FL FL - Clermont, WhtMale UP6030, 24-32, transgender, breast implants, Sep'88

[proctorelites]

Thanks, but thinking BA is too petite, imo.
Babette Nadine Alberti – The Charley Project
''Height and Weight 4'11 - 5'1, 85 - 105 pounds''

I thought this doe was a male to female transgender? Would Babette fall into that category? I understand this means the missing personwe are searching for would be genetically identified as a male through DNA. Was the DNA ultimately identified as a female on the doe?

 

[devertere]

aaah both of you are correct. i had the picture in my mind where her neck looks like it has an adam's apple, so i assumed she was transgender ...

 

[MadMcGoo]

I came across this guy and although he would be a little older than what Julie doe was thought to be. I wanted to post him anyway. He had a lot of time to change. Something that caught my eye were the similarities in features to Julie. Plus for a guy he had what looks to me as really nice manicured eyebrows..Which is something that stood out to me in Julies first sketch and her second sketch.

On August 24, 1978, Maxwell “Maxie” Allen Graham was reported missing by his family from his home in Pinewood. Investigators think that Graham may have left his home on August 8, 1978, with another man named “Scott”. They may have been in a two-tone pick-up truck.

Race: White
Sex: Male
Height: 5’10”
Weight: 150 lbs
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown​

Sumter County Sheriff's Office - South Carolina - Cold Case - Maxwell "Maxie" Graham (1978)

I came across Maxie’s profile today and immediately thought of Julie. Did you happen to submit this?

 

[dotr]

I came across Maxie’s profile today and immediately thought of Julie. Did you happen to submit this?

Maxwell Allen Graham – The Charley Project
Maxwell Allen Graham

• 
  
  
  Trans Doe Task Force

 

[devertere]

Maxwell Allen Graham – The Charley Project
Maxwell Allen Graham

• 
  
  
  Trans Doe Task Force

WHOA really good match. only thing i see a bit differing is that maxie seems to have a very symmetrical face and julie doesn't, but that could have a million reasons.

i'd definitely submit maxie, she looks so similar.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I imagine this is most likely another case of a doppelgänger, as Maxie isn’t new to the databases, but the resemblance is striking.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I found a 1969 North Greenville University yearbook photo that shows his teeth...it’s hard to tell, but I think they’re different. Not to say they couldn’t have changed appearance over the course of 2 decades though.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I thought about it all day...it was hard to get the images out of my mind. I went ahead and submitted this to Doe Network. Maxie had a relatively detailed and clear dental chart available, so hopefully it would be an easy comparison.

 

[av.cooper517]

Holy cow. That actually gave me chills. Looks just like the reconstruction photo. Did you contact Namus about this possible match?

Hey, thanks so much for the replies, guys! Sorry I haven't been on in a while. The upheaval of 2020 took up a great deal of my time but Julie's story was on my mind tonight and I came across this thread. I actually forgot I posted this!

Thanks so much for contacting the Doe Network. No, I hadn't done it myself or contacted NAMUS as I'm new to websleuthing but Joseph's jaw, eyes, and bleached hair caught my attention and wasn't sure where to begin. I knew someone would be able to help out! Thanks again.

I don't see an update on here so tonight I messaged the official for the case on NAMUS with my findings. I'll let you guys know if I hear anything.

 

[carbuff]

WHOA really good match. only thing i see a bit differing is that maxie seems to have a very symmetrical face and julie doesn't, but that could have a million reasons.

i'd definitely submit maxie, she looks so similar.

And one of the reasons could be the rhinoplasty Julie is said to have had.

I"m inclined to the accidental doppelgänger view myself, but Maxie is a very close match.

 

[madamx]

Bump

 

[madamx]

Could she be Elizabeth Bodor? Missing from Orlando . They did think this person was a lady in the Beginning.
FL - FL - Elizabeth Bodor, 23, Orlando, 22 March 1988

 

[Susikatze]

Not possible as Julie had definite XY chromosomes.

 

[madamx]

Not possible as Julie had definite XY chromosomes.

I don’t know how true this is but I just read a woman can be born with XY chromosomes. I have no idea. This in not my field of expertise.

 

[UnlicensedPI]

I don’t know how true this is but I just read a woman can be born with XY chromosomes. I have no idea. This in not my field of expertise.

"Julie" was thought to be female due to the pitting of the pelvis. They initially assumed this was due to giving birth. Someone with androgen insensitivity syndrome would likely be infertile and (from my understanding) absolutely lacking a uterus. This pelvic pitting also occurs due to HRT, so the presence of it with the XY chromosomes indicates a transgender male instead of an intersex/female mother.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm posting before coffee

 

[madamx]

"Julie" was thought to be female due to the pitting of the pelvis. They initially assumed this was due to giving birth. Someone with androgen insensitivity syndrome would likely be infertile and (from my understanding) absolutely lacking a uterus. This pelvic pitting also occurs due to HRT, so the presence of it with the XY chromosomes indicates a transgender male instead of an intersex/female mother.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm posting before coffee

hehehe. Your cracking me up . It’s ok Iam sure you are. I still don’t know Hehehehe.

 

[MarziPanda]

Could she be Elizabeth Bodor? Missing from Orlando . They did think this person was a lady in the Beginning.
FL - FL - Elizabeth Bodor, 23, Orlando, 22 March 1988

Small note - this doe IS a lady. Whether she's cis or trans or intersex, she presented as female and clearly identified as such, so she's a lady.

Whilst there are a small number of conditions that would make it possible for her to have been a cis woman with an intersex condition, those are very rare and it's more likely that she was trans considering everything else we know about her (breast implants etc).

 

[madamx]

Small note - this doe IS a lady. Whether she's cis or trans or intersex, she presented as female and clearly identified as such, so she's a lady.

Whilst there are a small number of conditions that would make it possible for her to have been a cis woman with an intersex condition, those are very rare and it's more likely that she was trans considering everything else we know about her (breast implants etc).

Ok back to the drawing board.

 

[Tristana]

I'm new to this thread, but the case of Julie Doe fascinates me.

I don't believe Maxwell Graham and Julie Doe are the same person. Let me explain.

The pitting in pelvic bones indicates Julie must have been under hormone therapy at an age where her bones were still growing, BEFORE 19-20. Given the time period and the fact HRT was really uncommon at the time, it's safe to assume she was at the younger end of the 22-35 age range, because...well, considering it's still a very medicalised process nowadays, I fail to see how someone could have got hormone replacement therapy in 1975. Being trans was probably considered a mental illness back then.

Which leaves us with two possibilities :

1) Her family knew she was trans and paid for the treatment. Either they didn't report her missing because they assumed she had just decided to start fresh elsewhere, or the police said she was a crossdressing man in the missing person report. It's also possible the report has not been added to databases yet.

2) She realised she was trans around puberty, ran away at a young age because she didn't want her family to know and she started living as a transient. She probably ended up working as some kind of escort and eventually got enough money to pay for HRT and breast implants.

Either way, I think Maxwell does not fit in such circumstances. He seems like he was a high school jock, from what I read about him. And the day he left, it seems like he was expecting to come back quickly. Definitely doesn't seem like a desperate person who doesn't know what to do because they realised they were trans.

 

[carbuff]

I fail to see how someone could have got hormone replacement therapy in 1975. Being trans was probably considered a mental illness back then.

snipped for focus

This is only partly true. Yeah, there was a lot of "mental illness" and other nonacceptance, but transgender surgery (and related treatments) started to be well known in the mid-60s. The degree of acceptance depended very much on where you lived, and Europe was quite a bit ahead of the US. A person I went to college with in the early 70's went to Sweden to have her transition done. She lived there for 3-4 years and I didn't hear from her after that. (no, no chance she's Julie)

If I recall, she had to live as a woman for 2-3 years before that to make sure that's what she really wanted but she definitely had hormone treatments and cosmetic treatments like depilation before she left.

Minneapolis passed the first transgender rights ordinances in 1975.