FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[jjenny]

I had read it early on. That he was handcuffed and questioned for a couple hours, and then was released to a medical facility for treatment of his injuries.

His injuries couldn't have been too serious then.

 

[annalia]

I don't know what he looks like now either, except doing the math he weighs at least 240. It's hard to believe that's lean muscle. I don't know what happened between Trayvon running off and then they were in physical combat, but I refuse to believe GZ caught up with Trayvon if Trayvon was trying to put distance between them.

There's really nothing to suggest GZ was doing more than just trying to keep close enough to keep an eye on where Trayvon was - so that he could report the new location to the cops when they entered the neighborhood - and I doubt his ability to overtake him if Trayvon didn't himself initiate contact.

This is awful, for sure. But this is the kind of thing that happens when you have two buttheads butting heads. Two people with good social skills could certainly have gotten through this without ending in physical conflict. I think all of us with teenage boys can remember when they encountered total *advertiser censored**holes and were able to act in a way that didn't result in them attacking.

This was a sad case of false bravado. And it is a case against concealed carry - because it's unlikely that GZ would have tried to follow Trayvon had he not had the confidence of carrying a loaded gun. He wouldn't have taken that risk. But then, had he followed him without a gun, he might have permanent brain damage or be dead. In fact, he might have permanent brain damage at this point anyway.

This is not a case of two people butting heads. It's a case of one black kid walking down the street bothering no one until someone who didn't like his "look" decided all on his own to pursue him.

Tray wasn't an attacker, GZ was.

JMHO

Jmho

 

[rossva]

BBM Or shows what the father knew to expect from Trayvon.

This is not true...the father stated when Trayvon didn't come home he first called the police to see if he had been arrested, as I mentioned in a previous post. Why would he do that first? Shows what he knew to expect in this town from the police.
Then when he found there was no arrest, he called the 'missing' dept. and was asked for a description of the boy. He said that after 12 hours a detective called/then visited and told him a boy with that description had been shot and killed and it might be his son.

Even if the father had heard what was going on with GZ, there is no reason at that point for him to think it concerned his son but just somebody being arrested in the area. Trayvon had no ID and was a John Doe at the morgue so police did not know who to contact.

 

[jjenny]

BBM Or shows what the father knew to expect from Trayvon.

Again, Trayvon didn't have a criminal record of any kind.

 

[Yoda]

:banghead: I understand and agree there are sooooooo many things GZ did that he should not have done. And I think it is awful that TM or anyone teen, man, woman, could lose their life out on a walk because someone thought they might be up to no good, but in the less then a year I have been a member here at ws I have never come across a forum before where only a few posters are discussing possible scenarios for why the event happened. And the odd thing is myself, and I think the few other posters who are analyzing the information, agree that the teen should not have been shot. We agree it was horrible, we agree it needs to be investigated. We can say GZ should not have gotten out of his car, but he did. So why? We do not know.
I guess I am writing this because for the past several pages I feel instead of discussing witness statements, info in the media and the 911 calls, I am having to defend myself or other posters for even asking questions. Jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

He was treated by EMTs. I'm sure they would have noticed the difference between blood smeared on an uninjured person vs. a person with a punched nose and bleeding from the back of his head.

BTW, if Tray wrestled the gun away from GZ, and shot him, I for one would believe it was in self-defense. At this point, the gun was out, it had been concealed, and suddenly one of the two of them were going to survive this combat. Whoever had control of the gun would be the one who lived through it. I would believe self-defense on Trayvon's part had he gotten the gun away from GZ. The same way I believe it on the part of GZ.

Well you would think the police would like to have had pictures of an injured man who just shot and killed a kid and is claiming self defense, no? That would make sense right? If they were truly doing an investigation from the very beginning, pictures should be available of his injuries? Or did they not start an investigation until they started getting heat?

 

[jjenny]

:banghead: I understand and agree there are sooooooo many things GZ did that he should not have done. And I think it is awful that TM or anyone teen, man, woman, could lose their life out on a walk because someone thought they might be up to no good, but in the less then a year I have been a member here at ws I have never come across a forum before where only a few posters are discussing possible scenarios for why the event happened. And the odd thing is myself, and I think the few other posters who are analyzing the information, agree that the teen should not have been shot. We agree it was horrible, we agree it needs to be investigated. We can say GZ should not have gotten out of his car, but he did. So why? We do not know.
I guess I am writing this because for the past several pages I feel instead of discussing witness statements, info in the media and the 911 calls, I am having to defend myself or other posters for even asking questions. Jmo

Why? I am guessing GZ got out of the car and followed Trayvon because GZ is a wannabe cop. He called 911 numerous times prior to this incident. Clearly there are a lot of things he finds "suspicious."

 

[Adrienne37]

I don't know what he looks like now either, except doing the math he weighs at least 240. It's hard to believe that's lean muscle. I don't know what happened between Trayvon running off and then they were in physical combat, but I refuse to believe GZ caught up with Trayvon if Trayvon was trying to put distance between them.

There's really nothing to suggest GZ was doing more than just trying to keep close enough to keep an eye on where Trayvon was - so that he could report the new location to the cops when they entered the neighborhood - and I doubt his ability to overtake him if Trayvon didn't himself initiate contact.

This is awful, for sure. But this is the kind of thing that happens when you have two buttheads butting heads. Two people with good social skills could certainly have gotten through this without ending in physical conflict. I think all of us with teenage boys can remember when they encountered total *advertiser censored**holes and were able to act in a way that didn't result in them attacking.

This was a sad case of false bravado. And it is a case against concealed carry - because it's unlikely that GZ would have tried to follow Trayvon had he not had the confidence of carrying a loaded gun. He wouldn't have taken that risk. But then, had he followed him without a gun, he might have permanent brain damage or be dead. In fact, he might have permanent brain damage at this point anyway.

Exactly how do you know that Trayvon was a butthead? Where's the proof of that? He's a butthead because he ran away from a guy carrying a gun? Is there a link in any of the articles posted that describes Trayvon as a "butthead?"



~JMO~

 

[Yoda]

Why? I am guessing GZ got out of the car and followed Trayvon because GZ is a wannabe cop. He called 911 numerous times prior to this incident. Clearly there are a lot of things he finds "suspicious."

Can you link to the msm that he called 911 numerous times. I understand the rest is your opinion.

 

[HiHater]

It's highly disrespectful to refer to a child victim as a "butthead", especially when there's nothing to suggest he did anything wrong. He was walking back from the store with candy and an iced tea. How much more innocent could that be?

To call Trayvon a butthead is to play into the same stereotypes that got all of this started in the first place. Unless you know him personally, how about you show a little respect for a 17 year old child who was shot dead under very questionable circumstances.

So what if he was suspended from school? Does that somehow mean that he deserved to be shot dead while running AWAY from a situation? These two "buttheads" did not butt heads at all, because one of them was avoiding, while the other was pursuing.

I guess to make things easier for the George Zimmerman's of the world, all gated communities should post fliers of the young black males who live in the neighborhood. That way, when they are spotted and appear to be "suspicious", they won't lose their lives.

REST IN PEACE Trayvon...

 

[HiHater]

Can you link to the msm that he called 911 numerous times. I understand the rest is your opinion.

I don't have a link, but he did call LE 46 times over a period of 12-14 months, from what I read...

 

[Yoda]

This is not a case of two people butting heads. It's a case of one black kid walking down the street bothering no one until someone who didn't like his "look" decided all on his own to pursue him.

Tray wasn't an attacker, GZ was.

JMHO

Jmho

Can you provide the link to the witness that saw GZ physically attack TM?

 

[Yoda]

It's highly disrespectful to refer to a child victim as a "butthead", especially when there's nothing to suggest he did anything wrong. He was walking back from the store with candy and an iced tea. How much more innocent could that be?

To call Trayvon a butthead is to play into the same stereotypes that got all of this started in the first place. Unless you know him personally, how about you show a little respect for a 17 year old child who was shot dead under very questionable circumstances.

So what if he was suspended from school? Does that somehow mean that he deserved to be shot dead while running AWAY from a situation? These two "buttheads" did not butt heads at all, because one of them was avoiding, while the other was pursuing.

I guess to make things easier for the George Zimmerman's of the world, all gated communities should post fliers of the young black males who live in the neighborhood. That way, when they are spotted and appear to be "suspicious", they won't lose their lives.

REST IN PEACE Trayvon...

TM did not live in the neighborhood. Race could have nothing to do. From my personal experience it does not matter what race a person is in our neighborhood if they are unfamiliar. My previous post on an earlier page explains pattern behavior of those that reside and frequent a neighborhood.

 

[HiHater]

He was treated by EMTs. I'm sure they would have noticed the difference between blood smeared on an uninjured person vs. a person with a punched nose and bleeding from the back of his head.

BTW, if Tray wrestled the gun away from GZ, and shot him, I for one would believe it was in self-defense. At this point, the gun was out, it had been concealed, and suddenly one of the two of them were going to survive this combat. Whoever had control of the gun would be the one who lived through it. I would believe self-defense on Trayvon's part had he gotten the gun away from GZ. The same way I believe it on the part of GZ.

That doesn't even make sense. These two men were not engaged in mutual combat. Only ONE of them had a reason to initiate any sort of altercation with the other. I'll give you a hint: the guy with the motive is the one who didn't want to let another *advertiser censored**hole get away.

Self-defense, again, is a claim for person who was being attacked. GZ says that something was wrong with Trayvon, he appeared to be on drugs, he was checking him out, he had something in his hand, he was reaching for his waistband, he was suspicious....so ask yourself, would YOU approach a person who seemed so "dangerous?"

 

[Velouria]

TM did not live in the neighborhood. Race could have nothing to do. From my personal experience it does not matter what race a person is in our neighborhood if they are unfamiliar. My previous post on an earlier page explains pattern behavior of those that reside and frequent a neighborhood.

And now TM doesn't live in any neighborhood.

If people went around shooting at every unfamiliar person in their neighborhood, there would be no one left.

 

[HiHater]

TM did not live in the neighborhood. Race could have nothing to do. From my personal experience it does not matter what race a person is in our neighborhood if they are unfamiliar. My previous post on an earlier page explains pattern behavior of those that reside and frequent a neighborhood.

I'm sorry, but I did not bring up Trayvon's race at all. It doesn't matter whether or not he lived in the neighborhood. He was where he was supposed to be, and he was not breaking any laws. Just because a person is unfamiliar does not give anyone the right to stalk, harass, chase, or follow them. That's what the police are for. They are trained and qualified.

Also, if you really want to know what a person is doing or why they are in your neighborhood, you could always just ASK them nicely.

 

[Adrienne37]

Trayvon's suspension from school has absolutely no bearing on this case whatsoever. What matters is that he was innocently walking home from the store with an iced tea and a bag of skittles when some "wanna be cop" decided he didn't like his looks so he chased him down, shot, and killed him. Trayvon is the victim here, WS is a victim friendly forum and to insinuate that Trayvon is anything less than a victim is just plain wrong. Trayvon didn't stand in front of this man and ask to be shot. Mr. Hotshot "wanna be cop" had no business pursuing him much less pursuing him with a loaded gun. Hell isn't hot enough for him. He's no better than Casey Anthony or any of the other murderers listed here on this forum.

 

[gracielee]

Why? I am guessing GZ got out of the car and followed Trayvon because GZ is a wannabe cop. He called 911 numerous times prior to this incident. Clearly there are a lot of things he finds "suspicious."

And I'm guessing GZ could just as easily got out of the car and followed TM because there was a problem with burglaries in the neighborhood. And a teenager, walking in the rain, appearing to not have any planned destination, could appear suspicious. I recall in his 911 call he made mention of those facts.

The day after people on our road discovered the thefts from their cars and the vandalism to their vehicles, a number of neighbors mentioned having seen two teenage boys, roaming up our road two nights prior. The sheriff's said they were probably casing the road, houses, etc.

 

[Yoda]

I'm sorry, but I did not bring up Trayvon's race at all. It doesn't matter whether or not he lived in the neighborhood. He was where he was supposed to be, and he was not breaking any laws. Just because a person is unfamiliar does not give anyone the right to stalk, harass, chase, or follow them. That's what the police are for. They are trained and qualified.

Also, if you really want to know what a person is doing or why they are in your neighborhood, you could always just ASK them nicely.

Agree agree agree. I am trying to determine how it got so far to TM being killed. I am not going to go be emotion and say because GZ wanted to kill someone, because GZ was racist. Just like I am not saying TM was taunting GZ because he approached the car and then took off running as if try to get me. How can justice be served if we don't ask questions. * and clarify even IF TM taunted GZ he still should not have been shot.

Hihater, did you listen to the tapes? I do not want to, but if you did I would like to ask you some questions.

 

[Yoda]

And I'm guessing GZ could just as easily got out of the car and followed TM because there was a problem with burglaries in the neighborhood. And a teenager, walking in the rain, appearing to not have any planned destination, could appear suspicious. I recall in his 911 call he made mention of those facts.

The day after people on our road discovered the thefts from their cars and the vandalism to their vehicles, a number of neighbors mentioned having seen two teenage boys, roaming up our road two nights prior. The sheriff's said they were probably casing the road, houses, etc.

I posted earlier that we live on the main road in our neighborhood and we definitely get the feel of the routine and flow of everyone. And yes, we and other neighbors do call 911 on unfamiliar people in our neighborhood and race plays no part in making the call.