GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #3

[turaj]

What I find strange is the constant referral to her "messing up" the basic spelling of words or grammar. I mean, considering the gravity of what her brother knew of her Mental Illness - isn't that a tiny thing? It's like they all were just over her illness and wanted her to just "straighten up" and get "fixed".

yes after that many years they did all want her to just get "fixed"...not one of them understood that without significant help to get on track she could not just fix herself. I do agree with those that mention her responsibility to take the meds and keep her life on track and I agree but for me that would come after a serious intervention to change the course of her life. She would be the one that would need to do that.

 

[ToodieWorm]

yes after that many years they did all want her to just get "fixed"...not one of them understood that without significant help to get on track she could not just fix herself. I do agree with those that mention her responsibility to take the meds and keep her life on track and I agree but for me that would come after a serious intervention to change the course of her life. She would be the one that would need to do that.

But, if truly, deeply mentall ill -- the old adage - "the crazy don't know they are crazy" - would she really have the tools to change her life course?

 

[Whiteorchids]

My thoughts too -- esp. thinking of Castro, and the 1 year anniversary of the girls' rescue.

I'm sure she'd have been put on suicide watch, at least in the beginning. However, she may have stabilized a bit mentally. In jail, she has to follow a routine -- get up in the morning, get showered and dressed, eat her meals, take her meds, follow a routine. She can't abuse alcohol or OD. It's actually probably a good setting for someone like her, who is either unable or unwilling to take charge of her life on her own.

Yes and no, I have a lot of knowledge on this matter as I have a family member who has been dealing with Schizo-affective disorder over 10 years and in and out of the jails.

If she is closely watched and is alone in her cell she can stay away from the alcohol and drugs more easily but if inmates have a cell-mate and or in general population there are plenty of drugs floating around. They make alcohol in the jails called Pruno.

The jail mental health department is terrible at least here in CA as the jails and prisons are overcrowded. The jails are full of mentally ill people. They can only see a psychiatrist maybe once a month if lucky. Many people in the jails are serving their long term prison sentences in the jails due to the prison overcrowded. Jerry Brown has released around 10,000 or more prison inmates due to realignment.

 

[turaj]

Sorry to monopolize things this afternoon. One quick question, and then I'm off to finish the laundry and go out and do some gardening.

I've been checking to find out what would happen if JS were found guilty and what would happen if she were found not guilty.

If guilty, she'd get 25 years to life (can't see her living more than 25 years -- she's aged 2 decades in the past 3 years)

But what if not guilty due to insanity? Would she be committed to an institution -- and how long? Or would she just be let out on the streets? Where would she go?

I've been searching the web, but can't yet find what they do in Florida.

I don't exactly know the law here and others will no doubt have some facts...but what i understand the guilty is just as you say and the not guilty would send her to mental institution with option for release depending on her rehabilitation progress.

 

[Jewels53]

yes after that many years they did all want her to just get "fixed"...not one of them understood that without significant help to get on track she could not just fix herself. I do agree with those that mention her responsibility to take the meds and keep her life on track and I agree but for me that would come after a serious intervention to change the course of her life. She would be the one that would need to do that.

I totally agree with you, she was in the hospital or treatment for 9 mo.. At least JS stated so, I don't know it for fact. Unfortunately insurance does dictate so much of our health care today. I know it used to be in the military a different type of health care. My health care pays better if you go to certain facility's or Dr's.

 

[ToodieWorm]

I don't exactly know the law here and others will no doubt have some facts...but what i understand the guilty is just as you say and the not guilty would send her to mental institution with option for release depending on her rehabilitation progress.

Actually, somewhere in this thread, someone posted what most likely would happen to her if she were found not guilty due to insanity. It was a longer post with several links.

 

[Zuri]

PS has filed or will file a wrongful death civil suit I believe. What will that do for him? She has no assets but I would think there must be a reason? Proceeds from the house which I believe has not been sold yet? Just wondering as I would assume he would/should get away from this legal stuff and start healing. And I know he does some things towards that but I mean just get away for awhile.

IIRC, they had joint assets of over $3 million, of which she was entitled to half in a divorce. The assets could not be divided until the criminal case was decided I think and JS has the option of going back to her maiden name if she chooses once this is over. 3M is a lot of money and IMO is why PS filed the wrongful death suit against JS, so if any $ is awarded her in the divorce, he can collect on the backside. I was curious if the bulk of their assets were from inheritance as there seemed to be cash on hand since JS requested $ to pay for a private criminal attorney.

 

[Cherry]

Her conditions exclude insanity in every way. This defense team totally shocked me yesterday with their ignorance, and attempt to insult my intelligence just as a viewer! I have seen some pretty shoty defense teams but this one takes the cake. Not only did she have to READ her Motion, she did so with mistakes and no passion at all. Not that it mattered, as her req wasn't even legal! DENIED! It is my Very Strong Opinion that JS is Malingering even today in the court room. She makes me sick; she makes me sicker than JA because WE SAW her argue with the Judge yesterday trying to pretend she didnt understand then using TEARS and breaking down crying; and then the Judge gv her even MORE TIME to discuss her statement that would be read to the jury! She is really sickening. I only write this because Yesterday I do believe we saw the Real JS who is manipulative, greedy, and refuses to take ANY responsibility for her actions. She shows no remorse. She is lucky they took Death off the table because she deserves it IMMHO, If you didn't get to see what happened live yesterday before some stations went to the FL shooting at James house *the tennis star* I'm sorry as I cannot provide a link. But I watched her and Hv been reading her body language from day one. She is lying and has so many tells that I cannot begin to describe them all! I hope this jury "gets it".

 

[Whiteorchids]

Sorry to monopolize things this afternoon. One quick question, and then I'm off to finish the laundry and go out and do some gardening.

I've been checking to find out what would happen if JS were found guilty and what would happen if she were found not guilty.

If guilty, she'd get 25 years to life (can't see her living more than 25 years -- she's aged 2 decades in the past 3 years)

But what if not guilty due to insanity? Would she be committed to an institution -- and how long? Or would she just be let out on the streets? Where would she go?

I've been searching the web, but can't yet find what they do in Florida.

She would be not guilty by reason of insanity. She would be committed for the rest of her life because of the severity of her crimes. The hospitals would be liable if they let this woman out and she killed again. These hospitals are prisons for the insane and they are locked up in cells. People think its more like a hospital. It is not. Their are different levels of sanity. When my sister worked at Patton State Hospital this really cute guy (patient) fell in love with her. She said he was so sweet and wrote her poems. She read his chart and that he had killed his mother and cut her heart out. There are patients their who have eaten people after killing them. Seriously it's horrific. I think she belongs here.

She would have a better chance, but most likely of getting out of prison when eligible for parole with no prior criminal history unless her sentence was 25 years to life with no eligibility for parole. I think going to the Hospital would be better because she would never be let out in my opinion. Some people like Prison because they have classes, get jobs, play sports. That's why I want her to go to a hospital. Not as much to do.

 

[Zuri]

She would be not guilty by reason of insanity. She would be committed for the rest of her life because of the nature of her crimes. These hospitals are prisons for the insane and they are locked up in cells. People think its more like a hospital. It is not. Their are different levels of sanity. When my sister worked at Patton State Hospital this really cute guy (patient) fell in love with her. She said he was so sweet and wrote her poems. She read his chart and that he had killed his mother and cut her heart out. There are patients their who have eaten people after killing them. Seriously it's horrific. I think she belongs here.

She would have a better chance, but most likely of getting out of prison when eligible for parole with no prior criminal history. I think going to the Hospital would be worse. Some people like Prison because they have classes, get jobs, play sports. That's why I want her to go to a hospital. Not as much to do.

I concur that she belongs somewhere she can get supervised mental health care. Whether that is in prison or a hospital for the criminally insane, I don't know. She definitely should never walk the streets again. JMV

 

[Zuri]

Her conditions exclude insanity in every way. This defense team totally shocked me yesterday with their ignorance, and attempt to insult my intelligence just as a viewer! I have seen some pretty shoty defense teams but this one takes the cake. Not only did she have to READ her Motion, she did so with mistakes and no passion at all. Not that it mattered, as her req wasn't even legal! DENIED! It is my Very Strong Opinion that JS is Malingering even today in the court room. She makes me sick; she makes me sicker than JA because WE SAW her argue with the Judge yesterday trying to pretend she didnt understand then using TEARS and breaking down crying; and then the Judge gv her even MORE TIME to discuss her statement that would be read to the jury! She is really sickening. I only write this because Yesterday I do believe we saw the Real JS who is manipulative, greedy, and refuses to take ANY responsibility for her actions. She shows no remorse. She is lucky they took Death off the table because she deserves it IMMHO, If you didn't get to see what happened live yesterday before some stations went to the FL shooting at James house *the tennis star* I'm sorry as I cannot provide a link. But I watched her and Hv been reading her body language from day one. She is lying and has so many tells that I cannot begin to describe them all! I hope this jury "gets it".

Yesterday, IMO we got a look at what her family has lived with for years. What was not smart on her part was angering the judge. I do think she went for the sympathy ploy and it backfired. The stipulation was pretty straightforward and obviously explained to her at length and she chose to be obtuse. JMV

 

[Nymeria]

If I recall, that was the tipping point. Urgh, can't find the links.
She asks the family members to forward the PS email and they refuse. Could she possibly have seen that as "all is lost"? "Everyone" was against her?

Emails- http://tbo.com/assets/pdf/TB48127.PDF

I think I am in the minority. I feel like most of her family really was doing all they could to help. I think her final couple of months when she started drinking with the meds just pushed it all to the breaking point (with her and with the family).

That being said, I think they should have committed her.
She needed intensive help, and I think she should have been in a hospital were it would have been regulated.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I concur that she belongs somewhere she can get supervised mental health care. Whether that is in prison or a hospital for the criminally insane, I don't know. She definitely should never walk the streets again. JMV

I really think Prison has more opportunities to get you out of your cell to rehabilitate you for the outside world and socialize whereas a hospital they keep you heavily medicated like a zombie and you sleep most of the day because too sleepy to do sports, classes, etc.

 

[Bernina]

But, if truly, deeply mentall ill -- the old adage - "the crazy don't know they are crazy" - would she really have the tools to change her life course?

Exactly!!!!! And where was her "support"? Weeks on end in bed? Come on! MI or not, that is a MAJOR red flag.

Many patients don't like the "fuzziness", sleepiness, weight gain,motivation, slowed reaction and thinking processes Lithium causes. Some feel great after getting on Lithium and think they don't need it anymore <---major reason why many stop. They don't connect the "feeling great" with "taking the Lithium".

Alcohol and methamphetamines/speed/coke are common self medicators, "self added" to the mix, because it makes them feel "sharp" or more "aware". Those also contribute to a more present state of psychosis and schizoaffective disorder.

I have yet to personally know anyone who has bipolar with added disorders, feel "normal" on whatever cocktail they've been prescribed.

 

[LambChop]

I don't think that is always true. For example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-two-years-later-release-mental-hospital.html

I also think she is a danger to her ex-husband.


jmo

 

[Nymeria]

Sorry to monopolize things this afternoon. One quick question, and then I'm off to finish the laundry and go out and do some gardening.

I've been checking to find out what would happen if JS were found guilty and what would happen if she were found not guilty.

If guilty, she'd get 25 years to life (can't see her living more than 25 years -- she's aged 2 decades in the past 3 years)

But what if not guilty due to insanity? Would she be committed to an institution -- and how long? Or would she just be let out on the streets? Where would she go?

I've been searching the web, but can't yet find what they do in Florida.

This post covers it

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Julie Schenecker's trial in children's slayings set for Apr 28 Tampa FL#2

 

[Whiteorchids]

Emails- http://tbo.com/assets/pdf/TB48127.PDF

I think I am in the minority. I feel like most of her family really was doing all they could to help. I think her final couple of months when she started drinking with the meds just pushed it all to the breaking point (with her and with the family).

That being said, I think they should have committed her.
She needed intensive help, and I think she should have been in a hospital were it would have been regulated.

Here in CA the family could have called the EVT evaluation team (white coats) to evaluate her and they make the decision to commit you against your will. If he PS had the LPS Conservatorship he could have had her committed against her will also.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Exactly!!!!! And where was her "support"? Weeks on end in bed? Come on! MI or not, that is a MAJOR red flag.

Many patients don't like the "fuzziness", sleepiness, weight gain,motivation, slowed reaction and thinking processes Lithium causes. Some feel great after getting on Lithium and think they don't need it anymore <---major reason why many stop. They don't connect the "feeling great" with "taking the Lithium".

Alcohol and methamphetamines/speed/coke are common self medicators, "self added" to the mix, because it makes them feel "sharp" or more "aware". Those also contribute to a more present state of psychosis and schizoaffective disorder.

I have yet to personally know anyone who has bipolar with added disorders, feel "normal" on whatever cocktail they've been prescribed.

Lithium is a mood stabilizer not an anti-psychotic. The Lithium alone doesn't work for schizoaffective disorder.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

But, does your bipolar have psychotic features and schizoaffective disorder as the defense stated in their opening?

And isn't a huge issue to being "well" getting the right "cocktail" of medications, add the effects of hormonal changes during menopause (she was 50), and a solid support system?

My point was that as an adult, you are responsible for yourself. You can choose to react to setbacks, mental illness, bad childhoods, etc., by blaming everyone but yourself.

Getting drunk and taking pain pills, chain smoking and laying in bed for 7 weeks is not a great way to choose to live. Julie was an affluent woman--she had so very many other options than destroying her children.

And mental illness, even schizophrenia, is not an excuse for murder. She was more than able to hold it together to buy the weapons. Mental illness doesn't come and go. Was she shaking and suffering Tardive dyskinesia at Lock & Load? When she was writing her "journals?" Nope.

She bought hollow points. And we only have Julie's version of what her kids were like. She may have been horribly abusive to them, refusing to parent, being verbally abusive & ranting about their father for all we know.

Teens talking back to their parents is hardly a crime punishable by a point blank gunshot to the face and head. With bullets designed to blow your face off. Are you kidding me?!

Bottom line: Julie decided not to avail herself of the many, many, many other choices she had as a woman with money. She chose to shoot her children in the face and head and rub it in her husband's face.

JMO

 

[Abigail]

She would be not guilty by reason of insanity. She would be committed for the rest of her life because of the severity of her crimes. The hospitals would be liable if they let this woman out and she killed again. These hospitals are prisons for the insane and they are locked up in cells. People think its more like a hospital. It is not. Their are different levels of sanity. When my sister worked at Patton State Hospital this really cute guy (patient) fell in love with her. She said he was so sweet and wrote her poems. She read his chart and that he had killed his mother and cut her heart out. There are patients their who have eaten people after killing them. Seriously it's horrific. I think she belongs here.

She would have a better chance, but most likely of getting out of prison when eligible for parole with no prior criminal history unless her sentence was 25 years to life with no eligibility for parole. I think going to the Hospital would be better because she would never be let out in my opinion. Some people like Prison because they have classes, get jobs, play sports. That's why I want her to go to a hospital. Not as much to do.

Thanks -- so that means, whichever way the verdict goes, she's going to be locked up somewhere for a very long time.

ETA: or not...guess it's possible (although unlikely) that she could be released and receive outpatient care; or that she could be committed against her will, but released at a later date.

That reminds me of a case about 20 years ago in central Florida. Retired chemistry teacher from my high school killed his wife (who was my mother's very good friend) -- a failed murder/suicide (well, the suicide part failed) and apparently was found not guilty due to insanity (I wasn't living there at the time, just got my Mom's version). Anyway, he wasn't committed (he was over 70, at this point); instead he was released to the care of his daughter, who took him into her home until he died several years later. I found it hard to imagine that she would have the guy who killed her mother around her children...