FL FL - Clermont, WhtMale UP6030, 24-32, transgender, breast implants, Sep'88

[carbuff]

I fail to see how someone could have got hormone replacement therapy in 1975. Being trans was probably considered a mental illness back then.

snipped for focus

This is only partly true. Yeah, there was a lot of "mental illness" and other nonacceptance, but transgender surgery (and related treatments) started to be well known in the mid-60s. The degree of acceptance depended very much on where you lived, and Europe was quite a bit ahead of the US. A person I went to college with in the early 70's went to Sweden to have her transition done. She lived there for 3-4 years and I didn't hear from her after that. (no, no chance she's Julie)

If I recall, she had to live as a woman for 2-3 years before that to make sure that's what she really wanted but she definitely had hormone treatments and cosmetic treatments like depilation before she left.

Minneapolis passed the first transgender rights ordinances in 1975.

 

[Susikatze]

Agree. Just wanted to say that there were quite active and also fairly vocal TG scenes in the big cities. Many of the members were sex workers but certainly not all. And while the infrastructure for gender (re)assignment was not as big and public as today, if you were in those circles you certainly had some degree of access to doctors who off label did hormone replacement therapy and surgeries. Many back then for final genital surgery went to other countries with more experience such as some Scandinavian countries and Thailand, but we do not know whether Julie had that or not. I guess her remains were decomposed or skeletonized?

Either way, in the late 1970s, it was not impossible. Harder, yes. But possible.

 

[Tristana]

I guess her remains were decomposed or skeletonized?

They were mummified, apparently. But given how heavy such a surgery is, she probably would have stayed in the country for some time and the isotope analysis (which confirmed she was native to Florida) should have shown something like that.

 

[Tristana]

Also, thanks for the reply regarding hormone therapy. I thought it was almost impossible back then.

 

[Susikatze]

Not neccesarily,it would take about 3-4 weeks to fully recover.That is just a bit longer than your average vacation.
Also depends on what they did.
A bit unrelated, because I am a total XX cisgender hetero female, but i was chopped up for endometriosis surgery with bowel and other organ parts removed. That took me about 4 weeks to recover. Heavy does not mean you need to stay for months.

They were mummified, apparently. But given how heavy such a surgery is, she probably would have stayed in the country for some time and the isotope analysis (which confirmed she was native to Florida) should have shown something like that.

 

[Nancy Drew RN]

I am no authority, but if the pitting on pelvic bones occurs in women who are pregnant (believed to be due to a combination of hormonal and physical changes), that implies to me that this pitting would occur with hormone therapy regardless of what age they were taken by the person.

 

[Susikatze]

Yes the body is always restructuring itself. Hormone replacement therapy is very heavy and does leave marks on the body (actually same with people who go through fertility treatments or hormone replacement after cancer).

 

[madamx]

Ok so this guy spent most of the 1980s in Florida. Last time he called his parents in Minnesota Collect was August 1987.. I am assuming they had not seen him since most of the 1980s he was in Florida.. so with that he could of changed and his family not really knows. Anyway what caught my eye was his really nicely shaped eye brows.. they are nicer than mine ha!

Anyway I thought I would post. If he is on this thread sorry. I know I posted a bunch on f people on here already but I had not seen this guy. Also the photo they have of him.. who knows when it’s from. Does not look like he has a nose job in the photo.

FL - FL - Kevin Lawrence Isaacs, 27, Bradenton, 27 Aug 1987

 

[snowgoose]

I see that Julie's page was recently updated on NamUs. Were any new rule-outs added?

 

[Bodhi]

I am just seeing this thread for the first time. I am a bit confused about the title. Can someone tell me why a trans woman is listed as male? Is that standard practice on WS? I haven't noticed it before. TIA.

 

[CptCari]

I am just seeing this thread for the first time. I am a bit confused about the title. Can someone tell me why a trans woman is listed as male? Is that standard practice on WS? I haven't noticed it before. TIA.

Because Namus lists the biological sex of the UID. It isn't a note to gender, just biological sex.

 

[carbuff]

Current exclusions. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
MP20826 John Degnan III 11/02/1980 Broward FL
MP17748 John Higham 06/24/1980 Los Angeles CA
MP5074 Wendy Huggy 04/07/1982 Pinellas FL
MP53727 Kevin Isaacs 08/27/1987 Manatee FL

 

[Bodhi]

I appreciate your explanation, CptCari. Thank you. I was hesitant to ask but I am glad I did. Now it makes sense to me.

 

[Susikatze]

Because Namus lists the biological sex of the UID. It isn't a note to gender, just biological sex.

Also I think because gender is sometimes very fluid and impossible to tell how a persons gender identity was in case of an UID. If you identify them and ask friends and family, you may find out. But just from an UID, very hard to tell. Sure, breast implants imply a trans woman but it is not set in stone at all.
LE may surely slap a trans or genderfluid person into the face by stating their biological sex, but it is all they can do and it may aid in identification as family members may know them as their sex assigned at birth and not as trans person.

 

[Bit of hope]

I appreciate your explanation, CptCari. Thank you. I was hesitant to ask but I am glad I did. Now it makes sense to me.

I appreciate you just asked..Sometimes I think we got far to sensitive in this matter.. I come from a background where transgender people are more accepted, but off course in general it's something people notice and talk about. Not everybody is that tolerant, understands it or feels compassion. Especially the words we use.....for me they are not "they". For me....if you want to express yourself as a woman...you are a woman to me and the same the other way around. I know a couple of transgender persons and I totally accept the way they present themselves. To be honest, sometimes it's a bit 'getting used to" a different chosen name. It takes some time. All of it has nothing to do with your biological sex. My father's best friend killed himself at a very young age, because he couldn't get peace with the fact he felt a woman inside....this was ages ago....but sometimes I feel there are places in this world it's still not accepted. But in a case of an unidentified person....yes....I think it's logic to go by the biological sex (and what a mistakes they made in this particular case, to begin with)

 

[madamx]

Ok so Because Iam always on the hunt for my fellow Cubans, I came across this today.
As I have mentioned in the thread early on many gay Cubans came in 1980 through the Mariel Boatlift.

Fidel at this point opened up the prisons and with boats that went to pick up legit family they also were required to take others with them. (I actually had a cousin go twice to pick up family and other people this way.) It was nuts. In the prisons were many gays because if you were openly gay in Cuba you went to prison. Anyway this brings me to why Iam writing this.

I happen to come across a site that featured many Cuban refugees, immigrants and all the things that happen to them after they came to America. It’s kind of sad, anyway... There are many photos and one of the photos resembles Julie Doe to me. Unfortunately I could not find any info on who the person is or what became of them. I just thought I would post because of the eery similarity.

Iam looking to see if I can find any more info on this. Let me know what you guys think.

I also converted the photo into black and white to compare. I also posted the link.

With Open Hearts & Open Arms

 

[djanga]

Ok so Because Iam always on the hunt for my fellow Cubans, I came across this today.
As I have mentioned in the thread early on many gay Cubans came in 1980 through the Mariel Boatlift.

Fidel at this point opened up the prisons and with boats that went to pick up legit family they also were required to take others with them. (I actually had a cousin go twice to pick up family and other people this way.) It was nuts. In the prisons were many gays because if you were openly gay in Cuba you went to prison. Anyway this brings me to why Iam writing this.

I happen to come across a site that featured many Cuban refugees, immigrants and all the things that happen to them after they came to America. It’s kind of sad, anyway... There are many photos and one of the photos resembles Julie Doe to me. Unfortunately I could not find any info on who the person is or what became of them. I just thought I would post because of the eery similarity.

Iam looking to see if I can find any more info on this. Let me know what you guys think.

I also converted the photo into black and white to compare. I also posted the link.

With Open Hearts & Open Arms

Wow, they look alike, the only doubt I have: according to the ethnicity chart pie and O4 Julie is primarily of English/German/Dutch ancestry . Her ethnical pie chart is almost identical to James Freund (Sumter co John Doe).

 

[madamx]

Wow, they look alike, the only doubt I have: according to the ethnicity chart pie and O4 Julie is primarily of English/German/Dutch ancestry . Her ethnical pie chart is almost identical to James Freund (Sumter co John Doe).

oh crap djanga...I did not know that. I guess I missed that on this thread.. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I had no idea. I guess that is not Julie Doe.. sigh.. I thought I found her ha!

I don’t know if it helps or not but I do know that there were people from all over that ended up in Cuba for one reason or another. As my friend always puts it.. Cubans are a mixed salad.

Cubans - Wikipedia

Seeking Refuge in Cuba, 1939

When Cuba Opened Its Doors to Jewish Refugees - Havana Times

 

[Susikatze]

Our Julie is clearly also not of Ashkenazi or Sephardic Jewish descent.
Many countries in the Latin and Latinocaribbean world did have a substantial influx of German and Swiss settlers. No idea about whether that pertains to Cuba, though.

I still think our Julie was American of German and probably some British Isles heritage. Yes, like Jim Freund.

 

[madamx]

Yeah we Cubans are from everywhere. Hence.. the mix salad.

In the 2012 Census of Cuba, 64.1% of the inhabitants self-identified as white. Based on genetic testing (2014) in Cuba, the average European, African and Native American ancestry in those auto-reporting to be white were 86%, 6.7%, and 7.8%.[23]
The majority of the European ancestry comes from Spain. During the 18th, 19th and early part of the 20th century especially, large waves of Canary Islanders, Galicians, Asturians and Catalansemigrated from Spain to Cuba.
Other European nationalities with significant influx include: English, French, Germans, Irish, Italians, Poles and Scots.
Europeans with lesser influx were Greeks, Portuguese, Romaniansand Russians. Central and Eastern European influence was mostly during the Cold War years and immigration from the British Isles was mostly to Havana and Pinar del Rio Province. There is a small remnant of Jewish communities and there are also diverse Levantine peoples, mainly Lebanese, Palestinians and Syrians.


The Afro-Cuban population was 9.3% in the 2012 Census of Cuba. Just about 1.3 million Cubans described themselves as black.[19]
Thus a significant proportion of those living on the island affirm some sub-Saharan African ancestry. The matter is further complicated by the fact that a fair number of people still locate their origins in specific African ethnic groups or regions, particularly the Akan, Yoruba (or Lucumí), Igbo and Congo, but also Arará, Carabalí, Mandingo, Fula, Makua, and others.
Based on genetic testing in 2014, the average European, African and Native American ancestry in those self-reporting to be "negro (Black)" 65.5% were purely "African", 29% had some "European" ancestry and 5.5% had "Native American" or other ancestry.[23]

Although Afro-Cubans can be found throughout Cuba, Eastern Cuba has a higher concentration of blacks than other parts of the island, and Havanahas the largest population of blacks of any city in Cuba.[citation needed]