FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[Salem]

link? if you know it for a fact.

This is baiting and it needs to stop. There have been no reports that any building was broken into and it is highly doubtful that the victim was breaking into a building while talking on the phone to his girlfriend and being followed by some dude in a truck.

There is no reason to ask for a link to disprove something that has never been stated by LE or MSM.

Please discuss this responsibly and respectfully.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[rotterdam]

How exactly is that a nonsense statement? It's a direct quote from his gf who claims she was on the phone with him up until the last seconds.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," the girlfriend, who was not identified, told ABC. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him

You quoted a non MSM article first so I went hunting again and found the original ABC article. And she indeed said that.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T26p2fU9jcs

 

[Dr.Fessel]

In this case the reporter is reporting what the girlfriend said Trayvon said, so it is the girlfriend being quoted. This was three weeks after the fact, so she may not have wanted to give a direct quote from Trayvon, just recalling as best she could?

The entire phone call, as relayed by the girlfriend, combined with Trayvon's behavior, as relayed in the 911 call, makes me think Trayvon may appeared suspicious, even if he was just scared. I think Zimmerman was scared. Explosive situation in the making. IMO

Here is what the reporter wrote.

The 16-year-old girl, who was not identified, said in a phone call recorded by ABC News this morning that as Trayvon was walking he told her "some man was watching him" so he pulled his hoodie over his head.

..............

Now I find it hard to believe Trayvon said to his girlfriend......... "Some man was following him" he would say........some man is following me. But the reporter puts the quotes on that, either he believes Martin said those words or he believes the girlfriend said those. Either way it is a terrible job of reporting because who said...so he pulled his hoodie over his head?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ils-20120320_1_shooting-death-gated-attorneys

 

[LolaMoon08]

Greyston Garcia charged with murder, a Judge, not LE, dismissed the case as SYG, her final decision (or whatever Judges write), hasn't been written yet. Trevor Dooley is charged with manslaughter, his defense is SYG.

I don't see a correlation at all.



Since there were no arrests, you may be taking on a daunting task.

Might be good to look for MSM instead of blogs.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706789/miami-judge-stabbing-in-the-back.html

Your MSM link for Greyston Garcia.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/ne...stand-your-ground-defense-key-in-trial-022312

Your MSM link for Trevor Dooley

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115558&highlight=father+killed+front+daughter

Websleuths Thread on Trevor Dooley.

 

[Rougelatete]

So what if Trayvon was concealing his identity? He's allowed to conceal his identity from some unknown man with unknown motives who is stalking him at night. That is his right to keep himself anonymous and safe.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It's impossible to know why he put his hood up: there could be several reasons and reasonable people can disagree. He may have not wanted the person watching him to see he had an earpiece and a nice phone - or earbuds suggesting an ipod or iphone. Maybe he thought subconsciously it made him less conspicuous or made him feel more invisible or like he was just minding his own business. Maybe he was afraid his race would make him look more suspicious and was trying to hide that...who knows. I personally hate hoodies and kids that wear them look like gangsta wannabees to me, but the hoodie is not what got him killed. And we cannot know why he put his hoodie up, we can only do exactly what the investigation will do - try to figure out what is the most reasonable scenario based upon the evidence... and we do not have all the evidence.

BBM. Yes exactly! Thank you! Hence my anger at it being repeatedly stated on this forum as fact, with inpunity, that he did it to hide his face.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Greyston Garcia charged with murder, a Judge, not LE, dismissed the case as SYG, her final decision (or whatever Judges write), hasn't been written yet. Trevor Dooley is charged with manslaughter, his defense is SYG.

I don't see a correlation at all.



Since there were no arrests, you may be taking on a daunting task.

Might be good to look for MSM instead of blogs.

Yes, a judge did dismiss the case. At least it went to a judge? Same with Dooley's case? I am looking for cases that are similar to Trayvon's case. I am not going to go into cases where a person is illegally entering into someone's house or business and they person who lives in that home or owns that business shoots and kills an intruder. I'm only looking into cases that can realistically compared to Trayvon's case.

 

[vlpate]

Just using your post as a jumping off place, princess

I think an important part of this "running to the back entrance" as it is transcribed from the 911 calls is that first GZ says "he is coming towards me," then GZ contradicts himself and says "he is running towards the back entrance."

Obviously - Tray can't be doing both. Is he heading towards GZ or running towards the back entrance (his home and safety)?

How could LE NOT have investigated this????? :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Salem

Quoting from the 911 call, and exactly as it was transcribed by me (if mine is the one you are referring to):

GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
<snip>
GZ:Yep, he's coming to check me out.
<snip>
GZ: Sh**, he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running, which way is he running?
GZ: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Ok, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
GZ: The back entrance.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

 

[Salem]

I've seen several posts saying that Trayvon put his hoodie up to hide his face from GZ. Where is that coming from? Has GZ actually said that he thinks that is why Trayvon put his hoodie up?

This type of information should be linked or it should be clearly stated that it is opinion.

I know lots of teens that wear hoodies and this is the first time I have ever heard that most teens put up their hoods to hide their faces. Also, it was raining the night Tray was shot. So I think (my opinion) that he put his hood up to keep the rain off his head and headset.

If others think differently, that's fine. Just please clarify that it is an opinion or inference from the facts given. If it has been stated as a fact somewhere, please post the link.

Thanks!

Salem

 

[mikeysmommom]

Maybe this is something we can all agree on in this thread:

This is so wrong I don't even know where to begin to express how wrong this is. :rocker:

Is this even legal for them to put something like this out there?

Why aren't they under arrest.IMO This is an open threat,whom ever stated this should be locked up.IMO More Black men in FL might be shot at if they are perceived to be a threat esp if they are a member of the Black Panthers.IMO This was not a race thing it was a wrong thing like Trayvon mother said but with this it will be a race thing.

 

[Salem]

Quoting from the 911 call, and exactly as it was transcribed by me (if mine is the one you are referring to):

I was actually referring to Ynot's transcription - but it appears that they are both the same

So.... was Tray going to confront GZ or was he running away? GZ doesn't get to have it both ways. MOO

Salem

 

[jjenny]

I was actually referring to Ynot's transcription - but it appears that they are both the same

So.... was Tray going to confront GZ or was he running away? GZ doesn't get to have it both ways. MOO

Salem

I don't think there is any contradiction. First Trayvon came toward GZ (presumably GZ was in the car at that point), looked at him, and then he took off running.

 

[Talina]

I was actually referring to Ynot's transcription - but it appears that they are both the same

So.... was Tray going to confront GZ or was he running away? GZ doesn't get to have it both ways. MOO

Salem

When listening to the tape of GZ speaking to LE, I understand him to be saying that at one point TM is walking towards him (and he says to check him out - to which I say Oh brother! when hearing the way he says it, but I digress) then he says Trayvon is now running. So, sounds to me like according to GZ, TM is coming towards him then changes his direction and starts running away from him. At that point, GZ then takes it upon himself to pursue on foot.

That is my understanding of what GZ is stating on the recorded phone call to be happening.

IMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

I wish we knew if the DOJ or FBI has enhanced Zimmerman's call to see if they can figure out what he says right before the dispatcher asks him if he is following Tray?

 

[Salem]

I don't think there is any contradiction. First Trayvon came toward GZ (presumably GZ was in the car at that point), looked at him, and then he took off running.

But if that is the case, how can GZ be claiming self-defense? If Tray took off running how did he attack GZ? I think it is a contradiction to what GZ is claiming.

Salem

 

[rotterdam]

This is my opinion...

My point is, that the same people who have a problem with Trayvon putting his hoodie up, would have the same problem if the hoodie was originally up and Trayvon removed it from his head. They would have found a way to twist and morph it into the same argument. That Trayvon was acting suspiciously.

When it is my opinion, that the hoodie being on his head or off his head has nothing to do with anything in this case?

I agree. I find the whole thing fairly insignificant. A 16 year old girl trying to recall verbatim what Tray told her. It was raining so he probably pulled up his hood in order not to get wet. Kids quite often talk cryptic to each other and suddenly jump from one subject to another in the same sentence. But pulling up his hood up to hide his face seems farfetched. Did not GZ said that Tray walked up to his car to check him out? Does not sound like he was trying to hide his face.

 

[LolaMoon08]

But if that is the case, how can GZ be claiming self-defense? If Tray took off running how did he attack GZ? I think it is a contradiction to what GZ is claiming.

Salem

I still don't know how he can claim self defense after he chose to jump out of his car and pursue Trayvon, but maybe I'm just dumb?

 

[Talina]

But if that is the case, how can GZ be claiming self-defense? If Tray took off running how did he attack GZ? I think it is a contradiction to what GZ is claiming.

Salem

Did you see the article posted today where his own attorney is now backing away from the Stand your Ground law being applicable to GZ? His attorney has said it does not apply to this situation but instead, GZ was purely defending himself.

Now, I'd like a legal head to answer a question I have.

If someone is charged with murder/manslaughter, and they don't deny they are the person responsible for the death but claim self defense..since they are not denying the charge but claiming self defense, does that become an affirmative defense and the they take on the burden of proving it instead of the prosecution disproving it?

 

[jjenny]

But if that is the case, how can GZ be claiming self-defense? If Tray took off running how did he attack GZ? I think it is a contradiction to what GZ is claiming.

Salem

I don't have GZ's statement, but from what police chief seems to be saying, GZ claims that he was attacked after he got out of his truck, and was returning back to the truck.

 

[jjenny]

Did you see the article posted today where his own attorney is now backing away from the Stand your Ground law being applicable to GZ? His attorney has said it does not apply to this situation but instead, GZ was purely defending himself.

Now, I'd like a legal head to answer a question I have.

If someone is charged with murder/manslaughter, and they don't deny they are the person responsible for the death but claim self defense..since they are not denying the charge but claiming self defense, does that become an affirmative defense and the they take on the burden of proving it instead of the prosecution disproving it?

I really don't understand what GZ's lawyer was saying, because stand your ground law doesn't just cover someone in their house. And what exactly is a difference between defending oneself and standing your ground anyway?