GUILTY FL - Blake, 54, & Mary-Jo Hadley, 47, beaten, Port St Lucie, 16 July 2011

[davehead21]

I'm 36. I can not ever remember any one of my friends saying they were going to kill their parents. Now, I can remember plenty of "ugh I can't stand my mom" or "I hate my parents".

Have times changed to where the word "kill" is taken lightly now? Have you ever heard any of your peers say that? I'm just curious to know from your perspective.

I was wondering in what context TH had said he was going to kill his parents in the past. Was it that he was actually going to plan out his parents' murders? Or was he just mad at them and said, "I am going to kill them."

I am 31 and now that I think about it, if someone does something that makes me mad, I will say, "Oh I am going to kill her." My dog is very mischievous and I often find myself saying, "If you don't stop that I'm gonna kill ya." Very obviously, I have never killed anyone....I don't have a violent bone in my body. I am definitely going to be more aware of that now because it's something that I guess I have just picked up and don't really think about what I am saying.

 

[Shelby1]

I was wondering in what context TH had said he was going to kill his parents in the past. Was it that he was actually going to plan out his parents' murders? Or was he just mad at them and said, "I am going to kill them."

I am 31 and now that I think about it, if someone does something that makes me mad, I will say, "Oh I am going to kill her." My dog is very mischievous and I often find myself saying, "If you don't stop that I'm gonna kill ya." Very obviously, I have never killed anyone....I don't have a violent bone in my body. I am definitely going to be more aware of that now because it's something that I guess I have just picked up and don't really think about what I am saying.

BBM

I hear people say that a lot....and it always sticks out to me. Simply because my mom was totally against me saying that phrase. I'm not judging or anything.

I also never say it because, if I think it in my head, I immediately think "Oh man, what if my <insert who ever you're mad at> cat really did die today." I'd be heart-broken.

 

[ziggy]

We just had to kick a boy who just turned 18 out of our home. The danger to us and especially me was a HUGE concern. Mr. zig's son is just a defiant and difficult person. He's been defiant agains ANY authority since he was very small. To avoid his anger, and because no punishment ever worked, he was basically appeased and his bad behavior, while not totally ignored, was never really dealt with. Parents got divorced - he started smoking pot at about 12. Fast forward to his teen years, he's an addict with anger problems, he's physically threatened us and he's smaller than I am - but when he came at me physically he was unusually STRONG much to my surprise. He just had that complete crazy look in his eyes and he's capable of anything.

Would others see that? No. Parents with such a child tend to hide that from friends and family. The son is very good at manipulating and charming others or acting "normal" when he needs to.

There are kids out there that simply have severe personality disorders. They have no concern for anyone but themselves. When you stand in the way of getting what they want, they have no use for you; they are capable of killing you.

I think this boy is just such a kid. I doubt schizophrenia would come on this suddenly and violently. I went to high school with a boy who started showing symptoms of schizo. in high school and he started talking to himself and acting really strange. It was obvious something was wrong. I think his friends would have noticed something more significant than him saying he wanted to kill his parents. I think he just wanted to kill his parents and did what he wanted to do.

 

[GiantPickle]

i have joked about killing my husband if he ever cheats on me. Have even told him where I'd dump his body etc. I have a sick sick sick sense of humor. If my husband ever ends up dead, I'm screwed ! So I can get the concept that the kid didn't take him seriously.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Mr. Ziggy, I appreciate your honesty in sharing with us something so personal in nature, but yet terrifyingly close to what I believe is at the core of this case..

It is just like throughout the Casey Anthony case and trial there have been numerous members that recognize and see that which is Casey Anthony(sociopath, narcissism, nothing stand in their way)they have seen in their own daughters and many of those had resulted in court intervention of custody of the grandchild given to the grandparents.. Many feeling that had they not intervened and taken custody of that grandchild that very easily they could have been murdered just like Caylee was..

I am encouraged to know that many people do not act like the Anthony's by just further enabling but rather intervening on the well fare of the grandchild.. I too believe that just as Mr. Ziggy shared there is great fear in many of the family members and because of that fear the child Is appeased and/or enabled.. I do not blame anyone for this and I feel it is none of our rights to judge family's that deal with these situations.. Tho I know it is easy to point the finger and blame especially in hind sight but who is that helping? IMO no one and it just further shames and guilts family members into hiding the family members "bad" behaviors, covering up out of embarrassment or guilt.. That is not going to help that is only going to enable this problem to grow that much stronger while hidden in darkness..*

My feeling is that the more it is brought to the light of day and huge bright lights shine on these problems, these issues, these behaviors, etc, etc the more attention brought to it the better chance of receiving help to overcome or atleast better equipped to be able to handle these situations and these individuals.. The more this happens.. The more families willing to come forward and quit hiding their family members issues and troubles.. The more that it is brought to the forefront the less shame and embarrassment is associated with admitting that a loved one is not ok.. That there is a problem..and help is desperately needed for the loved one as well as for the entire family that has been affected by this family members behaviors and actions..

I believe until this label of shame, guilt, and embarrassment are removed allowing families to openly seek help until this shame and stigma is lifted this problem will remain hidden in the shadows of a family with the deep dark secret.. And that darkness feeds this negatively in ways I can't even explain here on a message board.. We have got to be more open, less judgemental and quick to label.. We have got to bring these issues to the forefront before anything can move forward in a positive direction..

Mr. Ziggy if you don't mind to answer(but please don't hesitate to just tell me to butt out if so desire).. Do you personally feel that in your case specifically that there is mental illness involved? Do you think that most cases involve mental illness or something such as personality disorders?*
And from your personal experience do feel as though it is in any way related to his environment or an abuse at a young age(and obviously when I say abuse i mean it in a way many people have experienced an abuse be it outside of the immediate family the abuse took place).. Or do you believe it is inherent in certain individuals from birth?

As I said only if you don't mind and i full well understand if you do mind and choose not to answer any of them..

Again thanks for sharing with us..

 

[cluciano63]

Why are there always neighbors, when these crimes happen, who are ready to jump in front of a television camera...in this case, telling the world that they knew this kid had problems...how is that helpful to know now? Tell the police, tell the lawyers, whatever...but I don't understand this need to respond to media just because they ask.
JMO

 

[Leomoon80]

According to the SLC Clerk of Court records, Blake Hadley and Tyler Hadley are defendants. Looks like the accident occured in May of this year. Tyler got served a summons on July 11th for a deposition scheduled for August 29th. The Hadley's home was also in foreclosure, I'm sure the stress level around that house was through the roof.

Summons served on the 11th, and murder occured on the 16th. Wonder if parents were giving him heat about the depot...?

So both boys are defendants in an accident?

If the parents both had jobs, (father working for the city?) and mother as a school teacher, why was the house in foreclosure?

3rd Child in College?

I don't think we can dismiss rather then a mental illness the Drugs (3 Ectasy pills he said he took).......drugs probably bring about all sorts of psychosis and then there are the hormonal imbalances at that age on top of drugs.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: both boys are defendants..

This isnt true.. As is shown ^above^ in leomoons post she is replying to it's states "Blake Hadley and Tyler Hadley" as the defendants.. Blake is the father that is now deceased.. Not the other son, Tyler's brother..

To my knowledge it was just Tyler that was involved in the accident that resulted in injury to a child to which that chld's family was suing for $15,000.00 on behalf of the injured child.. Due to Tyler being a minor himself that meant that the lawsuit would be against his adult parents..

I believe this is why it shows Blake(the father) listed as a co-defendant.. Due to Tyler(the other co-defendant and driver of the vehicle involved in the accident)being a minor the lawsuit then technically involved suing of his parents.. Thus making Blake a co-defendant..

Hope that made sense..

 

[panthera]

That's exactly the question I was going to ask.

Obviously, the dad would have overpowered him if he could have, I guess?

I haven't seen pictures of the dad or mom. Is this kid/monster way bigger than they are?

So sad.

Heard on Nancy Grace, I believe, that dad was over 6' tall and approx. 300 lbs.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Re: both boys are defendants..

This isn't true.. As is shown ^above^ in leomoons post she is replying to it's states "Blake Hadley and Tyler Hadley" as the defendants.. Blake is the father that is now deceased.. Not the other son, Tyler's brother..

To my knowledge it was just Tyler that was involved in the accident that resulted in injury to a child to which that chld's family was suing for $15,000.00 on behalf of the injured child.. Due to Tyler being a minor himself that meant that the lawsuit would be against his adult parents..

I believe this is why it shows Blake(the father) listed as a co-defendant.. Due to Tyler(the other co-defendant and driver of the vehicle involved in the accident)being a minor the lawsuit then technically involved suing of his parents.. Thus making Blake a co-defendant..

Hope that made sense..

So it a vehicle accident? If so the insurance policy was probably in Blake's name and so was the vehicle.

That is what happened to a man I use to work with years ago. His 17 year old son killed three people in an auto accident. The families sued the father because his son was a minor. It destroyed this man and the rest of his family. All the thousands of dollars spent on lawyer fees and the lawsuits against him. His son was at fault and was cutting up with other teens in the car and turned his lights off and he went right through a stop sign late at night and killed the other three teens in the other car instantly.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Heard on Nancy Grace, I believe, that dad was over 6' tall and approx. 300 lbs.

I have seen photos of his father. A very big man like a big teddy bear. He was grossly overweight and would be no match for a young, physcially fit, agile teenager, with murder on his mind and holding a lethal weapon.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not the boy she knew....I think that speaks volumes. I truly believe that we have a reasonably normally developing kid who smacked head on into the tragedy of mental illness. I can think of so many recent threads with this theme. Daniel Butts comes to mind. He's the Oregon teen who killed the Police Chief, a man he'd known all his life. Daniel was a sweet kid until something went wrong a few months before the murder. He was just diagnosed with schizophrenia and sent to the State Hospital for evaluation.

Oh, if there were only a way to get help and to get it fast. Most families and friends have disconnected bits of worry but no one compares notes and the days tick by. Hindsight doesn't bring loved ones back. And I have no doubt in my mind that Tyler is missing his family tonight.

I seriously doubt that satanism played a part in this, though, as he didn't seem to revel in the murders. They were simply a means to an end.

And it also sounds just like so many other cases we have heard about lately when it comes to teens murdering their parents where they aren't mentally ill. I don't really pay much mind to the comments given by neighbors or those who even thought they knew the defendant before their violent acts.

It is so common for others to come out and say 'they are so shocked and would have never thought them capable of doing something like this." "Good kid, no problems." We hear this in just about every case that is discussed here. People can only think they know them. The truth is they only know what the person wants them to know.

I really doubt this boy is going to turnout to be mentally ill by judicial standards and will stand trial for the two heinous murders he committed.

Being schizophrenic is not a legal insanity defense for being criminally insane but I am not sure this kid will even be evaluated as a schizo but may have a conduct disorder. Even though he confessed to his friend he really seemed to have no compassion for the parents he coldly murdered.

IMO

 

[panthera]

I have seen photos of his father. A very big man like a big teddy bear. He was grossly overweight and would be no match for a young, physcially fit, agile teenager, with murder on his mind and holding a lethal weapon.

IMO

Agree........especially if he was perhaps caught off-guard.

So tragic. From what I have heard, they were nice people.

 

[Kat]

I'll probably get whooped for stating this but I will anyway.

I don't consider personality disorders to be a mental illness by the classic definition. Meaning IMHO and in my POV Axis I disorders are what I consider mental illnesses or a true disorder. ADHD is Axis I and I see that as a true disorder (not a mental illness). But that's JMHO. Many of these are incurable although medication can sometimes be used to control the symptoms. So in my mind, the sufferer of one of those disorders has no more control over that illness than say someone has control over the size of their feet or the color of their skin. It is an inherent part of their being. Just the way I see that...

Personality disorders to me are different because they reflect inflexible and rigid personality traits. However, it is possible that those traits can be overcome or unlearned through appropriate therapies. Not cured but the patient can relearn or learn coping skills in order to integrate more easily into mainstream society. But---and it all hinges on this---but the person suffering from the PD has to want to change. Really commit and want it.

Let me say that yes I have a family member with diagnosed personality disorder. That diagnosis is one that is fairly severe as opposed to mild or moderate and also has comorbidity with other Axis II issues. I do believe if our family member would commit to the therapy then there is a strong chance for recovery or at least a more liveable life.

I don't see mental illness as a defense. I do see it as a possible issue to competency during trial. Which means I think that if someone is suffering from an Axis I mental illness and can't assist in their trial then they need to be treated and then go to trial.

I also think that anyone that has a diagnosis of an Axis I disorder deserves to have treatment for their symptoms and any additional services while incarcerated. I have a soft heart about that.

This young man ---who knows? There is no excuse for premeditated murder. None. That is my own strong thoughts on that.

all JMHO

 

[mrsu]

IIRC I heard on Vinnie today that Tyler had "chased down" his dad. Not sure if that's true or not? I haven't seen that printed anywhere.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Prosecutors plan to go to a grand jury and seek first-degree murder charges:

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/jul...idavit-gives-more-details-in/?partner=popular

EXCERPT:
Reached Wednesday, 19th Judicial Circuit Public Defender Diamond Litty confirmed her office represents Hadley.

“Yes, we filed a written plea of not guilty and a demand for discovery,” she said.

Litty noted that the legal papers filed include a waiver for Hadley to appear at his scheduled arraignment Aug. 5 before Circuit Judge Dan Vaughn.

“I doubt if he will appear in court,” Litty said. “They don’t have to show up, because we’ve filed the appropriate paperwork on their behalf.”

Prosecutors on Tuesday said they will present evidence to a grand jury in the next month seeking two counts of first-degree murder against Hadley. If he is indicted, Litty said her office will again be required to enter pleas of not guilty on Hadley’s behalf.

Litty meanwhile, declined to discuss details of the criminal case.

“We’re basically not making any statements at this time,” she said.

 

[Lovejac]

i have joked about killing my husband if he ever cheats on me. Have even told him where I'd dump his body etc. I have a sick sick sick sense of humor. If my husband ever ends up dead, I'm screwed ! So I can get the concept that the kid didn't take him seriously.

Don't worry, we would sleuth out the real killer :blowkiss:

 

[4Jacy]

Hope you enjoyed you paaarrttty!!! God help us all. They were your PARENTS, KID,THEY WERE YOUR PARENTS. Hoping you get the max. Wish I could be on that jury....oh boy, you'd fry!!

THEY WERE YOUR PARENTS, STUPID. HOW, IN GOD'S NAME COULD YOU DO THIS TO THEM??

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Agree........especially if he was perhaps caught off-guard.

So tragic. From what I have heard, they were nice people.

Yes, it is and it just shows too much planning and premeditation too, imo.

More and more we are seeing these type of young killers. Those who are not abused but coming from good families.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'll probably get whooped for stating this but I will anyway.

I don't consider personality disorders to be a mental illness by the classic definition. Meaning IMHO and in my POV Axis I disorders are what I consider mental illnesses or a true disorder. ADHD is Axis I and I see that as a true disorder (not a mental illness). But that's JMHO. Many of these are incurable although medication can sometimes be used to control the symptoms. So in my mind, the sufferer of one of those disorders has no more control over that illness than say someone has control over the size of their feet or the color of their skin. It is an inherent part of their being. Just the way I see that...

Personality disorders to me are different because they reflect inflexible and rigid personality traits. However, it is possible that those traits can be overcome or unlearned through appropriate therapies. Not cured but the patient can relearn or learn coping skills in order to integrate more easily into mainstream society. But---and it all hinges on this---but the person suffering from the PD has to want to change. Really commit and want it.

Let me say that yes I have a family member with diagnosed personality disorder. That diagnosis is one that is fairly severe as opposed to mild or moderate and also has comorbidity with other Axis II issues. I do believe if our family member would commit to the therapy then there is a strong chance for recovery or at least a more liveable life.

I don't see mental illness as a defense. I do see it as a possible issue to competency during trial. Which means I think that if someone is suffering from an Axis I mental illness and can't assist in their trial then they need to be treated and then go to trial.

I also think that anyone that has a diagnosis of an Axis I disorder deserves to have treatment for their symptoms and any additional services while incarcerated. I have a soft heart about that.

This young man ---who knows? There is no excuse for premeditated murder. None. That is my own strong thoughts on that.

all JMHO

I have no problem with them being treated in prison if they are convicted of the crime(s). Although I have read treatment is rarely successful and can even exacerbate the problem instead of alleviating it.

But as you have stated it in no way excuses these type of young killers from their heinous acts.

This boy had plenty of aforethought applied to these crimes.

He planned it and he carried them out.

He kill the weakest first.......his mom.

He then killed his father.

He then covered their bodies with various items.

He lied to LE saying his parents weren't home.

So he certainly knew right from wrong and knew what he had done was very wrong and that is why he tried to conceal it. He didn't think his best friend would bust him out on his secret. Thank God his friend did come forth.

imo