GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #17

[Cedars]

The testimony of one conspirator against another conspirator is not needed to prove the crime. Other evidence of an agreement/conspiracy can be enough. It's just a question of how strong the evidence is. JMO.

Of course.

 

[clearskies1]

DBM

 

[justice1960]

The testimony of one conspirator against another conspirator is not needed to prove the crime. Other evidence of an agreement/conspiracy can be enough. It's just a question of how strong the evidence is. JMO.

You heard Georgia. "Stay tuned"
IMHO. Don't be surprised if we see a trifecta...WA/DA/HA.

 

[ndrew]

It’s possible the police would used the same tape for a downed tree, especially if there was an issue with electrical wires. Tape is tape, maybe they don’t have two kinds. (That’s if the police report for a downed tree; it could be some other emergency service.) I wouldn’t make too much of this. Who reads caution tape that closely?

That she allegedly saw several houses around Dan’s blocked off with ANY kind of tape, for ANY reason, and didn’t stop or ask why is the big picture. You’d see a downed tree if you were close enough to see the tape.

Thank you amicuscurie. You explained it much better than me. I think I got hung up on reading somewhere that it was "crime scene" tape and wondering if Wendi saw the word crime on the tape.

 

[justice1960]

Yes, and CA was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, which underlies the conviction of 1st degree murder. IMO he was convicted because KM testified she was in a conspiracy with him.

KM was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, which underlies the conviction of first degree murder, because the driver testified against her that they were in a conspiracy to commit murder.

So, IMO, if they can get CA to testify that DA and WA were in the conspiracy with him, then they will be charged.

JMO

IMO...or unless, they have something else like tapped phone calls between DA/WA.

 

[Cutie]

I loved this detailed body language analysis of Wendi on the stand (by 4 experts of The Behavior Panel). Would anyone else care to join me in asking them to do a part 2 and analyze her police interview? I would LOVE to hear their comments on her authenticity...or lack thereof.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I loved this detailed body language analysis of Wendi on the stand (by 4 experts of The Behavior Panel). Would anyone else care to join me in asking them to do a part 2 and analyze her police interview? I would LOVE to hear their comments on her authenticity...or lack thereof.

Heck yes! Would love a part two!

I’m traveling, but have tried to keep up with the thread when I can. Have any of the jurors given any interviews post verdict? I’m dying to know their thoughts if they are willing to share.

 

[cottonweaver]

Wide-eyed WA is looking out for WA. I think she planned for CA to fall as a backup plan, and I think there is evidence that she has a passive but effective pattern of manipulating others to do her bidding. The TV talk alone tells me she knew about the intention to kill DM. I think the TV business was way too Hollywood an attempt at code for most people to believe. I think using TV as code was a ham-handed attempt to say,"See, any associations between TV and murder that you find are just a reference to CA's dumb joke". No murder plot here, just a dumb dumb joke that no one thinks is funny. I think this is the product of overthinking the plot.

WA's interview with the police was her layering confusing details into the mix. If a person is attempting to sow doubt, it is a better strategy to fling minor details implying many possibilities out there (including CA and JL) so that the police are confused in their investigation. WA HAD to broadly suggest that her family could be involved, as it was too obvious an option to avoid mentioning. It would be suspicious in its absence from her list of possibilities. It also, conveniently, put them in the line of fire in front of her. She also mixes in the truth to some degree when she knows there is irrefutable evidence out there. In the Alex M case, he used the same strategy in police interviews, and he also happens to be an attorney. When there are many investigative threads to follow, it is difficult to stitch together a consistent narrative. It is like the difference between untangling 2 necklaces or untangling the entire jumbled jewelry box. Not sure if that metaphor works for anyone but me.

Also, too solid an alibi casts suspicion, ironically. Innocent people will likely have basic alibis much of the time, I am guessing. I think she was going for a "good enough" alibi that would also permit her to drive by the crime scene to confirm the crime. I don't think you can have a mother as cruel as DA without developing a sadistic streak, yourself (Much of the time. There are some exceptional humans out there). Changing the middle and last names of the children was also completely unnecessary and savage. It is really inconsistent with the persona that WA presents to the world, and I think it deserves special attention. This is the real "her."

I think the A's assumed that the investigation would work outwards from WA, rather than from the hired killer side back to her. They put so much more effort into insulating WA from the mess than concealing connections to CA from the other side. Apparently, she was perfectly fine with that.

I think this whole mess is the result of WA's puppeteering. I have a concept I call the "little spider". Imagine a small spider crawling along the floor while a bright light casts its shadow on the wall in giant form. WA is the little spider, CA is the large shadow. I think she knows how to get her family members rabidly lathered up and foamy to the point of irrationality.

If I were friends with WA, I'd be very ashamed of participating in anything that remotely offers her shelter from suspicion. Even if they think she was not involved, justice requires people being willing to speak out, even when it makes them uncomfortable. Someone knows something important.

Sorry! What a tome. I really struggle to be brief.

Excellent post.
Also great analogy, tiny spider unseen, CA's more obvious large shadow.
Also re who manipulates whom, remember that WA said herself in her podcast that she didn't know where her mom started and where Wendy ended. ( Have forgotten the exact quote)

Re Wendi's culpability, I used to get so tired with Lawyer-commentators over the years who'd repeat ad nauseum -
' A guilty person would never do X, Y or Z' ( eg volunteer 5 hrs with Isom, advertise inculpatory evidence, hand over their devices willingly, interview without a lawyer.... etc etc)
A couple more tropes which snowballed over time were ' they would have done it for her, without her knowledge because they infantilised her' and more recently ' Charlie will be annihilated if he takes the stand'

It's a long time ago, but one thing that always struck me from Demko's interview with Isom, couple of days after murder, was that wtte ' Wendi is the master of misdirection.'

I wholeheartedly endorse your last paragraph. Lots of these people know lots of small details which - when put together by prosecutors - at the very least, could help build a stronger circumstantial case.

Consider the profiles of Team Wendi's associates - they weren't mush-brained people like Magbanua. I wonder how they justify to themselves the withholding info and how often some of them browse the WS threads for case updates?

 

[cottonweaver]

Heck yes! Would love a part two!

I’m traveling, but have tried to keep up with the thread when I can. Have any of the jurors given any interviews post verdict? I’m dying to know their thoughts if they are willing to share.

Not yet, that I've heard of but if you're intereted 'Asian American Legal Focus' did a post trial interview with one of the trial witnesses - Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Surprising - he watched the whole of the trial. Sounds like he watched as much as we did. Maybe he should join WS under a pseudonym, in anticipation of Donna's indictment.

 

[GordonX]

some good quotes from the STS show -

“The only thing worse than never having money is having money and losing it.” - Tim Jansen

“It’s hard to take money from people who their whole life is money - it isn’t about the money - it’s about what the money can do.” “Even great people make stupid choices. In the short term you can fake class. But you can't fake it for long. Cream rises to the top.” “For these people - it’s them - and then there’s everyone else. Everyone else is a second class citizen.” “A small rudder steers a big ship.” “Redeemable people will be redeemed. And there are some people that are not redeemable.” “When you really get to the core of narcissism - they don’t give a crap about anybody else. They don’t care! There is THEM, THEM, and THEM. That’s it - in a narcissist’s world. They matter - and if they got to trip you or shoot you on the way down - they’ll do whatever it takes. In Wendi’s world - it’s WENDI, WENDI, WENDI. Narcissists are walking the line of sociopaths - and they are dangerous people - the most dangerous people that are walking today.” “That group of people do not give up - they think the general rule doesn't apply to them.” - Dr. Roger Rhoades

“I don't know how I'd be able to reconcile anything - there's no more women, there's no more big screen TVs, there's no more rain falling on your face, there’s no more Ferraris, there's no nothing. He's just going to be in a prison the rest of his natural life.” - Joel Waldman

“All this is her driving the train on this.” - Carl Steinbeck

“Freedom is wasted on the free. Their own mind is their prison. Now I just appreciate the rain falling on my head and I get up with a vigor every day.” - Tommy Scoville

Is Donna Adelson the Next Domino to Fall in the Dan Markel Murder Case - Surviving The Survivor: #BestGuests in True Crime - Joel Waldman

 

[cottonweaver]

I loved this detailed body language analysis of Wendi on the stand (by 4 experts of The Behavior Panel). Would anyone else care to join me in asking them to do a part 2 and analyze her police interview? I would LOVE to hear their comments on her authenticity...or lack thereof.

Hands up who thinks that WA watches this kind of show for tips to improve her trial performance and her defense?

 

[cottonweaver]

Thank you amicuscurie. You explained it much better than me. I think I got hung up on reading somewhere that it was "crime scene" tape and wondering if Wendi saw the word crime on the tape.

I had a look at page 1 of WS threads on Dan Markel, and here's an example from @dotr from the week ending July 23rd 2014, there's a clip which shows the tape which was used . ( There are other old links on that thread)

I trust that, before the next trial, the state will nail down the old footage because it will be very easy for them to establish exactly where the tape was erected. ( In this last trial the Defense exploited the fact that Brannan thought it was 3-4 houses away, and TPD's Maltese testified it was 5 or more houses away and some of the old footage will be better than the grainy satellite map used in the trial)

 

[GordonX]

“When the FBI calls you - they already know everything. So you better tell them everything - and tell the truth.” “In his mind he convinced himself that he didn’t do it. Narcissistic Sociopath.” “No I didn't need an attorney because it's not hard to remember the truth if you just tell the truth. That’s how I was raised. People that have to worry about testifying are people that are lying.” “That would be a bad idea for that hit man. I’ll send him my address.” “He talked a lot. He couldn’t shut up. All they did was talk about this. And they thought it was smart to use codes. I watched Goodfellas, I’ve see Casino. You don’t talk on the phone.” - Ryan Fitzpatrick - Live Discussion with Charlie Adelson's Former Best Friend Ryan Fitzpatrick - AALegalFocus

 

[amicuscurie]

Not yet, that I've heard of but if you're intereted 'Asian American Legal Focus' did a post trial interview with one of the trial witnesses - Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Surprising - he watched the whole of the trial. Sounds like he watched as much as we did. Maybe he should join WS under a pseudonym, in anticipation of Donna's indictment.

Dbm

 

[amicuscurie]

“When the FBI calls you - they already know everything. So you better tell them everything - and tell the truth.” “In his mind he convinced himself that he didn’t do it. Narcissistic Sociopath.” “No I didn't need an attorney because it's not hard to remember the truth if you just tell the truth. That’s how I was raised. People that have to worry about testifying are people that are lying.” “That would be a bad idea for that hit man. I’ll send him my address.” “He talked a lot. He couldn’t shut up. All they did was talk about this. And they thought it was smart to use codes. I watched Goodfellas, I’ve see Casino. You don’t talk on the phone.” - Ryan Fitzpatrick - Live Discussion with Charlie Adelson's Former Best Friend Ryan Fitzpatrick - AALegalFocus

Was he also raised to use ethnic slurs?

 

[GordonX]

Was he also raised to use ethnic slurs? Sorry, but it upset me. Even if you’re referring to Charlie, there’s no excuse for that. Too bad it didn’t get more attention from court watchers. It was pretty glaring to me. But, sure, he doesn’t lie. Ok.

i think that text was in the heat of the moment and he was just trying to lash back at CA and it was just a small snippet of the back and forth exchange. and BTW his current girlfriend is half Jewish for whatever that is worth.

 

[amicuscurie]

i think that text was in the heat of the moment and he was just trying to lash back at CA and it was just a small snippet of the back and forth exchange. and BTW his current girlfriend is half Jewish for whatever that is worth.

Let’s just agree to disagree. I don’t use language like that, even in the heat of the moment, and I would bet you don’t either.

 

[cottonweaver]

dbm
already answered by Gordon

but just to be clear:
IMO you don't need to like a trial witness or agree with what they say in order to have an interest in details of their relationship to the defendant.

 

[amicuscurie]

dbm
already answered by Gordon

but just to be clear:
IMO you don't need to like a trial witness or agree with what they say in order to have an interest in details of their relationship to the defendant.

I believe him, I think he was being truthful on the stand. The slur just jumped out at me, I’ve never heard anyone say anything like that before. Maybe I’m naive. Charlie also associated with Katie, and there is a text from her where she uses the N word. These were Charlie’s friends. I acknowledge there‘s a huge difference between use of offensive terms and criminal activity, not to mention murder, and I commend Ryan for doing the right thing and speaking up.

 

[Sustained]

Looks like 20/20 is covering the Markel murder tonight