FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[Boytwnmom]

and was erroneous in his conclusions based on it which is part of why it is illegal for LE to use racial profiling. GZ may have been profiling "in good faith" in his mind which "knew" that there were lots of burglaries all done by young black guys and hey, look, a black guy and he's "suspicious" because ummm, he's walking and looking around, wait, he's on drugs, there's something wrong with him, he's up to no good etc. Those were all things he said and conclusions that were drawn based upon, IMO, very little actual evidence beyond Trayvon was young and black and male.

The problem with profiling is that it offers no, ZERO information about the likelihood of any particular individual committing a crime or doing something illegal. Behavior is a much better indicator than race. So, was it Trayvon's behavior or race that caused him to be suspicious. IMO, it was his race and I believe if a white boy had been doing the same thing as Trayvon GZ would not have concluded he was a criminal and thus set in motion the tragic events of that evening. I would feel differently if Trayvon had engaged in any behavior noted, at that time (and not invented now), as being actually suspicious, i.e., looking in windows, trying doors, checking out garage door opener panels, hiding in bushes while going from house to house. People can disagree but I think Trayvon's race was an essential aspect of GZ's conclusion that Trayvon was a criminal that needed to be apprehended and that if he didn't do something this a%$hole would get away just like all the others.

I have a question.
I would love an answer.

Is there anything that shows GZ is a racist?

Besides the word that NOBODY understands. Could have been racist but its not clear.

Is there ANYTHING else?

Because post after post I read
"this racist" and "wanted to shoot a black kid" and "black kid in a hoodie".

Is there anything that shows GZ is a racist?

The race issue is out of hand. With NO evidence GZ is even racist.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Oh my - this just on MSNBC live

It seems GZ's attorney is now speaking out against RZ (the brother) - he's saying that the brother hasn't spoken to GZ in YEARS and that the comments RZ made about injuries and medical records are not backed up by GZ because RZ has not been in contact with GZ for years.

Oh my - two on the same side now aruging publicly? Really? Dissention in the ranks?

The truth doesn't change. But it seems two people - both GZ supporters can't get their truths right.

hhmmm...........................................


Sorry - no link - I just watched it on MSNBC.




JMHO

 

[tehcloser]

Oh my - this just on MSNBC live

It seems GZ's attorney is now speaking out against RZ (the brother) - he's saying that the brother hasn't spoken to GZ in YEARS and that the comments RZ made about injuries and medical records are not backed up by GZ because RZ has not been in contact with GZ for years.

Oh my - two on the same side now aruging publicly? Really? Dissention in the ranks?

The truth doesn't change. But it seems two people - both GZ supporters can't get their truths right.

hhmmm...........................................


Sorry - no link - I just watched it on MSNBC.




JMHO

TRANSLATION:

There are no medical records................oh my, what a ca-numb-drum.

 

[sabrecmc]

It's entirely possible. Even probable. I would probably try to do the same if I thought someone were going to shoot me. I just keep going back to my original point - GZ never had to leave his vehicle in the first place.

I think that your last point is why this is all so frustrating. GZ may or may not have actually committed a crime, but it was a death that did not at all need to happen.

My personal speculation (and that is all it is!): GZ is suspicious, rightly or wrongly, of TM walking around in the rain. Maybe he sees him appearing to talk to himself (though we know he was on the phone using an earpiece talking to his g/f). TM asks GZ why he is following him. GZ wants to know what TM is doing there. TM says it is none of GZ's business, etc. GZ says he is neighborhood watch, so it is so his business, yadda, yadda. They get closer to each other, both posturing and generally behaving like idiots. At some point, GZ sees or thinks he sees TM reach for his waistband. GZ thinks TM might be reaching for a gun. GZ pulls his gun. TM freaks and grabs for it. Maybe this is when he ends up hitting GZ (if he did). A struggle ensues and GZ ends up shooting TM.

To me, a lot rests on who is screaming out so disturbingly on the 911 tape. If that is TM and then he is shot, then I have a hard time believing GZ's version. That person screaming sounded in genuine and terrible fear. If that is GZ, then I am much more inclined to believe that he really felt threatened and had no choice (in his mind) at that moment but to pull the trigger.

All in all, it is senseless and did not have to happen. GZ's actions put all of this in motion. He may not be legally culpable, but I think he bears moral responsibility for TM's death. He was the adult and should have acted like such.

 

[ThoughtFox]

"http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...Y6dlsGi5HD9bWL

Richard Kurtz told CNN's Nancy Grace on Wednesday that Martin had a gunshot wound to his upper chest, but any other injury would have been difficult to detect because an autopsy was performed on the teen's body before he received it."

That's only partly true. The article also says:

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...director_DItBKrvBY6dlsGi5HD9bWL#ixzz1qcqLMRDw


He also saw no injuries on Trayvon's hands, which is important because it means there were no injuries from either pummeling Zimmerman or, conversely, defensive injuries from a struggle.

Bruises stay after death.

Remember that Zimmerman is saying that Trayvon tumbled around and slammed his head into the sidewalk, so Zimmerman would have probably grabbed his hands at some point to make him stop.

If that ever really happened...

 

[mercuriod]

We might get some real information soon. I understand Corey is asking or invoking an exception to the Sunshine Law that information be released even though this is an ongoing investigation to help clear up so much false information spreading.

No just the opposite, she is invoking an exemption so that records that would normally be released to the public not be released.

 

[m00c0w]

That's only partly true. The article also says:

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...director_DItBKrvBY6dlsGi5HD9bWL#ixzz1qcqLMRDw


He also saw no injuries on Trayvon's hands, which is important because it means there were no injuries from either pummeling Zimmerman or, conversely, defensive injuries from a struggle.

Bruises stay after death.

Remember that Zimmerman is saying that Trayvon tumbled around and slammed his head into the sidewalk, so Zimmerman would have probably grabbed his hands at some point to make him stop.

If that ever really happened...

BBM

They would have to be able to form first, though. If he suffered a massive amount of blood loss, bruising that occurred directly before death may not be apparent at all.

 

[i.b.nora]

According to reports on the Tamron Hall show on MSNBC, the attorney for George Zimmerman came out after the brother Robert, Jr. was on Peirs Morgan and said that the two brothers have not spoken in years and that the brother just wanted to be on TV.

 

[Adrienne37]

Oh my - this just on MSNBC live

It seems GZ's attorney is now speaking out against RZ (the brother) - he's saying that the brother hasn't spoken to GZ in YEARS and that the comments RZ made about injuries and medical records are not backed up by GZ because RZ has not been in contact with GZ for years.

Oh my - two on the same side now aruging publicly? Really? Dissention in the ranks?

The truth doesn't change. But it seems two people - both GZ supporters can't get their truths right.

hhmmm...........................................


Sorry - no link - I just watched it on MSNBC.




JMHO

...but, but, but brother said he had spoken to George within 24 hours of Trayvon's murder. You remember he said that George was suffering from PTSD, he was trying hard to get his head off the concrete so as not to end up wearing diapers and having to be fed by his brother.

LOL! Just as I said earlier, the Zimmerman's and all associated with them need to keep their traps shut.



~jmo~

 

[cityslick]

Oh my - this just on MSNBC live

It seems GZ's attorney is now speaking out against RZ (the brother) - he's saying that the brother hasn't spoken to GZ in YEARS and that the comments RZ made about injuries and medical records are not backed up by GZ because RZ has not been in contact with GZ for years.

Oh my - two on the same side now aruging publicly? Really? Dissention in the ranks?

The truth doesn't change. But it seems two people - both GZ supporters can't get their truths right.

hhmmm...........................................


Sorry - no link - I just watched it on MSNBC.




JMHO

Probably because he did more harm than good for GZ and GZ is trying to distance himself from these comments.

 

[Inabsentia]

Depends on what his past had been like. <modsnip> I have no info on your son other than what you have told me. But, yes, if he had been hanging out on his cell phone hanging out, wandering around, yes, I would wonder why there was not any reinforcement at home from the parents.

Maybe his parents feel that pot should be legalized, many people do, in many places it already is, or is in all but name. Maybe Trayvon had been made to volunteer at the school or work off the cost of the vandalism mowing lawns. Maybe he was walking slow in the rain becuse he wanted to talk to his girlfriend and had been grounded from using his phone for personal calls and couldn't call her from home. We don't know, and I don't think we have a right to know. How parents discipline their children is a family matter as long as it is not done abusively. If my child were killed, I would be appalled if I were expected to detail my disciplinary actions for his every infraction. Or his every infraction either. None of it is relevant to George Martin's persuit of Trayvon Martin on the night that Zimmerman shot and killed him. Can't we let the Martin's grieve without disparaging their parenting? Moo

 

[kimpage]

According to reports on the Tamron Hall show on MSNBC, the attorney for George Zimmerman came out after the brother Robert, Jr. was on Peirs Morgan and said that the two brothers have not spoken in years and that the brother just wanted to be on TV.

What do you have a link????TIA his brother seemed hinky to me IMHO

 

[cityslick]

It's pretty bad when he's got members of his own family trying to capitalize on his error, going on talk shows getting their 15 minutes.

 

[i.b.nora]

On the previous thread, I posted something about the City Manager getting the Police to release the videotape of George arriving at the police station but on Tamron Hall they are saying it was the ceremonial elected Mayor who called for the release of the tape/s. I am not sure he has that power. Maybe the City Manager and the City Commission called for it. Doesn't really matter I guess. I am glad they were released before they got destroyed.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

That's only partly true. The article also says:

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...director_DItBKrvBY6dlsGi5HD9bWL#ixzz1qcqLMRDw


He also saw no injuries on Trayvon's hands, which is important because it means there were no injuries from either pummeling Zimmerman or, conversely, defensive injuries from a struggle.

Bruises stay after death.

Remember that Zimmerman is saying that Trayvon tumbled around and slammed his head into the sidewalk, so Zimmerman would have probably grabbed his hands at some point to make him stop.

If that ever really happened...

BBM


OOOOOO - good point. And yet they didn't check GZ's hands - no fingernail scrappings - nada, zero, zip, zlich.

If GZ had TM's dna under his nails - helps to prove a fight / serious altercation.

I'm past this "botched" investigation talk. This was completely covered-up. Not botched. LE knows protocol. CSI knows protocol. Detectives know protocol. None of which was followed right down to GZ's clothes.

You can't tell me this many people just "screwed up" - nope. This was covered-up. But why? At first - on the scene - nobody was aware of anything other than a shooting occurred and they had one dead. CSI comes in and starts the evidence gathering.

What is really going on here? How did everyone know to not do certain things? And where in the hello is Trayvon's phone?

At this point, I'm not sure we, as the public, will ever know what actually happened or what is the underlying deeper reason for this whole thing to have blown up like it has.



JMHO

 

[Boytwnmom]

of the 911 calls that were previously released and linked to-don't have it now but it's here somewhere! I think the car chase was the first one back in 2004 so it was easy to remember

Never mind, found it-I had it saved and didn't know it...

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/911CallHistory.pdf

There are reports that he chased people down in his car ? Where can I find that info ?
Is there any evidence that the weapon was even visible before the physical altercation ?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Oh my - this just on MSNBC live

It seems GZ's attorney is now speaking out against RZ (the brother) - he's saying that the brother hasn't spoken to GZ in YEARS and that the comments RZ made about injuries and medical records are not backed up by GZ because RZ has not been in contact with GZ for years.

Oh my - two on the same side now aruging publicly? Really? Dissention in the ranks?

The truth doesn't change. But it seems two people - both GZ supporters can't get their truths right.

hhmmm...........................................


Sorry - no link - I just watched it on MSNBC.




JMHO

LOL LOL LOL I hope that makes the brother so mad he gets on another show and tells what George is really like. :woohoo:

 

[m00c0w]

BBM


OOOOOO - good point. And yet they didn't check GZ's hands - no fingernail scrappings - nada, zero, zip, zlich.

If GZ had TM's dna under his nails - helps to prove a fight / serious altercation.

I'm past this "botched" investigation talk. This was completely covered-up. Not botched. LE knows protocol. CSI knows protocol. Detectives know protocol. None of which was followed right down to GZ's clothes.

You can't tell me this many people just "screwed up" - nope. This was covered-up. But why? At first - on the scene - nobody was aware of anything other than a shooting occurred and they had one dead. CSI comes in and starts the evidence gathering.

What is really going on here? How did everyone know to not do certain things? And where in the hello is Trayvon's phone?

At this point, I'm not sure we, as the public, will ever know what actually happened or what is the underlying deeper reason for this whole thing to have blown up like it has.



JMHO

But I ask again, why would so many LE cover this up? It would imply that a vast amount of the department was in on it, and I don't see the motive or rationale.

 

[i.b.nora]

What do you have a link????TIA his brother seemed hinky to me IMHO

Sorry, I do not. I just heard it on TV on the Tamron Hall program "News Nation" on MSNBC.

 

[tehcloser]

"They may wind up getting sued and getting hit with hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and damages," said Berger, who works with the South Florida law firm Katzman, Garfinkel and Berger. "Who will pay is every member of the association, and they will have to make special assessments. ... It's a cautionary tale for other associations."
http://www.standard.net/stories/201...sued-trayvon-martins-neighborhood-watch-death