GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 *arrests* #10

[rgrene]

As

You don't need part two if you achieve part one - she 's to the only link to the Adelsons. If you can't convict Katie, regardless of if she does a plea deal or not , you can't convict Charlie or Wendi. To me Donna seems near untouchable. The only real links for her are:

1 her obvious hatred of Dan Markel the ex son in law and

2. The fact she signed off the cheques to KM , but as the office manager of the dental practice. You could not hang even a cat for that.

(what she said on the phone during the bump operation is not very incriminating). The business about organising the repair of the TV in Talla from Miami is very strange (Why would Wendi not do that locally ? Does she need her mum to help her cross the road too ? but the repair is timing could be just coincidental.


KG

As much as I like your posts KG, I have to respectfully disagree with your assumption that the master minds are going to "escape". I am strongly confident that regardless of what happens with the KM trial, 2 or 3 of the Adelson's will eventually be convicted. The jury of public already has them convicted. They are shunned by all their friends and are essentially unemployable. If they had been on trial with KM and the killers, I would have convicted all of them except Charlie's father, and I dare say 99% of the readers of this thread would have too. And with NO further testimony than what was said in the trial. But unless there is an OJ Simpson/ Sen Menendez tainted jury, KM will be convicted.

As an aside, I looked up your screen name and found Kidon, LLC was my next-door neighbor here in ft lauderdale. Their ofthe office is in Tel Aviv. They are some sort of investigative organization that is made of former Israeli diplomats and intelligence officers.

 

[GordonX]

A KM Acquittal weakens the case against the Alleged Masterminds but it will not prevent the State from going after them.

 

[ghibercz]

Three members of the Florida House voted against this bill yesterday. Two were family lawyers, so that makes sense based on the formal position of the Family Law Section of the Florida Bar. Then there's this guy, Rep. Michael Grieco. Who is he? Oh yeah, a law colleague and sometimes co-counsel of Michael Weinstein, the lifetime friend of Charlie Adelson, who came to his defense publicly, and acted as a conduit between Charlie and Katie Magbanua right after Sigfredo's arrest through Sigfredo's lawyer Jim Lewis - making sure Magbanua knew that Charlie wouldn't be talking to police, so she shouldn't either.

 

[rgrene]

A KM Acquittal weakens the case against the Alleged Masterminds but it will not prevent the State from going after them.

There will be no acquittal for KM. There is a slight chance of another hung jury if they get some more "OJ Simpson jurors". And the state might not go for a 3rd trial. Remember, she was not given bail by the originial judge because he said there is (paraphrasing) a "very high probability of guilt". I think the current jury system of justice in our great country is irreparably broken.

 

[KidonGadol]

I

Three members of the Florida House voted against this bill yesterday. Two were family lawyers, so that makes sense based on the formal position of the Family Law Section of the Florida Bar. Then there's this guy, Rep. Michael Grieco. Who is he? Oh yeah, a law colleague and sometimes co-counsel of Michael Weinstein, the lifetime friend of Charlie Adelson, who came to his defense publicly, and acted as a conduit between Charlie and Katie Magbanua right after Sigfredo's arrest through Sigfredo's lawyer Jim Lewis - making sure Magbanua knew that Charlie wouldn't be talking to police, so she shouldn't either.

I don't know where you get your inside running from but it if it is true it suggests that CJA was scared of police phone intercepts right from the get go. Why not simply ring her, keep away from specifics and say - "you 'll be looked after if you don't shoot your mouth off ". The Adelsons are very cunning.. minimal use of phone conversations and hardly a text message to speak of.

 

[KidonGadol]

There will be no acquittal for KM. There is a slight chance of another hung jury if they get some more "OJ Simpson jurors". And the state might not go for a 3rd trial. Remember, she was not given bail by the originial judge because he said there is (paraphrasing) a "very high probability of guilt". I think the current jury system of justice in our great country is irreparably broken.

1. I think that the major considerations regarding Magbanua were the flight risk as she is a Filipino citizen via her parents and may well hold a Phillippines passport. There are other concerns regarding witness tampering if she were free between trials. Orin Snyder made the point re flight risk in the letter he wrote to Judge Wheeler.

2. You are correct about a third trial being unlikely . Setting up for these trials is expensive and at some point there has to be a justice versus cost trade off.

 

[AlferdPacker]

2. You are correct about a third trial being unlikely . Setting up for these trials is expensive and at some point there has to be a justice versus cost trade off.

There's no reason to think a 3rd trial would be unlikely.
Henry Segura was tried for murder 3 times in Leon County before he was convicted (2010-2019).
TPD officer Vincent Crump pled guilty in 2021 rather than face a 3rd trial for assault.
Dalia Dippolito was tried 3 times of murder-for-hire before being convicted (2011-2021).
I could go on but that enough.

They'd obviously prefer to have KM's cooperation to move forward but @GordonX above is totally correct, of course they will press forward without her if needed, and the idea that KM IS essential is just a wild guess.

 

[KidonGadol]

There's no reason to think a 3rd trial would be unlikely.
Henry Segura was tried for murder 3 times in Leon County before he was convicted (2010-2019).
TPD officer Vincent Crump pled guilty in 2021 rather than face a 3rd trial for assault.
Dalia Dippolito was tried 3 times of murder-for-hire before being convicted (2011-2021).
I could go on but that enough.

They'd obviously prefer to have KM's cooperation to move forward but @GordonX above is totally correct, of course they will press forward without her if needed, and the idea that KM IS essential is just a wild guess.

Ok I take your point that the state will go to extreme lengths if poss. of conviction is there. However -
The Vincent Trump case is not a good reference because KM will never plead guilty. I'll tell you why - the Adels are almost certainly paying child support and education costs for the two children. They have her over a barrel. Unless she can do a plea deal and get out with time served, she would not consider such a deal as what if she gets an additional three years in the jug to make up the full sentence ? Will her kids end up out on the street. Her mother died a few years ago.

GordonX said that the state can continue to prosecute the Adelsons if KM is acquitted. I can't see how. Reason being that this means all Rivera's evidence used to convict SG is then suspect - all the details of being paid by KM in cash, the cell call between SG and KM in the car in the park at Betton Hills on 17th July - all gone. Also there are two known cell calls from KM to Rivera. (In general she was trying to track down SG he says). So she knew Luiz well enough to have his cell phone number. Those calls were a BIG mistake on her part.

Essentially if KM is acquitted, the jury is saying an unknown person paid SG and LR to do the murder and KM was the fall woman for the real the bag person (and that LR was lying about the money delivery**) ; someone else was the money carrier and arranger.

Where does that put the meeting between CJA and KM at la Dolce Vita ? If she was acquitted, then this meeting was therefore NOT a response to the Bump. (which it was). Why is Charlie talking about "this horrible thing " in the meeting at Dolce and talking about the police having to place people in a car at the scene by DNA ? It is clear from his body language that he thinks that the meeting is being monitored by others but I suspect he thinks the Latin Kings are in an extortion racket and have compromising evidence of the crime and that possibly KM is in on it too.


**That's a tall order as he mentioned the meeting in a deposition he did with T Kawass in the Az Fed. Facility as well as during his Proffer. I have suspicions that someone may have offered Jessica R, his "wife" money to get him to provide this deposition unless Cappleman asked him to do it under the Brady rules (ie. he could be holding exculpatory evidence re KM.) That deposition was never used by T. Kawass in court. Mentour lawyer presented it on one of his dog's breakfast videos some time back.

The deposition I refer to - taken March 22 2019 in the Jail at Tucson , AZ from L Rivera. Look on Ytube under Dan Markel Case - Work with Mentour Lawyer

 

[AlferdPacker]

deleted original msg

The post above speaks for itself

Luis Rivera was subpoeaned for a deposition, that simple, no conspiracy

 

[AlferdPacker]

**That's a tall order as he mentioned the meeting in a deposition he did with T Kawass in the Az Fed. Facility as well as during his Proffer. I have suspicions that someone may have offered Jessica R, his "wife" money to get him to provide this deposition unless Cappleman asked him to do it under the Brady rules (ie. he could be holding exculpatory evidence re KM.) That deposition was never used by T. Kawass in court.

That deposition was used repeatedly -even incessantly- by the defense in court,
<modsnip>personalizing<modsnip>

 

[rgrene]

Ok I take your point that the state will go to extreme lengths if poss. of conviction is there. However -
The Vincent Trump case is not a good reference because KM will never plead guilty. I'll tell you why - the Adels are almost certainly paying child support and education costs for the two children. They have her over a barrel. Unless she can do a plea deal and get out with time served, she would not consider such a deal as what if she gets an additional three years in the jug to make up the full sentence ? Will her kids end up out on the street. Her mother died a few years ago.

GordonX said that the state can continue to prosecute the Adelsons if KM is acquitted. I can't see how. Reason being that this means all Rivera's evidence used to convict SG is then suspect - all the details of being paid by KM in cash, the cell call between SG and KM in the car in the park at Betton Hills on 17th July - all gone. Also there are two known cell calls from KM to Rivera. (In general she was trying to track down SG he says). So she knew Luiz well enough to have his cell phone number. Those calls were a BIG mistake on her part.

Essentially if KM is acquitted, the jury is saying an unknown person paid SG and LR to do the murder and KM was the fall woman for the real the bag person (and that LR was lying about the money delivery**) ; someone else was the money carrier and arranger.

Where does that put the meeting between CJA and KM at la Dolce Vita ? If she was acquitted, then this meeting was therefore NOT a response to the Bump. (which it was). Why is Charlie talking about "this horrible thing " in the meeting at Dolce and talking about the police having to place people in a car at the scene by DNA ? It is clear from his body language that he thinks that the meeting is being monitored by others but I suspect he thinks the Latin Kings are in an extortion racket and have compromising evidence of the crime and that possibly KM is in on it too.


**That's a tall order as he mentioned the meeting in a deposition he did with T Kawass in the Az Fed. Facility as well as during his Proffer. I have suspicions that someone may have offered Jessica R, his "wife" money to get him to provide this deposition unless Cappleman asked him to do it under the Brady rules (ie. he could be holding exculpatory evidence re KM.) That deposition was never used by T. Kawass in court. Mentour lawyer presented it on one of his dog's breakfast videos some time back.

The deposition I refer to - taken March 22 2019 in the Jail at Tucson , AZ from L Rivera. Look on Ytube under Dan Markel Case - Work with Mentour Lawyer

KM will NOT be acquitted. And Charlie et al have already been convicted in the court of public opinion.

 

[KidonGadol]

That deposition was used repeatedly -even incessantly- by the defense in court, readers, please be aware that there are trolls around who are trying to confuse the issues.

I don't know about it being used repeatedly in court.

What Mentour Lawyer ( James Waczewski, Lawyer, FL) says is this about the provenance - "To clarify- when I say one of my “sources” I don’t mean anyone working the case for the defense or the State - just someone who cares about the case." That is to say the deposition copy he has was provided by an outside source and he will not say whence.
=======================================
Deposition transcripts are generally not considered part of the public record, but they become so when filed with the court. I strongly suspect that this deposition was taken in AZ , transcribed, but NOT presented to the court. Why ? because of the following - which refers to Rivera's cash payment .

41:26 my wife Jessica 41:28 what does Jessica say to you on the 41:31 phone ? 41:32 she says, "hey babe 41:35 Katie and Tuto are here" 41:37 Katie means Catherine Magbanua , Tuto 41:40 means Siegfried Garcia 41:43 and then the question is Katie and Tuto 41:45 are here 41:46 the answer is yeah 41:49 what else does she say 41:53 answer 41:54 I said don't worry about it 41:57 I'll be there right now 41:59 and that's it she said Tuto's got a bag 42:01 I said 42:02 don't touch that bag 42:04 I'll be right there (Rivera).

BTW JR did touch the bag (which was one plastic shopping bag inside another with notes tightly wadded in the inner. She told DET ISOM that she felt the package and thought it might be a block of cocaine. My suspicion is that she in fact looked and she is now trying to distance herself from the killing and is lying to ISOM. JR is listed as a potential witness in the case. She has prior criminal convictions.

If this AZ deposition was filed with the court and therefore became a public record then why would ADA Cappleman not call Jessica Rodrigues, the alleged wife of Rivera, to the stand to corroborate all this ? There was no part of the plea deal of Rivera that kept JR from testifying.

Even more interesting in the same deposition , Rivera makes a comment about a second trip to Tallahassee by S. Garcia and another person with possible intent to murder D. Markel, before the final homicide trip. L. Rivera states that the short nosed S+W he bought as a murder weapon did not leave is possession on that trip so if this is true - it makes SG look even more guilty. I would have thought ADA Cappleman would have been all over that. (?) IF the deposition was lodged in evidence.


I'd also note that I can see that you , Mr Packer, seem to have joined WS only very recently and JUST to comment on this Markel case it appears (I can only go on what the database tells me) , and within a few days you start abusing people as Trolls. It seems an interesting line of argument and operation.

as far as your mistrial stats go -
H. Segura - tried and jury could not agree (mistrial at first trial)
Second trial found guilty regardless of all the red herrings thrown around by that head case Castro. Sentenced to life in prison (somewhat of a surprise, 3 children and one adult murdered in this case - you'd expect a death penalty). I can't find any evidence of a sequence of two mistrials in the case.

Dalia Dippolito 1. Tried and convicted. (no jury indecision) . On appeal the appeal judge found that jury selection was improper and called for a retrial.
2nd prosecution - Jury mistrial
3rd prosecution - Convicted , expected date of release about 2032. (Solicitation to murder).

so in neither case were there two jury fails to convicts in succession. My point is that if the State get two successive fails to convict, It is unlikely that the State will attempt to try the defendant on the same charge for a third time. The State might try for a conviction on a lesser charge.

..... KG.

 

[AlferdPacker]

Depositions are public and do not require "sources."

There are locals that read this site who actually care about the case, have some knowledge of the facts, and actually watched the trial carefully.

I caution them, in general, that high-volume verbose posting does not equal a command of the facts, the criminal justice system, or what is going to happen in the future.

 

[Deleted member 302228]

I don't know about it being used repeatedly in court.

It was mentioned-
1) in motions before the judge
2) in the opening statement by the defense
3) in the cross-examination of Rivera by Kawass, probably 100 times
4) in the cross-examination of multiple law enforcement witnesses by Kawass and Decoste
5) in the closing statement by DeCoste
6) in statements to the media by Kawass and Decoste

Other than that, it never got mentioned at all.

 

[bbkitty]

Three members of the Florida House voted against this bill yesterday. Two were family lawyers, so that makes sense based on the formal position of the Family Law Section of the Florida Bar. Then there's this guy, Rep. Michael Grieco. Who is he? Oh yeah, a law colleague and sometimes co-counsel of Michael Weinstein, the lifetime friend of Charlie Adelson, who came to his defense publicly, and acted as a conduit between Charlie and Katie Magbanua right after Sigfredo's arrest through Sigfredo's lawyer Jim Lewis - making sure Magbanua knew that Charlie wouldn't be talking to police, so she shouldn't either.

Grieco also lived in the same building as WA. What a coincidence!

 

[ghibercz]

Grieco also lived in the same building as WA. What a coincidence!

Which building? Or rather, how long ago?

 

[bbkitty]

Which building? Or rather, how long ago?

The Courts at South Beach. Until recently.

 

[KidonGadol]

Depositions are public and do not require "sources."

There are locals that read this site who actually care about the case, have some knowledge of the facts, and actually watched the trial carefully.

I caution them, in general, that high-volume verbose posting does not equal a command of the facts, the criminal justice system, or what is going to happen in the future.

The statement is not strictly true. An Attny can take a deposition and then not register it into evidence (perhaps not the correct. Tech term) with the court because it implicates the client too much. The deposition is then unusable in court but it physically is still a deposition. - it is just sitting in a legal safe somewhere. I've established that it does not fit in this category as per below -

Magbanua's attorney cross examines Luis Rivera (Ytube title)
Yes - I have found evidence that the AZ deposition was entered into evidence.
41:05 refers to a separate deposition with Mr Zangeneh.
1:03:00 quotes the pick up of the money "hey babe - Katie and Tuto are here"
This is from the Mentour lawyer quoted deposition (AZ , 2019). So it is clear that the deposition taken in AZ was registered with the court.
Kawass interrogates Rivera forcefully about the number of guns that were taken
north on the murder run. Rivera says only one - the short nosed one - that's
the black S&W 38. However he told the police in the proffer that SG took his
personal Taurus revolver on the trip too. They were supposedly under the car seat. This is a significant discrepancy. Given that he has fingered SG for the murder, I don't understand why he would try to minimise the number of weapons taken. I'm not sure this was picked up on by the defense.||

in YT video FSU Law Professor Murder Trial Day 4 Witnesses: Luis Rivera - Co-Defendant (Law and crime video)
3:10 "But in March of 2019 in our deposition" This is the date of the
deposition taken in AZ. There is zero chance there were two Kawass depositions
in that month so that is the one and the same.
So yes, the AZ May 2019 deposition was registered with the court. So Why did Cappleman not pull Rodriguez into court as a witness to get her to back up the Luiz R story of the money delivery via KM ?
I can't explain that, except to say that JRodriguez was somewhat friendly with KM and Cappleman might have thought she would lie for her. J R has some sort of criminal record (she mentioned it in an interview with Det ISOM). If it was for dishonesty, I am sure Kawass would have brought that up.
==================================================

 

[KidonGadol]

Charles Adelson and series of complex property transactions to at first glace, Hide Assets.


What is going on with all these mortgage transactions between Adelsons senr and their son viz. Charles J Adelson ?
Instrument 116664811 of approx 13 August 2020 (Database date).
The amount mentioned in the database is $650K. The Broward county database is very unclear as to whether this is the value of the payment to CJA - in
other words the meaning of the from an to columns is ambiguous.
The instrument document appears to be just a guarantee to sell with a
contract value of ten dollars.
10 Sept 2020 (document Deed date 20 July (not September) of 2020)
Instrument Nbr 116721960. Adelsons Snr take out a mortgate of $436 000 to CJ Adelson who is selling them a property Lots 8 and 9, Block 12 Amended Plat (??) of Riverside Park Addition. This is a private mortgage with monthly
payments of simple interest over the period of thirty years. Deed and
subsequent page have been provided.


Then in February of 2022 we have Number: 117943781 registered with Broward
County
Number Of Pages:2
Doc Type:RST - Release/Revoke/Satisfy or Terminate
From:ADELSON,CHARLES J
CHARLES J ADELSON DECLARATION OF TRUST
To:ADELSON,HARVEY J
ADELSON,DONNA SUE HARVEY J ADELSON FAMILY TRUST
Within this document are the words "full payment of said
note and satisfaction of mortgage deed ". I am not sure if this
means that the mortgage has been paid out with a cash payment or this means
something else.
The header on page 1 of the document is "Satisfaction of Mortgage."
The document relates to: Blocks 8 and 9 block 12 etc as per the previous
documents.
I found this statement on the internet:
"
A satisfaction of mortgage for commercial real property in Florida that has
been paid in full or otherwise satisfied. Lenders in Florida customarily use
a satisfaction of mortgage, which is recorded in the county where the
mortgaged real property is located. "

So it seems that a mortgage was set up in 2020 and then allegedly the
residual value was paid out (or Far more likely, simply forgiven by CJA) in
February of 2022.
The obvious reason to do this is to transfer property from CJ Adelson to the
Adelson family trust in a way to make it look as if it can't be a sham
transaction in the intervening period while the mortgage was running.
And the reason why this is being done ? Possibly to remove real assets from CJA's control and into the Adelson Family Trust so that if K. Magbanua is
convicted, the Markel family cannot win a civil cash penalty against CJ Adelson.
As he may have no substantial assets in his name. (or at a minimum, it rescues
this asset from any civil judgement).

If the value of the property was Not transferred in money to CJA (as mortgage payments)) then he does not have the issue of trying to hide that money.


Source of information is -
Broward County Official Records

 

[GordonX]

Monday, May 16, 2022.