FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[curl_in_progress]

I understand, I watched them rip into Sanford PD as well and enumerate everything that should have been done before a determination was made that simply wasn't, but the one that had me floored, was JVM with the assertion that the girlfriend on the phone, both called police that night and again later the parents of the girl called Sanford PD to tell them she was on the phone with Trayvon while the incident was taking place and they never called them back

That seems to be a theme with Sanford PD, several of the witnesses that they didn't talk to called and they never called them back, and other witnesses wanting to make sure their statement was accurate called and they never called them back....maybe what Sanford PD needs is a good receptionist to take phone messages :>( IMO JMHO and stuff

This could be a stretch, but, I think she actually heard the entire thing. Including when he was shot. I think they just aren't realeasing that info yet. While it is possible for the call to have dropped if Tray was pushed or a fight started, I'm not convinced just yet. It was raining and his phone was probably in his pocket to keep it from getting wet. The cord of the earbud under his hoodie. Maybe that's what GZ was doing over TM's body if he was frisking him for weapons after he was shot. Disconnecting a phone call. Mary C. said that they had to ask GZ what was going on 3 times before he said call the police. Each time he was asked he just looked back without responding to continue doing something on Tray's body.

All speculation. All my opinion.

 

[belle3]

Unfortunately, i really cant take anything in that police report as evidence or proof of anything. Darn it! Quick question that i havent seen the answer to. Where was the gun shot wound? Anyone know?

 

[Boytwnmom]

him, obviously as has been reported and stated in the 911 call. I'm not just talking about the 911 calls but the witnesses statements. People calling 911 don't go into details-they are reporting in the minute what's happening. The callers were later interviewed as witnesses, whose statements were initially ignored or attempted to be altered by police were about the boy screaming.

They heard the desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.

All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy, and believe the sequence of sounds shatters the notion that Trayvon was killed in self-defense.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446/trayvon-martin-case.html

But so many don't want to find anything wrong with this killing. I guess "What's the big deal" He was, after all walking in a hoodie while black. Who cares what the witnesses say?

“This was not self-defense,” Cutcher said. “We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldn’t have stopped. If you’re hurting, you’re hurting.”

...they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.

Much better to believe the killer, right? Isn't that what we always do? When a child is killed we look at what it was that caused the poor adult to kill him. Oh wait, I guess we don't usually do that. But here the boy was black and wearing a hoodie.

The parents knew the sounds of their child screaming:

Tracy Martin said the calls paint a stark picture of what were his son's final moments.
"He was yelling for help, and no one could help him. He saw his life being taken away from him," Tracy Martin said.

Read more here: http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/03/...#storylink=cpy

March 16: Police recordings made the night Zimmerman allegedly shot and killed Martin sent the boy’s mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, “He killed my son,” a family representative tells ABC News.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...ine-of-events/

You doubt the history of GZ and assuming black boys were criminals? I posted links and articles last night but I guess it bears repeating.

The white neighborhood watch volunteer in Florida whose fatal shooting of an unarmed black teen has sparked outrage appeared to be fixated on young black males, according to a report in The Miami Herald.

According to the Herald, Zimmerman would often go door-to-door in the neighborhood, warning residents to be careful of young black males

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.T2vOlRFjDHQ
This evidence of his propensity to target black youth is based not only upon the calls they still had. He made many more calls but they are not retained (he called 46 times since 1/2011), but also the e-mails he sent around

“I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” he said. “Listen, you even hear me say it: ‘A black guy did this. A black guy did that.’ So I thought, ‘Let me sit in the house. I don’t want anyone chasing me.’ ”Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...#storylink=cpy

and the anecdotes I've seen have him relating cations only about black boys:

“Just two weeks before this shooting, George called me at my girlfriend’s house to say he saw some black guy doing surveillance at my house, because I had a left a window open,”.http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...-habitual.html

According to the Herald, Zimmerman would often go door-to-door in the neighborhood, warning residents to be careful of young black males.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...#storylink=cpy

It seems pretty clear to me and most other people I have encountered that Zimmermans conclusion that Treyvon was "up to no good" and dangerous was based in large part on his being a young black male. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the facts are the facts and I haven't seen any indications he ever warned his neighbors about young blond guys or anything. As I white person I don't like to be accused of racism or to have the actions of all white people assumed to be based on racism. But when it exists I think it demands recognition.

BEM: Who told GZ not to shoot? I haven't seen this anywhere.
BEM2: I'm not sure how the family would know who was screaming? I've listened to all the 911 calls and none of the callers could say who was screaming, but I haven't read the actual eyewitness statements that say they "knew" it was Trayvon screaming for help - would you mind telling me where to find those? TIA


With comments like the one above about who is lying - black or white, it becomes more and more about race and less about what really happened, which is what should be established first, IMO



This is stated as fact - please, where is the background on GZ showing he is racist and what his favorite "guises" are. TIA
.

 

[songline]

My question is, would Al Sharpton have found it necessary to intervene, or whether GZ would have found TM suspicious in the first place had he been a white child?

My guess is probably not.

Excuse me - I will only say this once - and I am of a mixed family. Not interested in a fight but I have to say it….
YES MLK did a huge job to help people come together and stop the ugly divide.
And many great things happened because of him, and it is true that fight is still going on. BOTH WAYS…

There are many prejudice crimes against white people too, many racial divides there too.
WHY do black people need an Al Shrpton to create a riot?
White people do not have an Al Sharpton to create a riot.
What is all that Race Card stuff? WHY? What is it good for?

I want TY to have justice. But this is not exactly how….

 

[jjenny]

This could be a stretch, but, I think she actually heard the entire thing. Including when he was shot. I think they just aren't realeasing that info yet. While it is possible for the call to have dropped if Tray was pushed or a fight started, I'm not convinced just yet. It was raining and his phone was probably in his pocket to keep it from getting wet. The cord of the earbud under his hoodie. Maybe that's what GZ was doing over TM's body if he was frisking him for weapons after he was shot. Disconnecting a phone call. Mary C. said that they had to ask GZ what was going on 3 times before he said call the police. Each time he was asked he just looked back without responding to continue doing something on Tray's body.

All speculation. All my opinion.

The lawyer was very clear that she didn't hear a shot.

 

[Adrienne37]

After making 46 or so calls in 10 months, I bet he did IMO JMHO and stuff

I believe it was 46 calls since January 2012 Sensei.

You will find all of his 911 calls all the way back to 2004 here.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf

 

[vlpate]

Verbatim - Is there another 911 call available of GZ, because there is nothing close to a racial slur that I could hear and I had on noise reduction headphones when I transcribed it. More, GZ never mentioned TM being on the phone.


911 call 4:11
GZ: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's this real suspicious guy retreat view circle, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something -- he's just walking around, looking about..
Dispatcher: ... and this guy's white, black, or hispanic?
GZ: He looks black..
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses
Dispathcher: oh ok
GZ: He's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 (Patridge?) or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?
GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
Dispatcher: Ok
GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah, he's a black male
Dispatcher: Ok, how old would you say he is
GZ: He's got a button on his shirt
He's late teens
Dispatcher: Late teens, ok
GZ: Something's wrong with him. Yep, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, ok
GZ: Just get an officer over here
Dispatcher: We've got them on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
GZ: Ok
Pause
GZ: These a-holes, they always get away. Yep, when you come to the club house you come straight in and make a left ... actually, you would go past the club house.
Dispatcher: Oh, you say it's on the left hand side from the club house?
GZ: No, you go in, straight through the entrance and then you make a left, ummm, yeah you go straight in, don't turn and make a left. Ship, he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running, which way is he running?
GZ: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Ok, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
GZ: The back entrance.
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
GZ: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir, what is your name?
GZ: George, he ran...
Dispatcher: Alright George, what's your last name?
GZ: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: What's the phone number you're calling from?
GZ: Gives number
Dispatcher: Alright George, we do have them on the way, did you want to meet with the officers when they get out there?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you gonna meet with them at?
GZ: Umm, if they come in through the, uh, street past the club house, straight past the club house, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
GZ: Umm, I don't know, it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Do you live in the area?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is
Dispatcher: Ok, do you just want to meet with them right near the mailboxes?
GZ: Yeah, that's fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you out there, ok?
GZ: Could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
Dispatcher: Ok, yeah, that's no problem
GZ: Do you need my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah, I've got it (repeats number)
GZ: Yeah, you got it
Dipatcher: Ok, no problem, I'll let 'em know to call you when they are there, yeah?
GZ: Thanks
Dispatcher: You're welcome

For forty five seconds, and no way of knowing how long before the witness called, you can hear yelling in the background of the witness 911 call here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call3.wav

 

[ynotdivein]

Unfortunately, i really cant take anything in that police report as evidence or proof of anything. Darn it! Quick question that i havent seen the answer to. Where was the gun shot wound? Anyone know?

Belle, MSM has been reporting that TM was shot in the chest. (Many MSM sources including the one below; Google "Trayvon Martin shot in the chest" for others.)


City Criticizes Police Chief After Shooting (NY Times, 3/22/12)

"<snip>Mr. Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, told the police that he shot Trayvon in self-defense after an altercation. The teenager was walking home from a convenience store, where he bought iced tea and Skittles, when he was shot once in the chest. <snip>"

There are questions about this, as the initial police report stated that Trayvon's hands were underneath his body as he lay face down on the grass after the shooting.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

 

[MicciStella]

I heard mentioned on JVM that no autopsy was performed on Trayvon. This is a misstatement, I pray!

Regarding autopsy

http://conservativejock.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/trayvon-martin-autopsy-report/

Hope it will be posted soon...

And from an other article.
Sergeant David Morgenstern, a spokesman for Sanford Police, said that an autopsy was carried out on Trayvon Martin by a Volusia county medical examiner. He said Martin was checked for drugs and alcohol, which was a "routine part of the autopsy".

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/...olice-chief-steps-down?cat=world&type=article

Blessing

Micci

 

[RANCH]

Gun Fires and Hits the Girl - YouTube

Gun Backfire compilation - YouTube

The second one is mostly rifles. A few hand guns.

Those are pretty funny. But a skinny girl shooting a Desert Eagle .50 can't be compared to anyone shooting a 9mm.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Let me repost this link that I posted earlier this morning which should clear up quite a few statements about what was Zimmerman's duties, etc. This comes directly from the police department's neighborhood watch liaison and her interactions with Zimmerman as part of the program.

1. In every presentation, “I go through what the rules and responsibilities are,” she said Thursday. The volunteers’ role, she said, is “being the eyes and ears” for the police, “not the vigilante.” Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,” she said. “We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.”
Using a gun in the neighborhood watch role would be out of the question, she said in an interview.

2. In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”

3. The manual warns that watch members should “not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” It should be emphasized to members of patrols, the materials state, that “they do not possess police power and they shall not carry weapons.” The consequences of not following the guidelines are severe, the manual states: “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/#.T2z67RH2b2Y

Well, it looks like not only GZ but his buddy Frank ignored the manual:






Frank Taaffe is his neighbor. Over the last year, they both guarded their subdivision as crime-watch volunteers.


"I more or less patrolled this sector right here (holds up arms), whereas George took care of the entire complex," he said.


He added: "I would see him in the evening doing his patrol and we would wave, and he would walk his Rottweiler through the complex."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57403716/friend-of-martins-shooter-id-do-the-same-thing/

 

[LolaMoon08]

Those are pretty funny. But a skinny girl shooting a Desert Eagle .50 can't be compared to anyone shooting a 9mm.

Those were the first two that came up. Here's a young man shooting a smaller gun (I have no idea about guns?).

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rbv2XJc7YQ"]Gun Backfires in Face - YouTube[/ame]

This kid ends up bleeding, although not his nose, but his eye and close to his lip. I have no idea what kind of gun this is either. It's smaller though.

 

[Sensei]

I believe it was 46 calls since January 2012 Sensei.

Thanks I stand corrected :>) in any case if I had had that much contact with my local PD I think I would probably know them by name too....you know they had to respond to the person calling at least some of the time I would hope anyway IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[HMSHood]

Excuse me - I will only say this once - and I am of a mixed family. Not interested in a fight but I have to say it….
YES MLK did a huge job to help people come together and stop the ugly divide.
And many great things happened because of him, and it is true that fight is still going on. BOTH WAYS…

There are many prejudice crimes against white people too, many racial divides there too.
WHY do black people need an Al Shrpton to create a riot?
White people do not have an Al Sharpton to create a riot.
What is all that Race Card stuff? WHY? What is it good for?

I want TY to have justice. But this is not exactly how….

People like Al Sharpton are really disgusting. The race card just creates further divisions.

 

[T4Tide]

My question is, would Al Sharpton have found it necessary to intervene, or whether GZ would have found TM suspicious in the first place had he been a white child?

My guess is probably not.

Why is it that people don't see the double standard here? Why is it so easily understood that it is not acceptable to assume that a young black male is suspicious, a , or up to no good when there is absolutely no proof of that.... and yet it is acceptable to assume that every white person who wrongs a black person is a racist, even when there is absolutely no proof of that?


Al Sharpton is an interventionist?

His job is just as made up and unimportant as GZ's neighborhood watchman position. If they'd both just mind their own business, we'd all be posting in someone else's thread.

 

[Boytwnmom]

didn't know the NAME of the street that he spends hours and hours patrolling and calling 911 about????

Once I heard he said that-it was clear that no truth was coming out of him and he had fabricated a story to attempt to justify what happened and make Trayvon the aggressor. But it's such a bad lie that it's completely unbelievable.

Amen to that.

Zimmerman also claimed that he had a "squeaky-clean record" and that he was getting out of his vehicle to check the name of the street. Nevermind that there are only three streets in the entire complex.

 

[songline]

Unfortunately, i really cant take anything in that police report as evidence or proof of anything. Darn it! Quick question that i havent seen the answer to. Where was the gun shot wound? Anyone know?

I wonder If we can take anything at all at face value... This will be a connect the dots case


There does not seem to be much evidence here ----
- Self appointed watchman shoots the un armed 17 year old TM
- TY is not identified for 2 days.
- GF tells her story 3 weeks later
- GF family calls in to police next day... nobody calls them back.
- GZ not arrested - reasons DO COMPLY WITH THE LAWS OF THE STATE
If I am not mistaken there are 2 different police reports.

:what: AL SHARPTON SHOWES UP :what:

 

[RANCH]

Those were the first two that came up. Here's a young man shooting a smaller gun (I have no idea about guns?).

Gun Backfires in Face - YouTube

This kid ends up bleeding, although not his nose, but his eye and close to his lip. I have no idea what kind of gun this is either. It's smaller though.

That one shows why it's important to wear hearing and eye protection when shooting a gun. There was some kind of malfunction which allowed gases and particles to fly into that lads face.

 

[LambChop]

I COMPLETELY agree that a person who is armed would NEVER physically attack someone, and that's why I'm pretty convinced GZ didn't attack Trayvon. People who are packing heat don't initiate hand combat with opponents that look like they're a match.

(and despite the weight difference, GZ was fat, not big and muscular. Fat doesn't make someone fight well).

But GZ could have grabbed his arm. Something happened because his phone went suddenly dead while he was talking. If GZ knocked TM's phone out of his hand I could see TM coming back at the man in anger. Once GZ touched TM it's assault and TM was a minor and now TM had the right to protect himself. If GZ got close enough to get into a fight, he was too close.

And with 4 months of police training GZ knew better. jmo

 

[Reality Orlando]

Well police say pursuit is not illegal. Therefore just because Zimmerman was following Trayvon doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to Zimmerman.
So why is Bush claiming otherwise?
What I think is that they passed a law that is so broad and vague they can't even figure out what's covered under it and what isn't.

The Stand Your Ground law basically says if you are in danger of being attacked and fear for your life or great bodily harm you don't have to turn and run, exposing yourself to being shot, or otherwise attacked blindly. You can stand your ground and fight back and not become the victim of crime. I don't see that this applies here to this situation. Z was told to back down. If he had, he would not have been in danger.