FL - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 40 counts to classified documents and obstruction of justice, June 2023, Trial May 2024

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Smelly Squirrel said:
This is a good article comparing Trump's case to that of Biden, Pence and Clinton and another recent one. DOJ has been much easier on Trump than they could have. They let him off of about 200 more counts.

nymag.com

The DOJ Tried to Give Trump a Pass. He Wouldn’t Take It.

The government gave the ex-president a chance to get away with willfully retaining classified documents. He refused to take it.
nymag.com nymag.com

Compare this to the conduct for which the DOJ did not charge Trump: Upon leaving office, the ex-president brought more than 300 highly classified documents to his private residences, including top-secret materials detailing atomic secrets and national security vulnerabilities; he retained these documents for about a year despite government requests for him to return them. His own public statements indicate that his retention of those documents was willful, and he repeatedly expressed a sense of entitlement to their possession, saying that, as president, he had the power to declassify those materials “even by thinking about it.”

Nevertheless, as late as January 2022, the Justice Department was still giving Trump the opportunity to avoid charges by returning the documents he had taken. The indictment released last week makes this point clear.

In January of last year, Trump returned 197 classified documents to the federal government. Despite his willfully retaining those documents for months, the federal indictment released last week does not charge Trump in connection with any of them — which is to say, the DOJ gave Trump a pass on 197 potential counts of willful retention of national defense information. Instead, it charged him with only 31 counts, each corresponding with a highly classified document that Trump knowingly withheld from the government in January 2022 and the FBI later obtained.
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Trump was given more opportunities to do the right thing- turn over all the documents- than any other person would have gotten- the problem is that Trump's narrative and message, along with his republican sycophantic tribe is the only one that is out there. The Democrats are making a huge mistake by not coming out and clearly stating the true facts- they are allowing Trump's message to be the prevailing one and it is a dangerous narrative- it is enraging his followers who believe everything he says- it whips them into a frenzy that could wind up with violent activity. Biden has clearly stated he has no intention of coming out with the true facts: he believes the truth will out. I am not so sure.
 
www.theguardian.com

‘Pretty disrespectful’: rightwing radio host scolds Pence for not saying he’d pardon Trump

Pence avoided answering whether, if he were president, he would pardon Trump from indictment over handling of classified records
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

On the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show on Wednesday, Pence was asked: “Would you pardon [Trump] from those federal charges?”

Pence said: “Well, first off, these are serious charges. And as I said, I can’t defend what’s been alleged, but the president does deserve to make his defense …. “Look, I have been a former governor [of Indiana]. I’ve actually granted pardons to people. And I take the pardon authority very seriously. It’s an enormously important power, of someone in an executive position. And I just think it’s premature to have any conversation about that right now, guys.”

Travis said Trump was being “prosecuted to a large extent for political-based reason, something that has never happened in the 240-plus year history of the United States”.

Admitting the allegations against Trump were “serious”, the host said that if Pence were president, he would be “the executive … the ultimate decider. “With all due respect … I think you’re dodging the question and frankly, not stepping up on the on the front of leadership which in the past you’ve been willing to do.”

Pence said: “Number one, I don’t think you know what the president’s defence is, do you? And what are the facts? I mean, look, we either believe in our judicial process in this country, or we don’t. We either stand by the rule of law, or we don’t. What I would tell you is I think as someone who is–”

Travis cut him off: “What I’m hearing is Donald Trump being put in prison, sir. And that, to me, you were his vice-president, feels pretty disrespectful.”

Pence said: “I don’t talk about hypotheticals. Look, we don’t know what the president’s defense is. I think he’s entitled to make his defense, entitled to have his day in court. And … let’s take it one step at a time. I would just tell you that I–”

Travis cut in again: “I know that these are political charges. This is not this is not a difficult decision.”

His co-host, Buck Sexton, said: “I think we’ve gotten what we’re gonna get here in terms of the answer to this one.”

Pence said: “I think any conclusion by anyone running for the presidency of the United States that would pre-judge the facts … is premature. Let’s let the process play out. Let’s follow the facts. And I promise you as president I’ll do just that.”
 
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10ofRods said:
The files were first stored in the ballroom at Mar-A-Lago. I believe the indictment alleges that up to 10,000 people passed through that room during the time the documents were there. Many big public events.

IMO.
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How tacky. Having boxed piled up in a venue people are paying exorbitant rates to utilize. Even if the curtains were discretely o_Odrawn (there's an oxymoron), it smacks of sheer disregard for security. Anyone could be behind those curtains while an event was occurring. My mind can't really comprehend the complete lack of care that went on for months and months at a time. The FBI and the Secret Service need to go through those guests again, with a fine tooth comb.
 
ilovewings said:
Trump was given more opportunities to do the right thing- turn over all the documents- than any other person would have gotten- the problem is that Trump's narrative and message, along with his republican sycophantic tribe is the only one that is out there. The Democrats are making a huge mistake by not coming out and clearly stating the true facts- they are allowing Trump's message to be the prevailing one and it is a dangerous narrative- it is enraging his followers who believe everything he says- it whips them into a frenzy that could wind up with violent activity. Biden has clearly stated he has no intention of coming out with the true facts: he believes the truth will out. I am not so sure.
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If Biden makes any references to the case, it will become additional political fodder for Trump. Jack Smith and Merrick Garland have spoken about the case as representatives of the Department of Justice. Biden wants the case against DJT to play out in the legal realm where it belongs. JMO
 
From what I've read, Walt Nauta is/was married in Agat, Guam in January 2012. I've found no evidence that he is still married although I have been able to track his (ex)? spouse living in Washington DC, Alexandria VA and currently in Fl. I've seen conflicting reports regarding two children.

I'm not listing her name since we can't sleuth people not part of the investigation.

But if he does have a family I think how he responds to being indicted along with Trump could play a huge part on whether he flips or not. If he doesn't have a family (other than his parents who are still living) then I think it's possible he will flip but if he has a family and he was supporting them while in Trump's employ it's quite possible he may arrange for some form of payout to his family (not him) if he is convicted and imprisoned. I wish him good luck as to that.

Just going by hypotheticals, if both Trump and Nauta are convicted of the charges what would be the odds if Trump was pardoned, that Nauta a civilian following orders, would be pardoned, too? I know the old saw "I was just following orders" wasn't worth the breath it took to speak those words, for all those German co-conspirators indicted for atrocities at the Nuremburg trials. And before someone says this is apples and oranges remember that the march to a fascist, authoritarian German Reich started in the early 1920s not on September 1, 1939.

Under all the weight of this indictment is not only the intent of Trump stealing and hiding top secret documents but what is at stake for American democracy moving forward.
 
branmuffin said:
...

Just going by hypotheticals, if both Trump and Nauta are convicted of the charges what would be the odds if Trump was pardoned, that Nauta a civilian following orders, would be pardoned, too? I know the old saw "I was just following orders" wasn't worth the breath it took to speak those words, for all those German co-conspirators indicted for atrocities at the Nuremburg trials. ...
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RS and BBM,

Apparently Nauata retired after the documents were moved, so definitely not simply a civian following orders.

nypost.com

Who is Walt Nauta, Trump’s military veteran co-defendant?

Former President Donald Trump’s co-defendant in a federal indictment was an active-duty Navy sailor when prosecutors say he moved highly classified national security documents to Mar-a-Lago.
nypost.com nypost.com

He was well aware the docs were classified, improperly stored, and he had a DUTY to Report such a breach; instead, he conspired with Trump to 'relocate' them to ensure they were not discovered by Trump's lawyer and handed back to the feds by the lawyer.

Even had he been retired at the time, it is absolutely frightening to me that anyone who has sworn an oath to protect the Constitution, would ever do something like this; it is exactly how dictatorships come to be when the safeguards that are put into place to protect democracy are ignored by those who swear the Oath to abet, prop up and satiate the wishes of the wanna-be dictator.

Nurmeburg recognized that fact - that Dictatorships do not happen in a vacuum - that those who conspire with others to commit criminal (in WW2 atrocious and inhuman acts) acts that do/or to circumvent the laws of the people are also held rightfully responsible for their actions in the event (coups etc). Indeed, those that swear that oath are expected to, and required to, actually do the right thing instead of 'just follow orders'. That's why it is critical that those of us who do swear the oath remain impartial - our jobs are to support our democraticly elected governments regardless of who is sitting at the head table at that point in time. Democracy depends upon it.

I wonder can he still be subjected to courts-martial too now that he's retired. I certainly won't be sad to see him serve some time for this.
 
Todd Blanche, a white-collar attorney defending Donald Trump in two criminal cases, is facing a legal malpractice lawsuit by former clients who claim Blanche and his former law firm mishandled their defense in a regulatory investigation https://reut.rs/42J16Du


The lawsuit, which is unrelated to Blanche's work for Trump, was filed this week in New York state court by investment advisers Adam and Daniel Kaplan. They said Blanche and his former firm Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft "sabotaged" their efforts to fend off a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission probe, forged a document and withheld their legal file after Cadwalader stopped representing the pair.

"This lawsuit has no legitimate legal or factual basis," Blanche told Reuters, declining to elaborate.
 
sds71 said:
Todd Blanche, a white-collar attorney defending Donald Trump in two criminal cases, is facing a legal malpractice lawsuit by former clients who claim Blanche and his former law firm mishandled their defense in a regulatory investigation https://reut.rs/42J16Du


The lawsuit, which is unrelated to Blanche's work for Trump, was filed this week in New York state court by investment advisers Adam and Daniel Kaplan. They said Blanche and his former firm Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft "sabotaged" their efforts to fend off a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission probe, forged a document and withheld their legal file after Cadwalader stopped representing the pair.

"This lawsuit has no legitimate legal or factual basis," Blanche told Reuters, declining to elaborate.
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Sounds like Trump is now scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to lawyers.

JMO
 
ilovewings said:
Trump was given more opportunities to do the right thing- turn over all the documents- than any other person would have gotten- the problem is that Trump's narrative and message, along with his republican sycophantic tribe is the only one that is out there. The Democrats are making a huge mistake by not coming out and clearly stating the true facts- they are allowing Trump's message to be the prevailing one and it is a dangerous narrative- it is enraging his followers who believe everything he says- it whips them into a frenzy that could wind up with violent activity. Biden has clearly stated he has no intention of coming out with the true facts: he believes the truth will out. I am not so sure.
Click to expand...
The problem is that people are more likely to accept a fact from a source they trust.

The people who are only hearing what Trump is saying are not going to believe anything the Biden government say.

They're being told by people who they trust that they can't trust the FBI or any part of the judiciary that makes a decision they feel is unfair to Trump.

The way I see things is that I have to consider them turned around. So let's say it's an allegation about Biden that's made by Trump. I need to look for sources I trust to determine in my mind if I believe the allegation or not. For those people with a propensity to trust Trump, what information are they getting from their other trusted sources? And it's okay that they don't want to trust the Biden side in a Trump v Biden verbal sparring. We shouldn't automatically believe someone, even if it's the POTUS or UK PM or anyone else at that level, not even if we voted for them.

Something I have noticed over the past five to ten years is 'conservative' groups, websites, not just middle conservatives, but a different brand of it that Trump appeals to, I don't want to use insulting words, they are just people trying to make sense of the world around them. And these ones I am referring to have created a situation where 'fact checking' sources are not trusted. They are considered to be extremely biased against conservatives and a very strong message that they can't be trusted.

When 90% of a person's information is coming from sources saying the same things Trump says, and these are the only sources a person trusts, they aren't going to listen to anything said by the Biden administration or from CNN or MSNBC, and there's a lot of stuff on those places that I would also question as I also expect to often encounter a biased style of reporting and opinion pieces from them. In the UK I go to places like the BBC or Sky news, and I'm still sifting it through for 'can this be believed/are there other sources that back it up'? The type of people who are taking everything Trump says as 99% sure to be accurate don't trust those places or NPR either. This is the paradigm we are living in today. And now look at all the new things like Telegram that have popped up to take advantage of 'fact checking' on Facebook that's turned away all those people who don't believe the fact checkers.
 
MyBelle said:
Sounds like Trump is now scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to lawyers.

JMO
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Throughout his presidency his people would float names of possible upcoming appointees. Frequently they were cable talking heads that DJT thought were attractive. My head spins with all the inappropriate ppl he hired, starting with his son in law & daughter. Imo At one point his son in law had a portfolio of DJT appointed duties "overseeing the US-Mexico border wall, ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, solving the opioid crisis, managing the nation’s medical stockpile amid the coronavirus crisis, overhauling the Republican Party platform, and on and on."
www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org

The most powerful person in the White House not named Donald Trump

www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Two of his lawyer buddies already went to prison, and his accountant served 5 months in jail with 5 years probation, 2$ M dollar fine after a plea deal for perks he received from Trump org. "Over three days on the stand in November, the executive detailed some of the accounting sleights of hand that allowed the Trump Org. to avoid taxes by paying its employees lower salaries and instead compensating them with luxury cars, free lodging and tuition for family members." Ex-Trump Org. CFO Allen Weisselberg sentenced to 5 months in jail for tax fraud.

He is totally inept, stupid, disgusting, greasy and a creep imo, and hires ppl just like him. For the life of me I don't understand why ppl are so money grubbing that they will do anything to rub shoulders with him. Even risking prison time, disbarment and bringing shame to their families.

Nauta has a chance to do the right thing, in the end.

Imo
 
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MyBelle said:
Sounds like Trump is now scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to lawyers.

JMO
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He sort of has no choice. It's going to be really hard when some of his lawyers have themselves been indicted and some have indicated that they weren't paid.

He needs a big retainer for this, in addition. He may think he can negotiate freebies for this, but it's a federal case and the lawyers have to be federally qualified (at least one of them does). ICBW, so someone correct me if that's the case.

And Nauta should make a deal ASAP and testify at Trump's trial, obviously.

IMO.
 
10ofRods said:
He sort of has no choice. It's going to be really hard when some of his lawyers have themselves been indicted and some have indicated that they weren't paid.

He needs a big retainer for this, in addition. He may think he can negotiate freebies for this, but it's a federal case and the lawyers have to be federally qualified (at least one of them does). ICBW, so someone correct me if that's the case.

And Nauta should make a deal ASAP and testify at Trump's trial, obviously.

IMO.
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Nauta would be a fool not to make a deal and flip Trump. I'd like to think prosecutors and Nauta would keep the deal confidential right up until trial. moo
 
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