FL - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 40 counts to classified documents and obstruction of justice, June 2023, Trial May 2024

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I just can’t imagine packing to move in such a haphazard manner. He even said some of the boxes had clothing mixed in with documents! Why?! I’ve moved a number of times in the past few years. I labeled every box with its contents and what room it should go to. If it was for the kitchen it didn’t have bathroom stuff in it or documents. I realize Trump was convinced he wouldn’t have to move, and his staff was no doubt afraid to mention packing to him. But he had about two weeks after January 6 to get it done. It was chaotic, but not impossible. And it’s not like he had to do it all by himself.

JMO

I actually only know one person who is as orderly as you are. Trump was only in the White House 4 years, and clearly thought he was going to get to stay another four years.

At any rate, even professional movers have tossed our stuff haphazardly into boxes. We moved a lot from 1973-1990 and not once did I manage to get my boxes labeled.

He obviously had to move the secret files more or less by himself. And he probably thought having clothing mixed in meant that the boxes contained "personal things," which they did, if there were clothes inside. Maybe they used clothing at the top of each box to obscure the contents. One thing is clear, he was fairly clear about what he wanted to take (DoD and CIA stuff, apparently).

The entire indictment was read out loud on a podcast, makes great late night listening - it's like a novel.

IMO.

 
I am relieved about this. I've been thinking myself stupidly naive that it was really acceptable and normal to just have this level of secret files in cardboard boxes around people's houses, no safes, padlocked briefcases or anything, where a burglar could just find anything lying around.

The files were first stored in the ballroom at Mar-A-Lago. I believe the indictment alleges that up to 10,000 people passed through that room during the time the documents were there. Many big public events.

IMO.
 
I actually only know one person who is as orderly as you are. Trump was only in the White House 4 years, and clearly thought he was going to get to stay another four years.

At any rate, even professional movers have tossed our stuff haphazardly into boxes. We moved a lot from 1973-1990 and not once did I manage to get my boxes labeled.

He obviously had to move the secret files more or less by himself. And he probably thought having clothing mixed in meant that the boxes contained "personal things," which they did, if there were clothes inside. Maybe they used clothing at the top of each box to obscure the contents. One thing is clear, he was fairly clear about what he wanted to take (DoD and CIA stuff, apparently).

The entire indictment was read out loud on a podcast, makes great late night listening - it's like a novel.

IMO.

Thanks so much for the podcast tip. I see it right there on my "podcast addict".
 

The sheriff’s office in Fulton county, Georgia, announced that it had sent officials to Miami and New York to gather intelligence on security operations ahead of another possible indictment of Trump, this time over allegations that he pressured Georgia election officials to overturn his narrow loss in the state’s 2020 election.

Trump was caught on tape telling Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, “I just want to find 11,780 votes,” to surpass Joe Biden’s total. The district attorney in Fulton county, Fani Willis, has suggested that any charges would come in August.
I wish they'd hurry up. First primary debate is 23 Aug.
 
One of Donald Trump’s new attorneys proposed an idea in the fall of 2022: The former president’s team could try to arrange a settlement with the Justice Department.

The attorney, Christopher Kise, wanted to quietly approach Justice to see if he could negotiate a settlement that would preclude charges, hoping Attorney General Merrick Garland and the department would want an exit ramp to avoid prosecuting a former president.

But Trump was not interested after listening to other lawyers who urged a more pugilistic approach, so Kise never approached prosecutors, three people briefed on the matter said. A special counsel was appointed months later…

Trump time and again rejected the advice from lawyers and advisers who urged him to cooperate and instead took the advice of Tom Fitton, the head of the conservative group Judicial Watch, and a range of others who told him he could legally keep the documents and should fight the Justice Department, advisers said.

Trump would often cite Fitton to others, and Fitton told some of Trump’s lawyers that Trump could keep the documents, even as they disagreed, the advisers said.

For his part, Fitton said Trump’s lawyers “should have been more aggressive in fighting the subpoenas and fighting for Trump.”
 
One of Donald Trump’s new attorneys proposed an idea in the fall of 2022: The former president’s team could try to arrange a settlement with the Justice Department.

The attorney, Christopher Kise, wanted to quietly approach Justice to see if he could negotiate a settlement that would preclude charges, hoping Attorney General Merrick Garland and the department would want an exit ramp to avoid prosecuting a former president.

But Trump was not interested after listening to other lawyers who urged a more pugilistic approach, so Kise never approached prosecutors, three people briefed on the matter said. A special counsel was appointed months later…

Trump time and again rejected the advice from lawyers and advisers who urged him to cooperate and instead took the advice of Tom Fitton, the head of the conservative group Judicial Watch, and a range of others who told him he could legally keep the documents and should fight the Justice Department, advisers said.

Trump would often cite Fitton to others, and Fitton told some of Trump’s lawyers that Trump could keep the documents, even as they disagreed, the advisers said.

For his part, Fitton said Trump’s lawyers “should have been more aggressive in fighting the subpoenas and fighting for Trump.”
And these are the same papers that Trump has said were planted by the FBI?

How is it acceptable for a Presidential candidate - let alone a former President - to lie like this? Him and some of his 'cronies' trying to take down their own FBI, justice department, and even the Constitution, to save Trump's backside from the consequences of his own misdeeds.

Then again, it's just part of a pattern. How different is it from the lies and false allegations Trump made about the election, trying to get his VP to break the law and turn the country upside down because he, Trump, was too much of a wimp to admit that he lost.
 

So sorry, that "Truth Social" post turned out to be fake so I deleted it

But I really think he would blame anyone else to get himself off the hook.
Isn't that funny. That a fake post is so absurd that it seems logical, expected and fitting for that man.

Trump is a malignant narcissist. Here's something I read in the comments on a Youtube video about the diabolical Elizabeth Holmes: Narcissists wet the bed and blame the blanket.
 
One of Donald Trump’s new attorneys proposed an idea in the fall of 2022: The former president’s team could try to arrange a settlement with the Justice Department.

The attorney, Christopher Kise, wanted to quietly approach Justice to see if he could negotiate a settlement that would preclude charges, hoping Attorney General Merrick Garland and the department would want an exit ramp to avoid prosecuting a former president.

But Trump was not interested after listening to other lawyers who urged a more pugilistic approach, so Kise never approached prosecutors, three people briefed on the matter said. A special counsel was appointed months later…

Trump time and again rejected the advice from lawyers and advisers who urged him to cooperate and instead took the advice of Tom Fitton, the head of the conservative group Judicial Watch, and a range of others who told him he could legally keep the documents and should fight the Justice Department, advisers said.

Trump would often cite Fitton to others, and Fitton told some of Trump’s lawyers that Trump could keep the documents, even as they disagreed, the advisers said.

For his part, Fitton said Trump’s lawyers “should have been more aggressive in fighting the subpoenas and fighting for Trump.”
Keep in mind, wing-nut Fitton isn't an attorney.

JMO
 
Yes, the same documents he at first claimed were planted by the FBI, he now claims were his personal property all along. I wonder how his supporters account for that.
We're on a crime/sleuthing forum. This is one of the things *we* look for when we listen to things people say and we go through a few of their interviews with media. Are they consistent in who they say did what, and in what they say they themselves did or didn't do?

Trump's claims:
It was a hoax
It was a frame up by the FBI
It was a bunch of unrelated bogeymen (commies, marxists, environmentalists)
And then he says he was within his rights to have those papers.
Biden did worse
Clinton did worse
They're coming after you, not me.


Imagine if it was your ten year old kid giving you these stories.
 
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This is a good article comparing Trump's case to that of Biden, Pence and Clinton and another recent one. DOJ has been much easier on Trump than they could have. They let him off of about 200 more counts.


Compare this to the conduct for which the DOJ did not charge Trump: Upon leaving office, the ex-president brought more than 300 highly classified documents to his private residences, including top-secret materials detailing atomic secrets and national security vulnerabilities; he retained these documents for about a year despite government requests for him to return them. His own public statements indicate that his retention of those documents was willful, and he repeatedly expressed a sense of entitlement to their possession, saying that, as president, he had the power to declassify those materials “even by thinking about it.”

Nevertheless, as late as January 2022, the Justice Department was still giving Trump the opportunity to avoid charges by returning the documents he had taken. The indictment released last week makes this point clear.

In January of last year, Trump returned 197 classified documents to the federal government. Despite his willfully retaining those documents for months, the federal indictment released last week does not charge Trump in connection with any of them — which is to say, the DOJ gave Trump a pass on 197 potential counts of willful retention of national defense information. Instead, it charged him with only 31 counts, each corresponding with a highly classified document that Trump knowingly withheld from the government in January 2022 and the FBI later obtained.
 

Trump’s 2024 Republican rivals react to indictment: ‘Very serious allegations’​

Some candidates, including Mike Pence, Nikki Haley and Tim Scott, shift tone from defending ex-president to criticism

When news broke on Thursday that Donald Trump would be indicted for his alleged mishandling of classified documents, most of his Republican presidential primary opponents rushed to his defense, blaming the charges on the “weaponization of federal law enforcement”, as the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, said.

But several Republican candidates have shifted their tone since the indictment was unsealed on Friday, revealing the full extent of the serious charges Trump faces.

[...]

While Pence had previously attacked the department of justice over the indictment, he told the Wall Street Journal editorial board on Tuesday that he considered his former boss’s alleged actions to be indefensible.

“Having read the indictment,” Pence said, “these are very serious allegations. And I can’t defend what is alleged. But the president is entitled to his day in court, he’s entitled to bring a defense, and I want to reserve judgment until he has the opportunity to respond.”

Pence, whose son and son-in-law served in the US military, specifically chastised Trump over endangering service members.

“Even the inadvertent release of that kind of information could compromise our national security and the safety of our armed forces,” Pence said. “And, frankly, having two members of our immediate family serving in the armed forces of the United States, I will never diminish the importance of protecting our nation’s secrets.”

That line was echoed by former South Carolina governor and presidential candidate Nikki Haley. Although Haley initially responded to news of the indictment by condemning “prosecutorial overreach, double standards and vendetta politics”, she begrudgingly acknowledged on Monday that Trump’s alleged behavior represented a grave threat to Americans’ safety.

“If this indictment is true, if what it says is actually the case, President Trump was incredibly reckless with our national security,” Haley told Fox News. “I’m a military spouse. My husband’s about to deploy this weekend. This puts all of our military men and women in danger.”

The South Carolina senator Tim Scott softened his own impassioned defense of Trump after the indictment was made public. While Scott lamented “a justice system where the scales are weighted” on Thursday, he told reporters on Monday that Smith’s indictment represented a “serious case with serious allegations”.

But those three candidates did not go as far as the former New Jersey governor Chris Christie, who has been far more outspoken in his criticism of Trump. At a CNN town hall on Monday, Christie credited Smith’s team with crafting “a very tight, very detailed, evidence-laden indictment”.

“Whether you like Donald Trump or you don’t like Donald Trump, this conduct is inexcusable, in my opinion, for somebody who wants to be president of the United States,” Christie said.

Christie, who was once a Trump loyalist before turning against the former president, attributed the retention of the classified documents to “vanity run amok”.

“He’s saying I’m more important than the country,” Christie said. “And he is now going to put this country through this when we didn’t have to go through it.”

[...]


 
One of Donald Trump’s new attorneys proposed an idea in the fall of 2022: The former president’s team could try to arrange a settlement with the Justice Department.

The attorney, Christopher Kise, wanted to quietly approach Justice to see if he could negotiate a settlement that would preclude charges, hoping Attorney General Merrick Garland and the department would want an exit ramp to avoid prosecuting a former president.

But Trump was not interested after listening to other lawyers who urged a more pugilistic approach, so Kise never approached prosecutors, three people briefed on the matter said. A special counsel was appointed months later…

Trump time and again rejected the advice from lawyers and advisers who urged him to cooperate and instead took the advice of Tom Fitton, the head of the conservative group Judicial Watch, and a range of others who told him he could legally keep the documents and should fight the Justice Department, advisers said.

Trump would often cite Fitton to others, and Fitton told some of Trump’s lawyers that Trump could keep the documents, even as they disagreed, the advisers said.

For his part, Fitton said Trump’s lawyers “should have been more aggressive in fighting the subpoenas and fighting for Trump.”


Tom Fitton is still very close to the indictment situation.

This Washington Post article says that at the pre-court dinner (the night before the indictment hearing), seated at the large table with DT and Nauta were ...... "Trump’s political advisers, his lawyer Christopher Kise, Nauta’s lawyer, Stanley Woodward, and right-wing media figure Tom Fitton".

Will Walt Nauta flip? Trump keeps valet close as question hovers over the case
 
Keep in mind, wing-nut Fitton isn't an attorney.

JMO

I am not sure that Tom Fitton should be advising or sitting at a pre-court dinner table with DT.
Somehow it doesn't seem right that Fitton is employed by a govt dept overseeing the judiciary, and he is chatting it up with DT before his criminal hearing.

- Not an attorney
- Has an English degree from George Washington University
- Was appointed by DT to the D.C. Commission on Judicial Disabilities and Tenure on November 10, 2020 ... and his term ends on July 29, 2025.


The Commission's role is "to maintain public confidence in an independent, impartial, fair, and qualified judiciary, and to enforce the high standards of conduct judges must adhere to both on and off the bench".

 
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Trump was caught on tape telling Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, “I just want to find 11,780 votes,” to surpass Joe Biden’s total. The district attorney in Fulton county, Fani Willis, has suggested that any charges would come in August.

Per my notes:

5/18/23 Update: The Georgia prosecutor leading an investigation into Trump & his allies has taken the unusual step of announcing remote work days for most of her staff during July 31st thru August 18, asking judges in a downtown Atlanta courthouse not to schedule trials for part of that time as she prepares to bring charges in the inquiry. The moves suggest that Fani T. Willis, the Fulton County district attorney, is expecting a grand jury to unseal indictments during that time period. Ms. Willis outlined the remote work plan & made the request to judges in a letter sent on Thursday to 21 Fulton County officials, including the Chief County Judge Ural Glanville & the sheriff, Pat Labat. "I respectfully request that judges not schedule trials & in person hearings during the weeks beginning Monday, August 7 & Monday, August 14," it said.
 
I am relieved about this. I've been thinking myself stupidly naive that it was really acceptable and normal to just have this level of secret files in cardboard boxes around people's houses, no safes, padlocked briefcases or anything, where a burglar could just find anything lying around.
It's far from normal for sure. It's actually criminal.

Here's a link to the US specs (open source as well). There is a standard amongst the Allied nations for these kinds of things.

 
Per my notes:

5/18/23 Update: The Georgia prosecutor leading an investigation into Trump & his allies has taken the unusual step of announcing remote work days for most of her staff during July 31st thru August 18, asking judges in a downtown Atlanta courthouse not to schedule trials for part of that time as she prepares to bring charges in the inquiry. The moves suggest that Fani T. Willis, the Fulton County district attorney, is expecting a grand jury to unseal indictments during that time period. Ms. Willis outlined the remote work plan & made the request to judges in a letter sent on Thursday to 21 Fulton County officials, including the Chief County Judge Ural Glanville & the sheriff, Pat Labat. "I respectfully request that judges not schedule trials & in person hearings during the weeks beginning Monday, August 7 & Monday, August 14," it said.
@Niner, thank you for all the 'notes' that you keep and bring forth. I don't know where you find the sheer volume of time that it takes.

You are amazing.
 
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