Found Deceased FL - AMBER ALERT: Diana Alvares, 9, Fort Myers, 29 May 2016 #2

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katydid23 said:
Maybe Jorge lied to his brother about where he was?
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I need to go back, but something about getting the car towed...? Sorry, will have to reread with fresh eyes. Falling asleep (with a sick pit in my gut like we all must have after reading those docs).
 
katydid23 said:
But there is a timeline problem with that 'oil' on the burners arson theory. The police report said his phone pinged near the trailer until 3 am. But Mom didn't find the burners until 7 am. I don't think oil on the burner would last 4 hours without catching fire.
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katydid23 said:
If his phone pinged there until 3 am, and then began moving away, then Diana left with him then. So who turned on the burners?
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I'd like to take one for the team and try an experiment with the oil and burners, but I don't think that would be very smart...
 
margarita25 said:
I'd like to take one for the team and try an experiment with the oil and burners, but I don't think that would be very smart...
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Agreed. Not too smart. I know I would probably fall asleep and wake up to the smell of black smoke....:panic: :fire:
 
Biut I can say from recent memory, it takes only about 20 minutes. We were having a BBQ last month and we were outside grilling Carne Asada for tacos. I put some oil in a frying pan on the stove in the kitchen to warm up tortillas. I went outside and forgot about it. My daughter came out and laughed at me, telling me the kitchen was just starting to smoke before she caught it and turned off the burner. Then the smoke alarm went off in the house...

So I KNOW that oil could not have been on a burner for four hours. It would have burned up and smoked and probably caught fire way before 4 hours.
 
Thinking about the oil in the pan. I wonder if by some miracle the pan wasn't sitting directly on the burner. It would take longer to heat, but I am not sure how much longer.
 
(Earlier, before JG was arrested and the AA had just been issued, we wondered about whether or not he would kill her bc he humanized her...last night on ID's "Deadly Demands" there was a Criminologist speaking about kidnappers (this episode was about a man who abducted a teen from a shopping mall (random victim), then went on a multistate crime spree). Anyway, she said something like in random kidnappings, they often kill the victims BUT that there is a more rare "subset" of kidnappers, referred to as "Collectors", who keep their victims alive. This is likely O/T now since JG has been arrested with no Diana, but wanted to mention this bc I don't recall hearing about this specific subset of kidnappers as it was presented in the show. Obviously monsters like Castro, etc, exist, but the specific term itself...)
 
margarita25 said:
I need to go back, but something about getting the car towed...? Sorry, will have to reread with fresh eyes. Falling asleep (with a sick pit in my gut like we all must have after reading those docs).
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Exactly Margarita. My stomach hurt immediately after reading docs. I can't sleep now.
 
margarita25 said:
I'd like to take one for the team and try an experiment with the oil and burners, but I don't think that would be very smart...
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I spoke with my husband, a chef, about this. My question was how long it would take for a fire to start given the info we have. He says we're missing too many variables to give a good estimate (type of oils have different flash points, gas or electric stove, even the material of the pan, etc), but his very rough guess would be heavy smoke within 30 minutes and fire shortly after.
 
mrsobrien said:
I spoke with my husband, a chef, about this. My question was how long it would take for a fire to start given the info we have. He says we're missing too many variables to give a good estimate (type of oils have different flash points, gas or electric stove, even the material of the pan, etc), but his very rough guess would be heavy smoke within 30 minutes and fire shortly after.
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In one of the video's of the Step dad speaking he seems to indicate the pan was not directly on the burner but off to the side of it. I think the video link was posted in thread one post 596.
 
katydid23 said:
If his phone pinged there until 3 am, and then began moving away, then Diana left with him then. So who turned on the burners?
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Katydid----I'm going to go out on a limb here and answer your question, but it's going to make some people in here very angry at me. It won't be the first time I've made a bunch of folks mad, probably won't be the last either.

The answer: Diana turned the burners on

Hold it ! Hold it ! Hold it !..............here's why.

From the very beginning, I thought the burners being turned on in order to set the house on fire was rather amateurish and silly. Setting an entire house on fire in that manner would only work under optimum conditions. My theory is that Diana was instructed to do that by Jorge. I'm guessing that the burner under the skillet was probably set on LOW temperature, thus it taking it so long to heat up before anybody noticed it was on and smoking. Why turn the other burners of the stove on if there wasn't anything sitting on top of them ? If I recall, the parents said all the burners were on, and a skillet full of oil was sitting on top of ONE of them.

Being 9 years old, and having Jorge as a mentor, she may've not really understood completely why he was telling her to do this or what significance it had. She obviously was in no position to make "grown-up" decisions. Hell, I'm barely capable of making "grown-up" decisions, and I'm in my late forties. That aside, Jorge may have instructed her what she needed to do before exiting the house. Knowing now that there was some sort of communication going on early that morning between them, I'm led to believe that Diana was a willing cohort in this scheme, although she had no idea exactly what Jorge had in store for her.
She trusted this guy, and she did what he told her to do. It was part of their "secret".

I think there's a good possibility Jorge pulled up outside in a waiting car, and Diana came out to meet him. He likely never set foot inside the trailer that morning. Turning on the burners of the stove in the manner it was done seems rather "childish"...................get it ? Maybe in the back of her mind, Diana did realize that turning the burners on high would be dangerous, so she didn't do it, unbeknownst to Jorge.

That oil could have set there and been heated for hours if it was on low or medium-low setting. It would have gotten hot, but not hot enough to cause a flash fire, which I believe was the intended result.
 
After following another case recently I have learned that text messages can be recovered even if they have been deleted. My guess is that the process to recover the deleted texts is underway as we speak. If, as some believe that there is an even more sinister aspect to this case, than what we already believe, LE, may be able to retrieve more information.
 
When I say more sinister, I don't mean the parents in the home. They are victims too IMO. I do believe this goes beyond one sicko though.
 
Somewhere on these threads, I posted about the different flash point temperatures needed for different oils. Olive oil for instance has a higher flash point than some other oils. I think Cannola oil was higher than olive oil is. I know there was liquid oil and not a lard or shortening in the frying pan in that video. OIl will smoke at a lower temperature before reaching the flash point temp.
 
I wonder when Mom went in to cover up Diana, if the reason she wasn't covered to begin with is because Diana wasn't really asleep. She couldn't have been to been awake around 3 am to leave. Or maybe she woke up when being covered, and called or text to Jorge then? Will be interesting to see what time that communication was. Mom was awake! Jorge might have even been outside the home while she was up!

After watching the last interview with her step dad, if he could get his hands on Jorge now, I don't think it would end nicely. You could see the rage, and betrayal. The man was visibly upset, as we all would be. His sweet child, and knowing what that monster most likely has done. And like he said, it was someone's child in those photos, even if not Diana. Maybe old time justice should be brought back in these cases. Let the family get in some punches, or do whatever punishment they want, and if the perp survives, then they can go off to prison for life. IMO! I know that's not Christian like. But I think even Jesus would be mad at someone harming his children!
 
[video=twitter;740131727406948352]https://twitter.com/johntrierweiler/status/740131727406948352[/video]

The search for #DianaAlvarez continues. Investigators may be looking for clues in Yeehaw Junction again today
 
Since he was in that area the day before her abduction, I wonder if he came by the house at any point? How would Diana know to look for a text or send him a text? Maybe he said "I'll text you on Sunday."? Too many things went in his favor in order to accomplish this. I do think his vehicle broke down. I don't know if Diana was with him when that happened though.

And the vehicle found, was it the tan Malibu, or the black Malibu? The white van, maybe it's related, maybe not. There are lots of white vans.

If he shared those photos anywhere, I'm confident LE will find it. With the feds taking the lead here, not doubt they can do things other agencies can't. Like be able to find those photos anywhere on the net they may be. If the other photos were downloaded from some site or person, LE will know. I'm just frightened that he would molest and take photos, then if he did more, he probably filmed or took photos too. If so, I hope it's his down fall.

Oh precious Diana. Never should anyone have taken you from the safety of your home. The one place all kids should feel and be safe in.
 
[video=twitter;740131990599536640]https://twitter.com/johntrierweiler/status/740131990599536640[/video]

We're live at Federal Court as Jorge Guerrero suspected of kidnapping #DianaAlvarez faces federal child *advertiser censored* charges
 
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