GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU law professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #2 *Arrests*

[Jen Darme]

Further expanding on why I respectfully feel you are incorrect or missing something:

I just decided to use your method, Google Maps, and it shows the following for North Miami to Betton Hills in Tallahassee; in order of fastest to slowest time:

Florida Turnpike - 6 hrs 30 min (473 miles)
I-95 to I-75 - 6 hrs 57 min (499 miles)
I-75 to I-10: 7 hrs 42 min (546 miles)
US-27/US-19 the whole way: 9 hrs (470 miles)

RSBM

Keep in mind those are times without traffic. Add time for each pass through the city.

 

[dotr]

I've been wondering if the cut across Alligator Alley was to avoid major cities and perhaps to stop to see someone in Tampa. That was before I read that Rivera claimed he'd not been north of Tampa. I've made the trip between Tally/Dothan and the Tampa Bay Area countless times. US 41 - 19/98 - 27 has always been almost as fast, if not faster, as I-75/I-10 and without the monotony, endless semis, tourists, and traffic. Speed limits are a bit more ... flexible. Google says 8 hrs doing the speed limit. They went through the eastern AA toll booth at 2:18 pm and checked in at a Tally hotel at about 1 am. Three hours for food and rest stops? I think it's more likely they stopped for a visit.

rbbm.
Thinking that if they did in fact " stop for a visit " it was to meet with the mystery " witness".
imo. speculation.

 

[Jen Darme]

rbbm.
Thinking that if they did in fact " stop for a visit " it was to meet with the mystery " witness".
imo. speculation.

Good point. I bet you're right.

 

[Razz]

I've been wondering if the cut across Alligator Alley was to avoid major cities and perhaps to stop to see someone in Tampa. That was before I read that Rivera claimed he'd not been north of Tampa. I've made the trip between Tally/Dothan and the Tampa Bay Area countless times. US 41 - 19/98 - 27 has always been almost as fast, if not faster, as I-75/I-10 and without the monotony, endless semis, tourists, and traffic. Speed limits are a bit more ... flexible. Google says 8 hrs doing the speed limit. They went through the eastern AA toll booth at 2:18 pm and checked in at a Tally hotel at about 1 am. Three hours for food and rest stops? I think it's more likely they stopped for a visit.

Hmmmm....An interesting thought. Do you have an idea who they may have visited and why?

I noted on their way back from Tallahassee to Miami they made
very good time. Probably no time for a visit then.

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[tallyeng]

Actually, google considers real time traffic in their calculations.

 

[floridamomma]

I expected further arrests by now. Hmmfph.

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[Jen Darme]

Hmmmm....An interesting thought. Do you have an idea who they may have visited and why?

I noted on their way back from Tallahassee to Miami they made
very good time. Probably no time for a visit then.

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No idea. One of the 23 Rivera got busted with in the sweep that put him in federal prison is a heroin dealer from Tampa. (More on some of the Tampa Kings in another post.) I do think dotr's idea that they met with the mystery witness in Tally is a good possibility.

 

[Jen Darme]

Actually, google considers real time traffic in their calculations.

How are you getting realistic estimates? Mine always say "<time> without traffic". For instance, selecting the daily commute, it correctly says 20 minutes without traffic. It's only 20 minutes between 11 pm and 6 am, 35 outside of rush hours and 45+ during.

 

[Jen Darme]

I'll be AFK for a bit but wanted to get this posted.

I talked with a friend, a professional and former Marine, recently about this case. He grew up in a large Hispanic neighborhood in Tampa and returned there to start a family when he left the military. His extended family live within a block or two of him which is common for many families there. He said there are Latin Kings living throughout his neighborhood and they are greatly appreciated. They know everyone, help out without question, and provide community policing in a way the city police dept can't. One of the examples he gave was if something disappears from his porch, all he has to do is put the word out and it'll be back in the morning.

There's a video at the link below of a former state prosecutor talking about the Kings. She talks about how gangs "eliminate" witnesses in their communities. "They pay them off, they put them in a nice house, they take care of their families..." Common with the Latin Kings is to put money in the jail accounts of people who went to jail for the Kings and then they also take care of their families. "They would make sure that their mothers had a good house and a nice car or that their wives and children were taken care of, that they were always included in the family, in the gatherings." While "the only thing law enforcement can offer is, 'well I won't prosecute you... you'll testify and then you'll be right back in the community you just ratted on.'"

She talks about how young men join for a sense of family and "the Kings do commit crimes but their true mission is not to commit crimes," that there is an organization of Kings who believe in clean living, education, &c.

My friend is seeing the good side of the Kings and we're seeing the bad. Also, something to consider with what we heard on the phone call, about who she should call for help moving.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-latin-kings-gang-florida-20141128-story.html

 

[atthelake]

How are you getting realistic estimates? Mine always say " without traffic". For instance, selecting the daily commute, it correctly says 20 minutes without traffic. It's only 20 minutes between 11 pm and 6 am, 35 outside of rush hours and 45+ during.

Google uses GPS on everybody's phone that is driving down the highway that has access and is connected. If you have Google Maps on your phone and you are an Android User you can see this. It's really cool because the maps will show red yellow green depending on the traffic flow of your route. It is real time!!

Of course for a 10-hour drive it won't be that accurate because the time of traffic will change. iykwim

:thinking: actually I'm not sure that Google doesn't have an algorithm that would calculate past rush hours and where you would be in 5 hours into their calculations! Does anyone know the answer to that or am I going to have to Google it?

You Apple folks got burnt when y'all lost Google for your Maps

ETA: OK, it does indeed do predictive traffic! I'm leaving for a 7 hour road trip tomorrow.. I'm gonna play with the predictive to check it out as I've only used it for real time on my phone.

ETA #2: That was fun! If I left on Monday during rush hour... it added another hour to my trip! Neat! Thanks for bringing this to my attention to look into ... ya learn so much here!

below from google.com/maps

 

[Jen Darme]

Google uses GPS on everybody's phone that is driving down the highway that has access and is connected. If you have Google Maps on your phone and you are an Android User you can see this. It's really cool because the maps will show red yellow green depending on the traffic flow of your route. It is real time!!

RSBM

Thanks so much! I rarely use Google Maps on my phone, I'll have to give it a try.

 

[atthelake]

RSBM

Thanks so much! I rarely use Google Maps on my phone, I'll have to give it a try.

I'm going to use Google Maps this coming week as I will be visiting a friend in Myrtle Beach area and want to visit some of the sites associated with another :websleuther: case

For years I volunteered in downtown ATLanta and I left at 4 p.m. The first thing I did when I walked out the door was to put into Google Maps my address because there were three ways to get to the suburbs. ( it seems there was often an accident on the interstate in Atlanta at rush hour)

It was fabulous! I took different routes as it would show backups due to accidents or heavy traffic that were not normal... All in real time.

A year ago I was headed somewhere and there was a plane crash on the interstate itself. I snuck around on back roads and I could have been stuck in traffic for 2 hours with others if I had not immediately clicked on my Google maps.

Try it, you'll like it!

 

[86Violet]

I'll be AFK for a bit but wanted to get this posted.

I talked with a friend, a professional and former Marine, recently about this case. He grew up in a large Hispanic neighborhood in Tampa and returned there to start a family when he left the military. His extended family live within a block or two of him which is common for many families there. He said there are Latin Kings living throughout his neighborhood and they are greatly appreciated. They know everyone, help out without question, and provide community policing in a way the city police dept can't. One of the examples he gave was if something disappears from his porch, all he has to do is put the word out and it'll be back in the morning.

There's a video at the link below of a former state prosecutor talking about the Kings. She talks about how gangs "eliminate" witnesses in their communities. "They pay them off, they put them in a nice house, they take care of their families..." Common with the Latin Kings is to put money in the jail accounts of people who went to jail for the Kings and then they also take care of their families. "They would make sure that their mothers had a good house and a nice car or that their wives and children were taken care of, that they were always included in the family, in the gatherings." While "the only thing law enforcement can offer is, 'well I won't prosecute you... you'll testify and then you'll be right back in the community you just ratted on.'"

She talks about how young men join for a sense of family and "the Kings do commit crimes but their true mission is not to commit crimes," that there is an organization of Kings who believe in clean living, education, &c.

My friend is seeing the good side of the Kings and we're seeing the bad. Also, something to consider with what we heard on the phone call, about who she should call for help moving.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-latin-kings-gang-florida-20141128-story.html

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Sad, really.

I still think, despite the gang ties, that the police will get KM to roll over on CA and whoever else was involved in the planning. Especially once she finds out that Garcia is going down regardless as the evidence against him is pretty overwhelming. She appears to just be a middle man so the state will be able to make her an enticing plea deal without public outrage. I believe she will choose that over missing her children's entire childhood.

 

[helmut3585]

The police do know and that's my point. They chose not to connect Charles Adelson with Rivera nor Garcia. Yet they chose to connect Kathy Magbanua with Rivera, something we didn't know before. Rivera had direct contact with Magbanua. That's what's shown in the diagram. So far there is nothing connecting the Adelson family with those who carried out the murder. Magabnua was the go-between. This is from page 8 of the newly released Attachment A. Maybe they chose the lines to indicate only friends or familial/marital ties. The pictures TPD used are freaky enough and I don't recall seeing them anywhere else. Given the common blue background, they seem to be DMV pictures.

Neither of us knows for sure but I suspect the police do. And it is jmo but I'm betting it is going to connect that particular dot just fine.

 

[dotr]

Why are they keeping Garcia in isolation, is that the usual procedure, what about seeking the death penalty?

rbbm.

The state argued they had clear evidence linking Garcia to the murder and recognized him as a flight risk, claiming that his indication to flee, along with his criminal history, makes Garcia a danger to the community.

Garcia's defense attorneys responded maintain the state has only presented hearsay statements that were not substantial evidence. Garcia's lead attorney, Jim Lewis, also argued that a proper hearing could not take place without questioning witnesses from law enforcement officials and asked that the hearing be moved until a subpoena could be issued.

The defense also asked to file motions regarding the state's plans to pursue the death penalty in the case, claiming his client should be provided with additional representation. He also asked to file a motion to improve Garcia's isolated living conditions in jail, which he claimed to be inhumane.

http://www.wtxl.com/court/markel-mu...cle_d6d40188-3a35-11e6-95c7-8bb71cbb9eab.html

 

[colette]

Why are they keeping Garcia in isolation, is that the usual procedure, what about seeking the death penalty?

rbbm.

http://www.wtxl.com/court/markel-mu...cle_d6d40188-3a35-11e6-95c7-8bb71cbb9eab.html

My guess it to make him talk and take a deal.

 

[Daun1234]

The police do know and that's my point. They chose not to connect Charles Adelson with Rivera nor Garcia. Yet they chose to connect Kathy Magbanua with Rivera, something we didn't know before. Rivera had direct contact with Magbanua. That's what's shown in the diagram. So far there is nothing connecting the Adelson family with those who carried out the murder. Magabnua was the go-between. This is from page 8 of the newly released Attachment A. Maybe they chose the lines to indicate only friends or familial/marital ties. The pictures TPD used are freaky enough and I don't recall seeing them anywhere else. Given the common blue background, they seem to be DMV pictures.

Looks like FL DMV pics, yes. The lines indicate relationship ties. We are probably over-thinking this; they don't indicate relationships between several people (Brother-Sister, Father-Daughter, Ex-BILs, etc.).
But, looks like Dad may be in the clear; he's off by himself in the far right-hand corner.
What's intriguing is the page number in the lower right-hand corner: Page 65. That's a lot of pages of evidence preceding this diagram! This would all make more sense with pages 1-64 available.

KM as the go-between sounds right but that doesn't mean that LE doesn't have lots of evidence of conspiracy. A delay before arrests does not mean that they need someone to flip- they probably don't.

 

[86Violet]

Looks like FL DMV pics, yes. The lines indicate relationship ties. We are probably over-thinking this; they don't indicate relationships between several people (Brother-Sister, Father-Daughter, Ex-BILs, etc.).
But, looks like Dad may be in the clear; he's off by himself in the far right-hand corner.
What's intriguing is the page number in the lower right-hand corner: Page 65. That's a lot of pages of evidence preceding this diagram! This would all make more sense with pages 1-64 available.

KM as the go-between sounds right but that doesn't mean that LE doesn't have lots of evidence of conspiracy. A delay before arrests does not mean that they need someone to flip- they probably don't.

I agree - they have loads of evidence that hasn't been publicized yet. They may not need someone to flip to get more indictments but I think KM's testimony is hugely important to nailing the family. And she will flip. She will realize that there is nothing she can do to save Garcia from doing life so she might as well save herself.

 

[dotr]

I agree - they have loads of evidence that hasn't been publicized yet. They may not need someone to flip to get more indictments but I think KM's testimony is hugely important to nailing the family. And she will flip. She will realize that there is nothing she can do to save Garcia from doing life so she might as well save herself.

The line " breaking all the rules " takes on new meaning in this case, imo.
[video=youtube;fPY2oW78V9U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPY2oW78V9U[/video]

 

[Razz]

dotr: you are too dang funny!

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