram I don't think that walk was 10 minutes. I hate when lawyers/families/media do this. This is exactly what makes me question everything that comes from him now. What made me look deeper into this case was the jr high photo the family released and then a few days later finding out he is 6'3". Why would they release that photo when there were many other more recent photos available? (now I am answering myself- possibly because that photo showed how they saw him-young, happy, vulnerable, handsome.)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/08/us-crime-florida-neighborhoodwatch-idUSBRE82709M20120308

 

[Yoda]

Must read!!!!. If this is an accurate article then it gives a lot of information. I am very wary of media nowadays, but this reporter seems to have covered a lot of things!!!!
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/trayvon-martin-911-tapes-who-screamed-help-shot-rang-out[/

"Police also said that Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, told them the voice pleading for help was not Trayvon. The family claims the police are lying, and pointed out that once the audio quality was cleaned up the father said that the voice did indeed belong to his son."

Confusing?? In attempt to do statement analysis like Peter hyatt. They say LE was lying when they said dad said it wasn't TM pleading for help, but then contradict themselves by saying when the audio was cleaned up dad said it was TM.

After reading this article, I can see better how LE did not feel they could disprove the self defense claim.