Mrs. Badcrumble
The North remembers
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2018
- Messages
- 1,869
- Reaction score
- 9,909
If I remember correctly from Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe's thread, serial numbers on breast implants didn't come until late 80s/early 90s.
FL FL - Clermont, WhtMale UP6030, 24-32, transgender, breast implants, Sep'88
- Thread starter Murkywaters
- Start date
How much could the police learn from Jasmine Fiore's fake breasts?
rbbm.
"When police found the remains of former Playboy model Jasmine Fiore on Aug. 15, her body was so mutilated that they had to use the serial numbers on her breast implants to identify her. How much information can be gleaned from a fake breast?
The owner’s name, address, phone number, and Social Security number, as well as the contact information for her surgeon and primary-care doctor. By checking an implant’s serial number against a manufacturer database, police can also learn the date of implantation, whether the fake breast was on the left or right side of the body, and whether the implant had to be removed or replaced at any point.
According to government rules first applied to the industry in the early 1990s, every silicone breast implant must carry an imprinted serial number. After the surgery, a doctor enters the number (or places an appropriately bar-coded sticker) onto each of three device-tracking forms (PDF). Copies go to the patient, the doctor, and the manufacturer. (Manufacturers also put serial numbers on saline implants, though the FDA stopped requiring them to track those devices closely in 1997.)"
rbbm.
"When police found the remains of former Playboy model Jasmine Fiore on Aug. 15, her body was so mutilated that they had to use the serial numbers on her breast implants to identify her. How much information can be gleaned from a fake breast?
The owner’s name, address, phone number, and Social Security number, as well as the contact information for her surgeon and primary-care doctor. By checking an implant’s serial number against a manufacturer database, police can also learn the date of implantation, whether the fake breast was on the left or right side of the body, and whether the implant had to be removed or replaced at any point.
According to government rules first applied to the industry in the early 1990s, every silicone breast implant must carry an imprinted serial number. After the surgery, a doctor enters the number (or places an appropriately bar-coded sticker) onto each of three device-tracking forms (PDF). Copies go to the patient, the doctor, and the manufacturer. (Manufacturers also put serial numbers on saline implants, though the FDA stopped requiring them to track those devices closely in 1997.)"
Melt71
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- Messages
- 2,856
- Reaction score
- 8,194
If the implants were done overseas in a medical tourism destination then we may be looking in the wrong place too. Just one example Thailand is a well-known destination for gender reassignment surgery, and has been for a long time. Their records may not be kept to the same level of detail, depending on their country's law.
This is great news!
Melt71
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- Messages
- 2,856
- Reaction score
- 8,194
Gave me goosebumps this morning to see Julie's first stats appear on the DDP spreadsheet - she already has many more higher-level matches than most other cases. And although on the face of it none are close relatives, the sheer number may help pinpoint family lines and will ultimately still be useful in solving this case.
No, it just gives the amount of matches, how big they are, etc.
I think Julie is from Florida. Although this isn’t always accurate, isotope testing showed that she was probably from Florida.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2018
- Messages
- 10,819
- Reaction score
- 37,467
I had forgotten about something until seeing a notification on the thread... I was searching newspapers.com several weeks ago and came across something that caught my attention. Can’t remember what I was searching for that generated these articles, but they pertain to “Human Sexuality Conference”s.
I think I was searching a particular name and the photos of some of the speakers reminded me of Julie...IDK. Apparently the conferences were held in several places across the country and in some places had become controversial. Personally, I’d never heard of these conferences but they could be well known. It was the dates and place of one in particular that made me think of Julie:
Florida Today August 20, 1988
Sept. 29 - Oct. 1, 1988 in Orlando
The Palm Beach Post September 24, 1988
I thought I clipped several others but I guess not. This may or may not be relevant but it stood out to me, especially reading more about the conference itself...
FWIW, JMO
Thank you for all the updates on the DDP cases!
I think I was searching a particular name and the photos of some of the speakers reminded me of Julie...IDK. Apparently the conferences were held in several places across the country and in some places had become controversial. Personally, I’d never heard of these conferences but they could be well known. It was the dates and place of one in particular that made me think of Julie:
Florida Today August 20, 1988
Sept. 29 - Oct. 1, 1988 in Orlando
The Palm Beach Post September 24, 1988
I thought I clipped several others but I guess not. This may or may not be relevant but it stood out to me, especially reading more about the conference itself...
FWIW, JMO
Thank you for all the updates on the DDP cases!
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
Thanks. Where do you see everything? I looked on FB and her case on DDP's website
It is under DDP's pinned Facebook post
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
It is under DDP's pinned Facebook post
Thanks. I didn't realize they update it lol. I wasn't signed up for comments. I thought they would make new posts. Live and learn
SpreadAwarenessNow
Member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2020
- Messages
- 33
- Reaction score
- 132
Was this comparison submitted?
Mors_Et_Vita
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2020
- Messages
- 44
- Reaction score
- 197
I was watching a video on this case recently, and have come to wonder if Julie was truly transgender or suffered a hormonal imbalance causing her to have an XY genotype, possibly Swyer syndrome. Originally, when the autopsy was done, the coroner believed she had given birth at least once during her life. It is worth noting that those suffering with Swyer syndrome may be able to give birth if they become pregnant with a donated egg or embryo ( Swyer syndrome).
What makes me somewhat question the transgender theory was the fact that she had female genitalia, and being trans, she would have had to have gone through bottom surgery for that to be done. I have read some history about transgender medical history and it appears that such surgeries were very uncommon then, especially ones done by medical experts and documented in records.
I mean no disrespect to anyone in the trans community and I personally believe she was trans, I'm just putting this out there as a possibility.
http://murdervillage.com/
''Trans Victims
“Transgender” is a broad term. Trans people have a gender identity different from the gender they were born with. “Trans” is a shortform for transgender.
When a trans person is murdered, identifying them as trans can be a problem. Sometimes they will called a transvestite, transsexual or transgender person. A person’s gender identity can be hard to get right, especially if they are dead and unable to say for themselves. These things are never set in stone, and they change depending on time, place, context and on who you’re talking to. Sometimes, years after a murder, the deceased will be identified as a different gender.
Gendering a murder victim can be hard, but we have tried our best to be accurate.
Many trans victims were sex workers. This makes them vulnerable to violence.''
''Trans Victims
“Transgender” is a broad term. Trans people have a gender identity different from the gender they were born with. “Trans” is a shortform for transgender.
When a trans person is murdered, identifying them as trans can be a problem. Sometimes they will called a transvestite, transsexual or transgender person. A person’s gender identity can be hard to get right, especially if they are dead and unable to say for themselves. These things are never set in stone, and they change depending on time, place, context and on who you’re talking to. Sometimes, years after a murder, the deceased will be identified as a different gender.
Gendering a murder victim can be hard, but we have tried our best to be accurate.
Many trans victims were sex workers. This makes them vulnerable to violence.''
madamx
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2014
- Messages
- 5,381
- Reaction score
- 10,039
no I just posted it here if you want to submit your more than welcomed!
Bit of hope
Life is a long lesson in humility.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2016
- Messages
- 11,908
- Reaction score
- 36,983
This is was said about the autopsy findings by DNA Doe project. Transgender Julie Doe - DNA Doe Project Cases
The autopsy conducted in 1988 revealed she had a previously fractured cheekbone and a broken nose. She also had a healed rib fracture. The autopsy incorrectly concluded that she was a cisgender woman who had given birth to at least one child. However, when the remains were tested again, DNA revealed that the decedent had an XY genotype and was a transgender woman who had gender reassignment surgery, which was uncommon for the era. She had breast implants that dated from no later than 1984 and the surgery was most likely performed in either Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, New York City, or California. She also had a rhinoplasty and had likely been on hormone therapy for several years before her death.
The autopsy conducted in 1988 revealed she had a previously fractured cheekbone and a broken nose. She also had a healed rib fracture. The autopsy incorrectly concluded that she was a cisgender woman who had given birth to at least one child. However, when the remains were tested again, DNA revealed that the decedent had an XY genotype and was a transgender woman who had gender reassignment surgery, which was uncommon for the era. She had breast implants that dated from no later than 1984 and the surgery was most likely performed in either Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, New York City, or California. She also had a rhinoplasty and had likely been on hormone therapy for several years before her death.
Nancy Drew RN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2013
- Messages
- 696
- Reaction score
- 2,453
I believe based on the conditions of the remains, it may not have been possible to tell if she had had bottom surgery. It was assumed based on the clothing and breast implants that she was assigned female at birth. The theory that she had given birth was based on physical findings (pelvic pitting) that can also be caused by taking hormones as part of a transition. When the bones were examined later, the person immediately felt that they were not those of someone who was AFAB, let alone someone who had given birth.
Bit of hope
Life is a long lesson in humility.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2016
- Messages
- 11,908
- Reaction score
- 36,983
Personally I think a discussion about the autopsy findings...no or yes...operated...or whatever, is not (considering the case taken with DNA Doe Project) relevant any more. I will just wait and see.
I was recently sort of doing some research, if it could be called that, and it furthered my confusion about transgender people. Back in the day (very early 2000's), I would go to bars with a friend of mine and there were usually drag "shows" (for lack of a better term) on the nights we'd go. Those were basically drag queens getting up on stage and lip-synching little concerts. My friend got on my nerves a couple of weeks ago, so I decided to send him lots of pics of a particular drag queen that I know he hates for some reason (I'm still not exactly sure why). Maybe it was because that particular one sang the same damned Gwen Stefani and Kelly Clarkson songs every weekend. I don't know, but he still doesn't like them.
I had always been under the impression that transgender people are people born in the wrong physical (private parts) body. And that "drag queens" were really guys that just had fun dressing up and putting on a show every once in a while, if that makes sense. Meeting a few of them furthered that belief when I saw them looking like regular guys when they were off stage. I wish everything could be that simple, but simply being human is super-complicated even before you factor in sexuality. In looking through a bunch of old pictures of drag queens for the one he hates, I saw that some of them obviously had implants. So they really couldn't have passed for a guy during the week (*advertiser censored*, if I can say that) and performed as a drag queen on the weekends.
I wonder how common it would be for someone who's not truly trapped in the wrong body (i.e. actually identifying as transgender) to go as far as getting breast implants? They could also do many things that are less drastic, like lip implants or botox. Some of the lesser procedures (i.e. botox) probably wouldn't be noted post-mortem as implants would.
And since NamUS says the post-mortem was around 8-mos, I wonder how long someone who hasn't had the full surgical change would have their "guy junk" detectable after that much decomposition has happened.
I had always been under the impression that transgender people are people born in the wrong physical (private parts) body. And that "drag queens" were really guys that just had fun dressing up and putting on a show every once in a while, if that makes sense. Meeting a few of them furthered that belief when I saw them looking like regular guys when they were off stage. I wish everything could be that simple, but simply being human is super-complicated even before you factor in sexuality. In looking through a bunch of old pictures of drag queens for the one he hates, I saw that some of them obviously had implants. So they really couldn't have passed for a guy during the week (*advertiser censored*, if I can say that) and performed as a drag queen on the weekends.
I wonder how common it would be for someone who's not truly trapped in the wrong body (i.e. actually identifying as transgender) to go as far as getting breast implants? They could also do many things that are less drastic, like lip implants or botox. Some of the lesser procedures (i.e. botox) probably wouldn't be noted post-mortem as implants would.
And since NamUS says the post-mortem was around 8-mos, I wonder how long someone who hasn't had the full surgical change would have their "guy junk" detectable after that much decomposition has happened.