FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[CathyinTexas]

None of us know any of these things, except in fact they did demand his gun and he willingly gave it to them.

We don't know what testing was done for drugs or alcohol. The test surely could have been done. Why would his car need to be searched? I don't think there is anyone at all who thinks the car was involved in this.

Judge Alex went over the things that weren't done. In essence they did not do an investigation. He specifically said they didn't test him for drugs or alcohol.

 

[deelytful1]

I KNOW he was not humble and friendly because his girlfriend has said he was the first to engage in a verbal discussion, and it wasn't friendly.

I believe her, with what she said happened. He <modsnip> why are you following me, and GZ answered what are you doing here.

And then there was physical combat.

<modsnip>

Maybe we should all teach society civility. Just be civil. I am actually teaching my kids that. Lead with a smile and civility.

BTW, internet polling petitions mean zero to anyone. It takes less than 5 seconds to click. As a member of a couple of political action committees, we don't use internet click to agree polls, because it means nothing. Someone who is willing to come to the protests, as they are doing, means a LOT, or someone who picks up the phone and calls or sends a letter also means a lot. People who are sitting in their chairs clicking on a poll means zero.

Check out the protest in Sanford tonight! Apparently lots of people are taking "action" Now let's see if our government will listen or if they'll sweep this under the rug
If they do? I think people are going to literally take "action" IMO

 

[jjenny]

Is GZ Caucasian or Hispanic? He looks like he could be Hispanic to me.

He is Hispanic/Caucasian. I believe his father is Caucasian and mother Hispanic.

 

[HiHater]

As Dr. Fessel pointed out that the report says offenses 01 and victims 00, I also notice that it says Drug Related: NO, Alcohol Related: NO.

How did the person filling out that form know that, without giving the only living person at the scene a drug or alcohol test?

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but it makes me go "hmmmm"...

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[IzzyBlanche]

respectfully snipped



This is the reason that I am suspicious, Lee had no problem stating that his injuries were indicative, and once the 911 tapes were released and he came under the firestorm of criticism, I do not see him having the evidence of horrific injuries that would have indicated a true fight for your life struggle, injuries that would have indicated that GZ had a real reason to fear for his life, and just remaining mute about it.

I still find it difficult to understand that the police did not thoroughly document those injuries with photographs, medical reports, as well as blood on GZ's hands, the condition of his hands, bruised knuckles, skin under fingernails, blood on clothes ect. If they had done that, and released it so that the people who are protesting could see that there was actual evidence then the protesting would stop....we would understand.

Trayvon's family would understand, would still not like it, would still be grieving for their son but they would at least understand where the decision that this was self defense came from. IMO, JMHO and stuff.

You would think that if even they thoroughly believed GZ's story, they would have documented that evidence for him as a defense just in case a wrongful death suit was filed later.

 

[HiHater]

[Snipped to points I am addressing]

Our President's mother was white. Therefore he is not a black president, he is a (for lack of a better term) half-black president. That means he is also half-white.

So he is just as much white as black, no? Yet he's always referred to as black. Never white. Never even multiracial, insofar as I can recall.

Yes, racism still goes on.

I think that has a lot to do with how he identifies himself. Like Halle Berry...her mother (who is white) taught her that she is black, because that's how the world would see her. The multi-racial thing is sticky, but the police report in this case does say that George Zimmerman is white. Whether he told the police that, or they assumed it, is anybody's guess.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I say the powder burns from the gun are right on the back of Martin's hoodie. IMO

 

[annalia]

As Dr. Fessel pointed out that the report says offenses 01 and victims 00, I also notice that it says Drug Related: NO, Alcohol Related: NO.

How did the person filling out that form know that, without giving the only living person at the scene a drug or alcohol test?

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but it makes me go "hmmmm"...

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

I noticed that too about the drugs/alcohol and wondered about that too.

Also, it's very strange that the officer notes that GZ had grass stains, and blood on his nose and back of his head but he doesn't note anything about blood elsewhere on his body.

It can't be possible that if Tray was on him, attacking him, then GZ pulls out his gun and shoots him, that GZ wouldn't be covered in blood. And then police don't make any note of that?

 

[Sensei]

Judge Alex went over the things that weren't done. In essence they did not do an investigation. He specifically said they didn't test him for drugs or alcohol.

Those points have been brought forward in a lot of the talking head shows.

On Vinnie P. One of the detectives that he had said that the test for drugs and alcohol is SOP anytime someone shoot another person unarmed or not.

Judge Alex said that GZ's car should have been searched and that there should have been fingerprints.

JVM mentioned on her show that GZ's clothes should have been collected for examination of gsr, and stippling patterns, and that they should have documented and diagramed exactly where the skittles, the tea, the earbud and the Iphone were in relation to TM's body

One homicide dectective that I don't recall his name or the show made a huge deal out of the fact that the neighborhood should have been comprehensively canvassed and even people several streets away questioned about missing teens ect. to find out who he was and why he was there if possible.

Much ado has been made about the fact that they did NOT get a subpeona and get those phone logs in a timely manner and look to see who Trayvon was on the phone with if anyone.

A ballistics expert mentioned that they needed to track the trajectory of the bullet and other things.

These are just a few of the different things that the "tv experts" are claiming would have resolved the vast majority of the questions.

If these things were done and we just don't know about them "YET" then great, but they leave you with the impression that they are well aware that these things simply were not done at all...I guess we'll see.

 

[flourish]

so that makes your statement true?

*snipped for emphasis*

I'm saying that I have the appropriate education in the appropriate field of study to state with certainty that a 17-year old is not considered developmentally to be adult. Disagreeing with that doesn't make it become false.

For pete's sake. I really don't think I've been unclear.

 

[Sensei]

As Dr. Fessel pointed out that the report says offenses 01 and victims 00, I also notice that it says Drug Related: NO, Alcohol Related: NO.

How did the person filling out that form know that, without giving the only living person at the scene a drug or alcohol test?

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but it makes me go "hmmmm"...

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

That's another one that one of the experts made a huge deal out of, it seems that they immediately (and I am not sure if this means that the autopsey is done and over) did a drug and alcohol test on the deceased but simply did not see the need to do one on the person who admits to being the shooter, the "expert" said that lapse made him speechless...

 

[gitana1]

~Respectfully snipped~

And there is proof of this in the many articles we have been reading. A white man took it upon himself to beat up a homeless black man. It was caught on VIDEO and yet the police failed to act. Finally, after enough citizen outrage (nothing like we are seeing here), the police arrested the white man. The police chief lost his job over it. So... who got his job? None other than the current Police Chief Lee. Now.... you would think, given these circumstance, PC Lee would be very much aware of this biased position of his staff and that PC Lee would be on the look out any future behavior that would be suspect.

You would think that PC Lee would have reviewed that 911 tape and would have locked GZ up because there is no self-defense when you are the agressor - not even under the Stand Your Ground Statute that this LE Dept. is trying to hide behind. But no... what PC Lee did was pat his officers on the back, give them permission to use the Statute as an excuse for inaction and then he stood back and waited for it all to go away.

So who is going to lose their job now? PC Lee - they are already asking him to step down.

I think maybe PC Lee just didn't get it... just didn't understand how his predecessor lost his job. It just wasn't a wake up call for him. And that is sad... on all kinds of levels.

Salem

By the way, Salem, know what happened to that guy who was caught on video sucker punching a black guy in the back of the head? He got probation.

And in the other killing of an unarmed black kid in the area, Travares McGill in 2005, this time by two white security guards, their charges were dismissed.

Why is it we still do not know what the point of entry of the bullet was that killed Trayvon. We should know that by now! I am suspicious that this information is being withheld for obvious reasons!

Excellent question. Do Trayvon's parents know? They must, right? A few sources are saying he was shot in the chest, though:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...outcry-trayvon-martin-death-article-1.1049155

Is GZ Caucasian or Hispanic? He looks like he could be Hispanic to me.

He's half. But many Hispanics are Caucasian. Hispanic is an ethnicity not a racial designation. So some are white, some black and some with Indian blood.

[Snipped to points I am addressing]

Our President's mother was white. Therefore he is not a black president, he is a (for lack of a better term) half-black president. That means he is also half-white.

So he is just as much white as black, no? Yet he's always referred to as black. Never white. Never even multiracial, insofar as I can recall.

Yes, racism still goes on.

Yeah, I've heard that repeatedly, too. We have a black president so there must not be any more racism. Let's tell that to James C. Anderson who was driven over by a truck and beaten in June last year by some thugs who conspired to go "mess with some n!&&ers" and who shouted "white power" as they beat him. Oh, that's right. We can't because Mr. Anderson is dead.

Yes, we have a black president but only 50% of the country voted for him. Certainly some among the other 50% objected to him because of his race.

 

[deelytful1]

I absolutely hate Rick Scott but he scored points with me today by taking the case out of the hands of the SA to have a congressional hearing. Now if he'd only have someone arrest GZ!!
Figures it was Jeb Bush that signed the bill into law...sigh. What? Everyone saw this coming except for the NRA who supports gun retailers and the politicians who need their vote?
But, I digress... Justice for Trayvon!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I noticed that too about the drugs/alcohol and wondered about that too.

Also, it's very strange that the officer notes that GZ had grass stains, and blood on his nose and back of his head but he doesn't note anything about blood elsewhere on his body.

It can't be possible that if Tray was on him, attacking him, then GZ pulls out his gun and shoots him, that GZ wouldn't be covered in blood. And then police don't make any note of that?

He slurred words while talking to the dispatcher. I bet is he was still slurring his words.

Funny how the cop mentions in that report done that night that he remembers the guy saying he was yelling asking people for help and nobody would help him. All the words zimmerman probably said that night and the cop knows that quote is important and puts it in his report.

 

[lillygator]

*snipped for emphasis*

I'm saying that I have the appropriate education in the appropriate field of study to state with certainty that a 17-year old is not considered developmentally to be adult. Disagreeing with that doesn't make it become false.

For pete's sake. I really don't think I've been unclear.

does that mean ALL 17 year olds?

at 17, I was moved out, in college and definitely an adult.

eta: and in today's day and age, kids are growing up much faster.

 

[flourish]

does that mean ALL 17 year olds?

at 17, I was moved out, in college and definitely an adult.

*Sigh*

You were still legally and developmentally considered a child. That is not a slight on your level of responsibility and maturity. I'm done arguing about this. Google is your friend and could give you plenty of information on the subject (try "late adolescence").

 

[gitana1]

I heard some legal expert stating that ballistics will tell us if the gun was close to Trayvon's skin or clothing when fired and that could tell us a lot about what happened when he was shot. Might be important.

But for me, it would not change things much. If Zimmerman accosted this teenager at night and pushed him and Trayvon fought back, he still can't claim self defense. And how does a 140 pound kid get the best of a 240 pound man anyhow?

 

[Sensei]

my bolding

And the officer in that case is the same officer there that night in Tray's case.

It would be interesting to know if he was the one that tried to change the witnesses statements.

JMHO

That was another thing that was mentioned by several people tonight, the Officer who responded to the scene after the police made the initial discovery was NOT a homicide detective he was a narcotics officer....which may explain why the deceased was so immediately tested for drugs and alcohol, you know when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail, except that they didn't test GZ which considering the circumstances I find to be extremely odd.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I think that has a lot to do with how he identifies himself.

You may be right. I don't know, I do not recall any instances of him self-identifying as black. But I don't want to take the thread off topic any further, so I will look for myself. Thank you.

 

[octobermoon]

I need to leave this thread. But will say this.. A grown man in a truck, carrying a gun followed a teenager who he thought was suspicious in the rain. Grown armed man called police and was told to stop following. Grown man, neighborhood watchman, ignored advice and chased down a teenager and killed him in cold blood. JMO IMO MOO Left his vehicle and chased down a kid with ice tea, skittles, and talking to his lady love. Why?

IMO JMO MOO