GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #20

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Seattle1 said:
^^rsbm

To be clear, not implying "white collar" criminal defense lawyers in general are not capable of representing felony murderers but that some are better than others. For example, Descalzo's own bio does not indicate she's represented individuals charged with murder or multi-counts of murder.

David Oscar Markus (and Margot Moss) recently represented the very wealthy Lawrence Rudolph, DDS, in US District Federal Court for killing his wife Bianca while on safari (and $$$ insurance fraud). Although Rudolph was convicted, it wasn't for ineffective counsel. I think same can be said for Rashbaum and CA. MOO

www.theguardian.com

Wealthy US dentist who killed wife for insurance money sentenced to life in prison

Lawrence ‘Larry’ Rudolph also ordered to make restitution on the money he got from the life insurance policies by paying $15m
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Didn't Markus dump this dentist-murder case for the safari dentist-murder case? I seem to recall that he was attorney of record for Charlie early on.
 
cottonweaver said:
who's not listed as witnesses in the PCA for her arrest:

www.websleuths.com

GUILTY - FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #19

I’m pretty positive that the officer was questioned fairly pointedly as to the location of the tape. I think it was CAs trial but I’ve been watching the 1st 2 trials lately so not exactly sure which one. Anyway during his testimony I think he said the tape was 4-5 houses down … he was then...
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
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That is an interesting link….from that link it says:
quote
Jones told Adelson she couldn't contact the victim's family, any co-defendants or any witnesses listed in the probable cause affidavit of her arrest.' No bond: Donna Adelson has first hearing in Leon County in Dan Markel murder case

probable cause aff - arrest - no witnesses listed
Donna Adelson’s arrest papers detail suicide, ‘getting things in order’ and plan to flee following son Charlie’s murder conviction

unquote.
So does this mean she is able to talk to WA and HA since from the above quote, it states there are no witnesses listed in probable cause affidavit?
 
BearWatcher said:
So does this mean she is able to talk to WA and HA since from the above quote, it states there are no witnesses listed in probable cause affidavit?
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I believe so and since I posted that the new motion from Descalzo details that Donna has in fact had a call with Harvey

Maybe that will change but it might be in the state's interest to allow Donna to chat to Harvey ( She can't run her mouth to Charlie but maybe she'll make some incriminating comments to her husband over time?)
 
BearWatcher said:
That is an interesting link….from that link it says:
quote
Jones told Adelson she couldn't contact the victim's family, any co-defendants or any witnesses listed in the probable cause affidavit of her arrest.' No bond: Donna Adelson has first hearing in Leon County in Dan Markel murder case

probable cause aff - arrest - no witnesses listed
Donna Adelson’s arrest papers detail suicide, ‘getting things in order’ and plan to flee following son Charlie’s murder conviction

unquote.
So does this mean she is able to talk to WA and HA since from the above quote, it states there are no witnesses listed in probable cause affidavit?
Click to expand...
Probable cause affidavits are narratives. Unlike discovery disclosures, they don't set out witness lists per se. I don't know exactly what they mean by witnesses listed in the pca. I imagine its anyone who is named as being involved in or having knowledge of the events described in the affidavit. JMO.
 
clearskies1 said:
Probable cause affidavits are narratives. Unlike discovery disclosures, they don't set out witness lists per se. I don't know exactly what they mean by witnesses listed in the pca. I imagine its anyone who is named as being involved in or having knowledge of the events described in the affidavit. JMO.
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The probable cause affidavit does mention WA, HA, and CA, so maybe that makes them “witnesses” or “co-conspirators.” But in my opinion the no contact order is not well-written, as it does not set forth with enough specificity who exactly she is not allowed to contact. It seems to me like boilerplate language that just doesn’t apply in this case. It lists general categories, “witnesses” where there is no witness list, “co-conspirators” where neither WA nor HA has been charged with conspiracy. If the state is not careful, it might be possible for DA to exploit this vagueness and contact whoever she wants. We are not dealing with an individual who thinks rules apply to her, in my opinion, so leaving any sort of loophole could be dangerous.
 
amicuscurie said:
The probable cause affidavit does mention WA, HA, and CA, so maybe that makes them “witnesses” or “co-conspirators.” But in my opinion the no contact order is not well-written, as it does not set forth with enough specificity who exactly she is not allowed to contact. It seems to me like boilerplate language that just doesn’t apply in this case. And if the state is not careful, it might be possible for DA to exploit this vagueness and contact whoever she wants. We are not dealing with an individual who thinks rules apply to her, in my opinion, so leaving any sort of loophole could be dangerous.
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Yes, it was a generic no-contact order. Vague. State may actually want DA to be able to contact WA, HA and CA because it's all recorded in the calls....Maybe it will be clarified at the arraignment. JMO.
 
clearskies1 said:
Yes, it was a generic no-contact order. Vague. State may actually want DA to be able to contact WA, HA and CA because it's all recorded in the calls....Maybe it will be clarified at the arraignment. JMO.
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The State does seem to be taking a great interest in her non-privileged phone calls. Frankly, I am a little confused about how DA could have amassed so many relevant calls (as indicated on the State's discovery) since her arrest if she hasn't been allowed to call HA but once. DA cannot exist without being in significant contact with at least one of her three co-conspirators -- HA, WA or DA. They are her life-line. I predict that she will not last to trial at this rate and we will watch her continue to deteriorate.
 
amicuscurie said:
The probable cause affidavit does mention WA, HA, and CA, so maybe that makes them “witnesses” or “co-conspirators.” But in my opinion the no contact order is not well-written, as it does not set forth with enough specificity who exactly she is not allowed to contact. It seems to me like boilerplate language that just doesn’t apply in this case. It lists general categories, “witnesses” where there is no witness list, “co-conspirators” where neither WA nor HA has been charged with conspiracy. If the state is not careful, it might be possible for DA to exploit this vagueness and contact whoever she wants. We are not dealing with an individual who thinks rules apply to her, in my opinion, so leaving any sort of loophole could be dangerous.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, the PCA for Donna was pretty much a cut and paste from CA's PCA, and boilerplate is a good analogy here.

IMO, DA is still in the early process of prosecution -- not even a month since her arrest, and I think we will see more definitive terms for no contact during or soon after her arraignment in Leon County.

In my experience, it's often following the preliminary hearing (when the Court deems there's sufficient evidence to bound the defendant over for trial) where we see "Mandatory Protection Orders" issued, formally naming every individual under no-contact, and the Order enforceable in every civil and criminal Court in the United States, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2265, and/or applicable State Statue.

The Order is signed by the Judge as well as the defendant where there are contempt of court consequences for violating the formal Order which remains in effect until disposition of the case. I think we can expect to see something similar for DA-- more specific terms very soon. JMO


ETA: Also, under a "Mandatory Protection Order" following an arrest as described above, I should note that it's also not unusual to see a spouse or child named on the formal Order where a box is also checked to include additional disclaimer language such as: "Is further ordered that: civil contact is allowed."

In other words, I often liken this to defendant being allowed monitored, recorded contact with immediate family for as long as the defendant remains under good behavior, adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse, not deficient in common courtesy. If the defendant fails to maintain civil contact, the privilege will be revoked.
 
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stamplewie said:
The State does seem to be taking a great interest in her non-privileged phone calls. Frankly, I am a little confused about how DA could have amassed so many relevant calls (as indicated on the State's discovery) since her arrest if she hasn't been allowed to call HA but once. DA cannot exist without being in significant contact with at least one of her three co-conspirators -- HA, WA or DA. They are her life-line. I predict that she will not last to trial at this rate and we will watch her continue to deteriorate.
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Yup Carl Steinbeck predicated when she was arrested that she would quickly deteriorate and not make it to her trial. I think when her wish to be in home detention is denied and reality sets in that this is her life until she dies, she will very quickly crumble.
 
BearWatcher said:
So does this mean she is able to talk to WA and HA since from the above quote, it states there are no witnesses listed in probable cause affidavit?
Click to expand...

I believe this to be true per the footnote/edit to my post below re. Statutory "Mandatory Protection Order" following a felony murder arrest/arraignment. However, given WA's immunity deal, I think the State Prosecutor might have have a valid reason to challenge WA allowed civil contact with DA but this is for a Judge to decide.

I'm following another case in Utah where a wife allegedly murdered her husband by giving him 5x lethal dose of fentanyl, seeking to gain from $$Millions in life insurance. The defendant was denied bond and during jailhouse contact with her mother and brother, the prosecution accused the defendant of witness tampering.

According to reports, authorities found a handwritten letter in her jail cell, instructing her mother to convince her brother to testify falsely. Although the matter surrounding witness tampering charges has not been settled, a Utah Judge did agree with the defense that it would be a violation of the defendant's civil rights to be prohibited from communicating with her family that are not under indictment or being charged in her case. In DA's case, this would likely include her husband HA and daughter WA. To be clear, this does not mean that normal jailhouse protocol is not followed including recording and monitoring communication with the parties allowed civil contact. MOO
Seattle1 said:
ETA: Also, under a "Mandatory Protection Order" following an arrest as described above, I should note that it's also not unusual to see a spouse or child named on the formal Order where a box is also checked to include additional disclaimer language such as: "Is further ordered that: civil contact is allowed."

In other words, I often liken this to defendant being allowed monitored, recorded contact with immediate family for as long as the defendant remains under good behavior, adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse, not deficient in common courtesy. If the defendant fails to maintain civil contact, the privilege will be revoked.
Click to expand...


www.jackricelaw.com

The Consequences of Witness Tampering: A Lesson from the Kouri Richins Case — Jack Rice Defense

Kouri Richins is currently facing murder and drug charges for allegedly poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, with a fentanyl overdose.
www.jackricelaw.com www.jackricelaw.com
 
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It sounds like they are alleging that Donna can't get Tallahassee defense Attorneys to take her case because of the bad media publicity they're claiming the family has had. That likely explains why she has a Miami attorney who does white-collar crimes. They will undoubtedly be looking to change venue on this.
 
amicuscurie said:
He did represent Charlie early on. Don’t know what happened there.
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I don't know either, after almost 6 years of representation. I would hazard a guess he might have met DM once or twice. They were the same age.
" The Firm’s founder, David Oscar Markus, is a Harvard-educated lawyer who has been described as “wickedly smart and a terrific trial lawyer.” His clients say that he is “the whole package” and “a creative, courageous and tenacious courtroom advocate.”
The att'd article (hit the continue reading button so you can finish reading the aritcle without providing your email.) The author, David Lat speculates (May 2022) on 3 different theories why DOM's firm withdrew. (None of them being my theory. Go figure.)
davidlat.substack.com

The Dan Markel Case: Charlie Adelson Gets A New Lawyer

Why did his first lawyer, David Oscar Markus, withdraw from the case?
davidlat.substack.com davidlat.substack.com
 
Missyrocks5 said:
It sounds like they are alleging that Donna can't get Tallahassee defense Attorneys to take her case because of the bad media publicity they're claiming the family has had. That likely explains why she has a Miami attorney who does white-collar crimes. They will undoubtedly be looking to change venue on this.
Click to expand...
DA can ask all she wants but she is as likely to get a venue change as she is of getting home arrest. It is rather amazing that over the last decade none of the Adelson's have thought to hire a local criminal defense lawyer in Tallahassee to add to their team. Most of the good criminal defense lawyers in Tallahassee are probably now talking heads on podcasts and conflicted out. Hard to believe that WA hasn't found a top notch defense attorney for DA and is allowing her to be represented by a health care attorney from Miami who is clearly way over her head on this.
 
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