FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[annalia]

All Trayvon had to defend himself with, from some unknown adult that was coming after him, was his hands. Or maybe he could have tried using the bag of skittles and bottle of iced tea to fight him off.

There would have been no issue had GZ just stayed in his car like he was told. Who cares what he thought, he had no right, he wasn't LE, he wasn't trained security, he sounds like a loose cannon, and a bigoted one at that. GZ tells the 911 operator that Trayzon looked like he was on drugs??? These *advertiser censored******* always get away?? That was his justification??

Did he identify himself as security, did he show a badge, was he wearing a security uniform?

The bottom line is, Trayvon had the right to walk down the road without being accosted. GZ had no right to go after him. The fact that Trayzon ran to get away shows that he wasn't looking to attack anyone.

JMHO

 

[gracielee]

I've been wondering why TM didn't have a cell phone. No reason, just curious. Most kids now days don't seem to go anywhere without their cell phone.

 

[jjenny]

I've been wondering why TM didn't have a cell phone. No reason, just curious. Most kids now days don't seem to go anywhere without their cell phone.

What makes you think he didn't have a cell phone?

 

[MicciStella]

I've been wondering why TM didn't have a cell phone. No reason, just curious. Most kids now days don't seem to go anywhere without their cell phone.

He had a cell phone ....

Crump also accused the Sanford Police Department of lying regarding Trayvon's cell phone. Police said they had to get a subpeona to get the phone, but Crump said police have had the cell phone the entire time, and the family never had the phone.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...s/articles/cfn/2012/3/16/travon_martin_shooti

Poor Trayvon was in a no win situation .... I just honestly deeply hope he will get justice... In my opinion GZ is lying about a whole lot... That is hard to prove since Trayvon can't speak for himself anymore.. And I still believe GZ new Trayvon is black before he called 911, even though he only said he looks black when asked from the dispatcher.....

And yes only my opinion..

Micci

 

[JeannaT]

He had a cell phone ....

Crump also accused the Sanford Police Department of lying regarding Trayvon's cell phone. Police said they had to get a subpeona to get the phone, but Crump said police have had the cell phone the entire time, and the family never had the phone.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...s/articles/cfn/2012/3/16/travon_martin_shooti

Poor Trayvon was in a no win situation .... I just honestly deeply hope he will get justice... In my opinion GZ is lying about a whole lot... That is hard to prove since Trayvon can't speak for himself anymore.. And I still believe GZ new Trayvon is black before he called 911, even though he only said he looks black when asked from the dispatcher.....

And yes only my opinion..

Micci

Maybe they weren't allowed to look through the cell phone without a warrant? I know that's been in the news here - a cop can have possession of the phone but can't use anything on it in an investigation without a warrant.

 

[Belinda]

Maybe Trayvon didn't have time to use the phone if GZ was chasing him.

 

[JeannaT]

Well using your logic, if you see a guy in car following you, you take off running, the guy comes after you, if you try to fight, the guy has a perfect right to shoot you. Isn't that so?

Yes. If he believes I'm about to kill him or maim him permanently and it actually turns out, unbeknownst to me that he was going to do something lawful, but I was pummeling him and maybe about to kill him, yes he has the right to defend his life.

I seriously, seriously doubt Trayvon ever felt in actual danger from this man. Looking at their appearances it seems VERY clear Trayvon never thought he couldn't move faster than GZ.

 

[Talina]

Yes. If he believes I'm about to kill him or maim him permanently and it actually turns out, unbeknownst to me that he was going to do something lawful, but I was pummeling him and maybe about to kill him, yes he has the right to defend his life.

I seriously, seriously doubt Trayvon ever felt in actual danger from this man. Looking at their appearances it seems VERY clear Trayvon never thought he couldn't move faster than GZ.

BBM

What I don't get is what gave Zimmerman the right to chase TM to begin with. I'm not aware that he had any right to chase him down like he did. Other than him feeling TM was acting suspicious as he said on the 911 call, he didn't even give any specifics exactly what he was doing that was suspicious. To get out of his car, chase him when TM had no idea who this person was or what he wanted is enough to make anyone run scared. I don't see TM as being the aggressor at all in that situation and if TM did turn and confront the person chasing him, seems to me that he had every right to do so and was doing so in self defense.

I am totally not seeing this as self defense by Zimmerman at all.

IMO

 

[Reader]

Trayvon Martin Neighborhood Watch Shooting: 911 Tapes Send Mom Crying From Room

http://abcnews.go.com/US/treyvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-shooting-911-tapes-send/story?id=15937881

Police recordings made the night a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain allegedly shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy outside his stepmother's home sent the boy's mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, "He killed my son," according to a family representative.
------

A week after ABC News uncovered questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting, including the alleged "correction" of at least one eyewitness' account, outrage that the shooter remains free is intensifying.

"It's surprising. It's shocking," said Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father. "It lets me know that justice is just not being served here. All we want is justice for our son. We're not asking for anything out of the ordinary."

In an interview with ABC News, Martin's mother, Fulton, tearfully said she only seeks an arrest.

"Let a judge and jury decide the rest," she added.

In the meantime, outrage is spreading across the Internet.

The Seminole County State Attorney's Office was so bombarded by emails demanding that it prosecute Zimmerman that its website had to be taken down for 45 minutes, according to a spokeswoman for the office.

One of several petitions for Zimmerman's arrest has garnered more than 250,000 signatures on a change.org site, and at one point signatures were pouring in at the rate of 10,000 an hour, according to the website.
-----

But after the shooting, a source inside the police department told ABC News that a narcotics detective and not a homicide detective first approached Zimmerman. The detective peppered Zimmerman with questions, the source said, rather than allow Zimmerman to tell his story. Questions can lead a witness, the source said.

Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.

The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness.
------

Trayvon Martin had no arrest record or disciplinary action for violence as a student in North Miami's Krop High School.

More at link....

 

[MicciStella]

Maybe they weren't allowed to look through the cell phone without a warrant? I know that's been in the news here - a cop can have possession of the phone but can't use anything on it in an investigation without a warrant.

Maybe... But then they could have said that they have it but can't look at it, and not saying the DON'T have it in the first place... Sorry but Sanford police doesn't come over very trustworthy in this whole case.....

Micci

 

[Belinda]

I encourage everyone to go to Change.org and sign the petition to have Trayvon's killer prosecuted.

 

[jjenny]

Yes. If he believes I'm about to kill him or maim him permanently and it actually turns out, unbeknownst to me that he was going to do something lawful, but I was pummeling him and maybe about to kill him, yes he has the right to defend his life.

I seriously, seriously doubt Trayvon ever felt in actual danger from this man. Looking at their appearances it seems VERY clear Trayvon never thought he couldn't move faster than GZ.

I don't see anything in GZ's older photo to suggest that whoever looked at him couldn't possibly be scared of him. And he probably doesn't look any better now.

 

[gracielee]

What makes you think he didn't have a cell phone?

I assumed if he had a cell phone, he could have been identified sooner. I have my home phone # programed into my cell for 'emergency number' just in case I'm in an accident or something and there is a need to reach my next of kin.

So is there a record of calls from TM's father to his cell phone in an effort to locate him? I'm curious as to why his father called the police to see if he'd been arrested in his initial effort to find him? If/when I couldn't locate one of my teens, it never occurred to me to phone the cops to see if they'd been arrested. Just seemed like a strange *first* move. I recall on occasion, getting in the car and following the route they were supposed to have taken if they were late getting home.

 

[Lovejac]

GZ's 911 call doesn't appear to support his idea of self-defense. The teenager went up to the car, looked at GZ and took off running (all of that based on GZ's call). So where is self-defense here? The teenager didn't go to GZ's car to get him out of the car, instead he took of running (so he didn't appear to have been in fighting mood).

What's that saying? "Fight or Flight"?

Trayvon took flight.

 

[athy]

This guy had no reason to get out of his car after being told by the LE to STAY PUT that they would take care of it. He ignored them and went and did what he wanted to. I could totally understand if while he called LE Tray attacked someone in front of him. If he had listened to LE and did as told Tray would still be alive and GZ would have been fine also.

 

[LolaMoon08]

This link is to the Orlando paper. It has a map showing 7/11, GZ's home, home TM was returning too.
It also has an interesting brief timeline that says GZ was held at gunpoint when police arrived and was handcuffed. I hadn't read that anywhere else.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...n-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic

Yeah, okay!

 

[LolaMoon08]

The way the injuries were being described that GZ had, and the fact that GZ was on the ground and Tray was on top of him, (witness statements and twigs on GZ's back) that's enough for me to believe self-defense as it has been posted in this thread under Florida law.

About one punch to the head is all I would tolerate if I were carrying a gun.

Where are the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries? For all I know, it could be Tray's blood all over him? We haven't even heard if Tray had any other injuries besides the gunshot? We don't even know how far away Zimmerman was from Tray when the gun was fired?

You better believe that if that was Zimmerman screaming it was because they were wrestling over that gun because he confronted Tray with that gun! Had Tray gotten the upper hand and was the one who shot Zimmerman (which would be why Zimmerman would be screaming if that was him), even though it would have been in real self defense, he would be in jail waiting for his murder trial. Police wouldn't have simply believed Tray shot this man in self defense and you know that.

 

[JeannaT]

I don't see anything in GZ's older photo to suggest that whoever looked at him couldn't possibly be scared of him. And he probably doesn't look any better now.

I don't know what he looks like now either, except doing the math he weighs at least 240. It's hard to believe that's lean muscle. I don't know what happened between Trayvon running off and then they were in physical combat, but I refuse to believe GZ caught up with Trayvon if Trayvon was trying to put distance between them.

There's really nothing to suggest GZ was doing more than just trying to keep close enough to keep an eye on where Trayvon was - so that he could report the new location to the cops when they entered the neighborhood - and I doubt his ability to overtake him if Trayvon didn't himself initiate contact.

This is awful, for sure. But this is the kind of thing that happens when you have two buttheads butting heads. Two people with good social skills could certainly have gotten through this without ending in physical conflict. I think all of us with teenage boys can remember when they encountered total *advertiser censored**holes and were able to act in a way that didn't result in them attacking.

This was a sad case of false bravado. And it is a case against concealed carry - because it's unlikely that GZ would have tried to follow Trayvon had he not had the confidence of carrying a loaded gun. He wouldn't have taken that risk. But then, had he followed him without a gun, he might have permanent brain damage or be dead. In fact, he might have permanent brain damage at this point anyway.

 

[JeannaT]

Where are the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries? For all I know, it could be Tray's blood all over him? We haven't even heard if Tray had any other injuries besides the gunshot? We don't even know how far away Zimmerman was from Tray when the gun was fired?

You better believe that if that was Zimmerman screaming it was because they were wrestling over that gun because he confronted Tray with that gun! Had Tray gotten the upper hand and was the one who shot Zimmerman (which would be why Zimmerman would be screaming if that was him), even though it would have been in real self defense, he would be in jail waiting for his murder trial. Police wouldn't have simply believed Tray shot this man in self defense and you know that.

He was treated by EMTs. I'm sure they would have noticed the difference between blood smeared on an uninjured person vs. a person with a punched nose and bleeding from the back of his head.

BTW, if Tray wrestled the gun away from GZ, and shot him, I for one would believe it was in self-defense. At this point, the gun was out, it had been concealed, and suddenly one of the two of them were going to survive this combat. Whoever had control of the gun would be the one who lived through it. I would believe self-defense on Trayvon's part had he gotten the gun away from GZ. The same way I believe it on the part of GZ.

 

[JeannaT]

This link is to the Orlando paper. It has a map showing 7/11, GZ's home, home TM was returning too.
It also has an interesting brief timeline that says GZ was held at gunpoint when police arrived and was handcuffed. I hadn't read that anywhere else.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...n-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic

I had read it early on. That he was handcuffed and questioned for a couple hours, and then was released to a medical facility for treatment of his injuries.