FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[LambChop]

Apologies if these have been posted but I thought I'd let you know this crime is making international headlines as well:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...mar/22/trayvon-martin-shot-heard-around-world
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journali...-killing-Sanford-police-chief-steps-down.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17479308

Incidentally I don't believe race is the sole reason why so many are outraged (the UK has serious issues in racial discrimination but most of the comments are in support of Trayvon) but rather the fact that a child is the victim. MOO

Thank you for your post. This is so true as some adults do consider that age group "punk kids" regardless of the race. My grandson was a victim of a neighbor who kept insisting he was speeding and driving recklessly up the road. This neighbor called a total of 23 times in less than 3 months at one point until police told him my grandson had moved in with his Dad in another town. Time after time the neighbor was disproved by other neighbors who happened to be driving behind my grandson at the time and they verified he was not. This neighbor would give police a time he saw my grandson and he was working 20 miles away during that timeframe. He'd give wrong license numbers and car descriptions (my grandson would buy a junk, fix it up and then sell it and get another car) so the description rarely matched the car he was reporting. The man confronted my grandson while he was getting the mail and started to punch my grandson in the face when my grandson said, "I'm seventeen, I wouldn't do that if I were you" as he back out of the line of his aim (the man was drunk at the time). This man lived at the other end of the street. They even posted a patrol car with a radar gun at the end of my road (dead end) to catch him speeding and my grandson drove right by without them stopping him. Police finally put an end to it when the man tried to run him down with his car. I asked the police why they never arrested the man when we proved the neighbor was giving false reports and my answer was "we have a lot of problems with young people." What about drunk and disorderly neighbors????? FYI the neighbor and my grandson are both white. jmo

 

[songline]

I guess you do not live in Florida. Looks to me you can shoot them there. All you have to say is that you were scared of them. In fact you do not have to catch them even in the act. Looking suspicious to you is good enough in Fl..Of course regular folks like us would not shoot a person for that but GZ types would.

BBM
Well it's Bush state,

 

[Adrienne37]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's and interview w/ the volunteer coordinator for Sanford PD who set up the watch program for the gated community. I feel bad for her.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

Thanks for the article. One part I found very interesting....

In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”

 

[Sensei]

And it can't be ignored that had Tray been on top of GZ and GZ shot him, then GZ would have been covered in Tray's blood. Especially shooting him in the chest.

Why nothing noted on the police report about any blood anywhere but his nose and back of head? Why nothing noted about checking GZ to see if blood was due to an injury or if it was Tray's blood on him due to being shot at such close range?

JMHO

That disturbs me as well, I am an er nurse, and I (thankfully don't see them often) but I have seen penetrating chest wounds and there should have been blood, My experience tell me there should have been blood that would be noted if they were in very close proximity, and if they weren't what does that do to his self defense claim? If there was arterial damage it might have been more than if the bullet hit his heart directly, and some would still reside in the chest cavity, but still, there should have been blood on GZ if there was in fact a struggle close up....Yet they didn't take his clothes, no blood is mentioned, just very troubling to me. And the Police department is just NOT attempting to bring out anything to support their position which leads me to believe that it just wasn't there but for some reason they didn't worry about it.

Somthing here just isn't right, IMO, JMHO and stuff.
I just really don't know

 

[jjenny]

This is a tough case... IMHO as the neighbor said Zimmerman had a FED UP case due to 8 robberies in 15 months...that is a robbery every other month.
When he saw Tayron whom he did not recognize as part of the community with a hoody up (yes it was raining) looking like he may be hiding he followed him. FINE…I understand it up to here.
What I do not understand is when Zimmerman did call into the police, why didn’t they come and take over? When they told him to leave it alone, why did he keep persisting?

Because it takes time for police to show up. They don't have an instant teleportation device.

 

[songline]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but it's and interview w/ the volunteer coordinator for Sanford PD who set up the watch program for the gated community. I feel bad for her.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

SNIP from your article....
Last August, Wendy Dorival got a call about setting up a local neighborhood watch. As the volunteer coordinator for the Police Department here, she gets such calls regularly, and the city already had at least 10 active watch groups. So she thought nothing of this call, from George Zimmerman.

Seems he was pro-active in wanting to help solve a neighborhood problem...
but - IMHO - they need to be checked - not every volunteer is a proper fit.

She said:
"Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,”
"Using a gun in the neighborhood watch role would be out of the question, she said in an interview".

Seems to me he did it his way... there were rules in place.

 

[jjenny]

Didn't GZ say 'he's on drugs or something' to 911? Or was it just 'somethings wrong with him'? (I need to go back and listen and need more coffee

Wondering if this is why a narcotics officer was dispatched to the scene.

Thanks,

wm

GZ did claim that "suspicious" person looks to be on drugs in his 911 call so that could be why narcotics officer was dispatched.

 

[lowens1975]

This is a tough case... IMHO as the neighbor said Zimmerman had a FED UP case due to 8 robberies in 15 months...that is a robbery every other month.
When he saw Tayron whom he did not recognize as part of the community with a hoody up (yes it was raining) looking like he may be hiding he followed him. FINE…I understand it up to here.
What I do not understand is when Zimmerman did call into the police, why didn’t they come and take over? When they told him to leave it alone, why did he keep persisting?

If Zimmerman felt 'threatened' why did he call the NON emergency number instead of 911? Police have their own 'priority codes' and threat level is assessed and assigned at the time of the call. They wouldn't prioritize a 'take a report' call over a 'shots fired' call. Calling a non emergency number tells me that there was no immediate threat to Zimmerman of physical harm. The dispatcher told him she was dispatching a unit...all he had to do was wait for it. He then asked if he should follow Trayvon and the dispatcher told him "We don't need for you to do that". Zimmerman decided right then and there to take things into his own hands. I personally think he wanted an 'atta boy' from the real cops for 'catching' someone at something that they had previously failed to do.

 

[Isabelle]

Perhaps in his mind GZ thought by doing his 'good' deed he might have a shot at the police academy! (no pun intended)

 

[Adrienne37]

Trayvon's girlfriend has been told that the Florida State Attorney's Office has prepared a subpoena for her to appear in front of the grand jury. She has hired a lawyer to advise her and make sure that her rights are protected. Her attorney has told prosecutors that she is ready to appear and is looking forward to telling the grand jury what really happened on February 26," a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...lphone-girlfriend-subpoena-grand-jury-florida

 

[songline]

We as a society we need this outrage anytime a child is killed. No matter what type of crime black on black, white on black, brown
on white. I live in Chicago where there were more killings on the street than in Afghanistan this past weekend. I hate to see this turn into a color thing then just a wrong thing.

WRONG INDEED.

but then Al Sharpton would not have a job.

 

[Sensei]

Because it takes time for police to show up. They don't have an instant teleportation device.

And if he had simply watched and waited until they actually did show up, then he would have known which house to send them to, or where the suspicious person was....

he didn't need an instant teleportation device since Trayvon Martin was NOT in the act of committing ANY CRIME...he didn't need them there right that second since nobody was committing an armed robbery, no one was being mugged, no one was being treatened except Trayvon....

 

[lowens1975]

Because it takes time for police to show up. They don't have an instant teleportation device.

:floorlaugh: No, they don't, but they are judged by their 'response time'.

 

[songline]

I haven't commented a lot on the threads about this case, but have read all of the posts.

There is nothing worse than bad LE, IMO. My late husband was retired LE after a 21 year career. He spent many years as the Night Commander of a large department and worked closely with all the rookies. His best advice to these new rookies was to become colorblind when you put your uniform on, to always carry your charge code book, and make comprehensive notes that you will be able to correctly decipher later when you make your report. He said to be an example to your community.

Were he alive today, he would be extremely angry over this so-called investigation. I am also. It is not up to the onscene officers to interpret statutes of law, but to use your charge codes. This was clearly not a self defense shooting, IMO.

GZ was taken to the station, and should have been questioned for as many hours as was necessary, IMO. Why didn't SPD keep GZ at the station until all of the neighbors and witnesses were interviewed? Why did LE not listen to all of the 911 calls before letting GZ leave? Had investigators listened to GZ's 911 call, it would have to have been clear to them that GZ did leave the safety of his vehicle and pursue Trayvon Martin, thereby making him the aggressor. It would have been clear to the investigators that dispatch asked GZ if he was following him (him being Trayvon), and GZ said yes, then the dispatcher told GZ that they did not need him to do that. There you are right there. GZ should have been arrested and charged with negligent homicide at the very least, IMO. Then the charges could/should be upgraded later.

Every LE involved that night should have been placed on administrative leave, IMO, then fired. This was no investigation by the book. The Chief should have been fired rather than let him take a voluntary leave. He is the leader and hoped it would just go away. It won't, and it shouldn't.

Believe me, there are some really good and honorable LE officers out there. The good ones feel just as we do about the bad ones.

There! I feel better having had my say about this. I am outraged as well as heartbroken over all of this. Trayvon's death was willful murder on the part of GZ, IMO.

My thoughts and prayers are with Trayvon's family and friends. I am heartbroken for them and Trayvon's little brother. They will forever be traumatized by this senseless act of viiolence and murder.

*All of the above is JMO.

The police department should be on trial more often then we know.God bless Tyron's parents for not taking a back seat.
Al Sharpton - you did your job now go home.
Lets just get Justice for Tyron.

 

[Velouria]

IMO there are just as many people using reverse racism to assume because Trayvon was black, he couldn't have been agressive, and did absolutely nothing to instigate/escalate the encounter.

Reverse racism? Well, let's take a look at the background of the individuals involved, shall we?

Which one had a history of battery on an officer and resisting arrest?

Which one had a history of domestic violence?

Which one was following the other, without identifying himself as a member of neighborhood watch?

Hint: It wasn't Trayvon Martin.

No one is simply assuming here - it's called looking at the facts and drawing logical conclusions.

 

[LambChop]

I just can not understand why GZ would think that Trayvon had a gun unless he just plain lied. Would it not be more logical that Trayvon had it ready prior to the struggle since he was being followed. It just does not add up. Why fight if you have a gun. Tray only had his fists, skittles and can of Arizona iced tea and GZ knew that.
It would be more logical that GZ just got mad because Tray bopped him one on the nose and GZ shot him in revenge. The ballistics and entry trajectory are very crucial in the investigation IMO.

I'm just saying that in GZ's mind we know he considered Tray suspicious so along that line it would not be a stretch to believe he might have thought that the bulge in Tray's pocket was a gun. To me GZ was negligent and this is considered a homocide. When it was clear TM was not doing anything other than walking back from the store LE should have charged GZ with negligent homocide at the very least.

I wonder how people would feel if GZ discharged his weapon at TM, missed and the bullet went into a home and killed a child. There is a reason why LE just does not shoot unless they absolutely have to and they wrestle people to the ground everyday without shooting them. If that had been my son I'd be headed to the FBI, too. Something is just not right with this case. jmo

 

[songline]

Because it takes time for police to show up. They don't have an instant teleportation device.

TRUE they cant teleport - but when they show up they seem to come
in droves like 5-6 cars, so maybe they could have sent one.

They also test a dead boy - DNA - Drugs.
but they do not test a shooter :twocents:
You do not need any teleportation devises to do the job.

LE faltered again. YES again.
No wonder the family had to call Al sharpton to the rescue - they want answers.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Thanks for the article. One part I found very interesting....

In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”

I found that interesting also Adrienne. There was lot's of good info in that article that helped me to understand NW training and how the program works.

It is a shame the the NW program is under scrutiny due to the actions of one man. I also feel for this volunteer who trained the neighborhood and is now getting 'hate mail'. The tentacles of GZ's actions are far reaching, IMO. Of course, this whole inking mess could have been avoided if the PD had not made a rush to judgement. MOO

wm

 

[Velouria]

Trayvon's girlfriend has been told that the Florida State Attorney's Office has prepared a subpoena for her to appear in front of the grand jury. She has hired a lawyer to advise her and make sure that her rights are protected. Her attorney has told prosecutors that she is ready to appear and is looking forward to telling the grand jury what really happened on February 26," a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...lphone-girlfriend-subpoena-grand-jury-florida

So much for the claims that she would ONLY speak to the attorney.

 

[LambChop]

:floorlaugh: No, they don't, but they are judged by their 'response time'.

Didn't they say GZ called the non-emergency line? Once those 911 calls and reports of a shot fired started rolling in all available LE drop what they are doing and rush to the scene. GZ was instructed to wait for a patrol car and he did not listen. Wasn't their response to a shot fired less than one minute? jmo