FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #15

[Seattle1]

I still have the question on why GC would have ever offered WA immunity, even if limited, what did WA provide that 1) could only come from WA if she was given immunity and/or 2) could not have come from any other person, investigative technique, etc….and was so crucial to “get” that the immunity was offered in exchange for that info?

I’m still perplexed at that. I am just assuming those would be some of the stuff thought about when making an offer of immunity, especially like when you read Luis’ cooperation agreement; but I don’t know what Wendi could’ve offered that was so important to the case that they needed to give her something in order to get it. Especially when WA still seems to be denying & misrepresenting and downplaying her knowledge, role, etc. JMOO.

Actually, the very subject of use and derivative use immunity becomes necessary for any subpoenaed witnesses who would otherwise be counseled by any competent defense attorney to exercise their 5th amendment right and not answer any questions unless they are granted immunity.

This was the same explanation of why DA/HA did not attend their first appointment where their attorney cited they would simply be wasting the prosecutions time since they intended to remain silent if they showed for the interview. They too (the parents) would have received the same immunity as WA.

Yes, it would be great if the prosecutor could pick and chose which statements at trial by the witness receives immunity but it doesn't work that way!

LR's cooperation agreement is not comparable as his was a post conviction agreement vs a witness subpoena.

 

[amicuscurie]

^^rsbm

I believe there's a difference here with JL because his consistent testimony is what he was told by WA, and where WA can be called to defend herself if necessary.

In the example of what WA may have said to the Geek Squad who never testified, I think the use or derivative use immunity protects what WA allegedly said to repairman from being impeached (it's also hearsay).

There were pretrial Motions about this where the court had to rule whether or not the State could use JL testimony to impeach WA.

In other words, I think the immunity granted WA explains why GC didn't challenge several bits we picked up on that were outright lies by WA compared to WA's previous testimony. JMO

Can’t they impeach her with her own statement at the police station? They did that when she said that her parents weren’t angry at Dan. They pulled the transcript where she says “my parents were angry at Dan.” So if she says she didn’t tell the tv repairman the joke, can’t they show her saying at the police station “I told the repairman the joke?” Not even sure that is hearsay, but in any event, it’s for impeachment. They don’t need the repairman, they have her saying it. Prior inconsistent statement.

 

[clearskies1]

I still have the question on why GC would have ever offered WA immunity, even if limited, what did WA provide that 1) could only come from WA if she was given immunity and/or 2) could not have come from any other person, investigative technique, etc….and was so crucial to “get” that the immunity was offered in exchange for that info?

I’m still perplexed at that. I am just assuming those would be some of the stuff thought about when making an offer of immunity, especially like when you read Luis’ cooperation agreement; but I don’t know what Wendi could’ve offered that was so important to the case that they needed to give her something in order to get it. Especially when WA still seems to be denying & misrepresenting and downplaying her knowledge, role, etc. JMOO.

I'm not sure, but I think it's a good thing that Wendi testifed. It brings to life the family dynamics. Otherwise, it would just be people talking about Wendi and the Adelsons, which seems less compelling and less informative than seeing Wendi on the stand. JMO.

 

[amicuscurie]

I's not sure, but I think it's a good thing that Wendi testifed. It brings to life the family dynamics. Otherwise, it would just be people talking about Wendi and the Adelsons, which seems less compelling and less informative than seeing Wendi on the stand. JMO.

I agree it would look bad if the person who was married to the victim didn’t testify. Especially since the prosecution is arguing that the motive was the contentious divorce.

 

[Hiller]

Regarding WA's incessant repeating of the hit man "joke", a reasonable conjecture is that she is such a narcissist that she actually (whether consciously or only subconsciously) wanted to draw attention to CA because doing so would naturally draw suspicion away from her. She grew up as the little princess in a family where deceit was normal. CA seems like he was the classic middle child, fighting for mom's attention and approval as the princess was the focus of attention. And the princess, despite her looks and brains, ended up a self-centered narcissist unable to have a fulfilling marriage with DM or, it seems, anyone else. And by the way, I believe that this narcissist is not the selfless mother she is often assumed to be. After all, she left her sons without a father and half of their family, and left them with voids in their hearts for the rest of their lives. (Disclaimer: I am not a psychiatrist!)

 

[Weki]

King Tato is gonna lose his mind when he finds out exactly what Charlie is alleging. I expect Rashbaum is gonna raise the roof tomorrow morning. It will be a contentious cross to say the least! JMO

 

[amicuscurie]

Regarding WA's incessant repeating of the hit man "joke", a reasonable conjecture is that she is such a narcissist that she actually (whether consciously or only subconsciously) wanted to draw attention to CA because doing so would naturally draw suspicion away from her. She grew up as the little princess in a family where deceit was normal. CA seems like he was the classic middle child, fighting for mom's attention and approval as the princess was the focus of attention. And the princess, despite her looks and brains, ended up a self-centered narcissist unable to have a fulfilling marriage with DM or, it seems, anyone else. And by the way, I believe that this narcissist is not the selfless mother she is often assumed to be. After all, she left her sons without a father and half of their family, and left them with voids in their hearts for the rest of their lives. (Disclaimer: I am not a psychiatrist!)

Makes sense.

 

[Tapeartree]

I am really looking forward to RA’s testimony. IIRC, he hasn’t testified in the prior trials. What do you guys think he will have to say?

I heard his name on the witness list, but I don't think he will be called. I don't see how he would fit into this case. If I recall, he doesn't have much communication with his family. He probably knows a bit of the family dynamic, he's not included in the daily contact. It seems mama couldn't control RA; so she hasn't much use for him, and he is probably treated like a stranger.

 

[amicuscurie]

I heard his name on the witness list, but I don't think he will be called. I don't see how he would fit into this case. If I recall, he doesn't have much communication with his family. He probably knows a bit of the family dynamic, he's not included in the daily contact. It seems mama couldn't control RA; so she hasn't much use for him, and he is probably treated like a stranger.

There are a few new people on the witness list who could be interesting. I thought I saw the Tv repairman on there.

 

[katiecoolady]

We documented Wendi's drive that day as she (in my opinion) cruised the crime scene to report back that the murder had occurred.

 

[Seattle1]

So Latin Kings will be the subject of Rivera's cross examination? I wonder if it will be a repeat on the 1st trial where Garcia's attorney repeatedly mentioned Latin Kings several times. Rivera will not like it and he will be feisty once Latin Kings is brought up. He considers the gang a family to him.

If I understand correctly, the difference now compared to previous trials, it's undisputed that LR was a member of the LK and was serving time in prison for an unrelated matter when he decided to cooperate with the state. In this trial, after the proffer, for the first time the defense can identify LR's prior act that put him in prison (i.e., Rico charge) which couldn't previously be mentioned and/or brought up at trial.

On Friday, in GC's direct examination of LR, they already exposed that LR was in prison on a Rico charge, and LR was very direct that Dan's murder had NOTHING to do with the LK's -- this was an job that came to him only because SG, his childhood friend, asked him for his assistance.

I'm not certain what the defense expects to gain from LR acknowledging he's in prison for an unrelated RICO violation.

For RICO purposes, a person charged with a RICO violation must have been engaging in a minimum of two predicate crimes ("predicate offenses") within a 10-year time frame. These predicate offenses must also have been committed in connection with an enterprise. An enterprise may be a legal or an illegal one. It could be a corporation or a mob. The enterprise must be a discrete entity.

IMO, if the murder of Dan was part of a contract hit by the LK's, this case would probably be in federal court and there would be no SG and KM as co-defendants.

I see the LR proffer as a nothing burger. MOO

The RICO ACT (1970)

ETA: add 5/12/2015 link re. 23 Members indicted on RICO

23 Latin Kings Members Indicted in Major Miami Gang Sweep

Twenty-three members of the Latin Kings street gang were dethroned today. United States Attorney Wifredo A. Ferrer announced today that they were swept up in five separate indictments, and that all were dangerous or violent offenders. Many were high ranking members of the criminal group. Five...

www.miaminewtimes.com

Among those taken down were Christopher Isabel, better known is the gang as "King Nano." According to The Sun-Sentinel, he's believed to be second in command of the gangs operations in Florida. Bobbie Tejada, AKA "King Riko" was a regional officer for the gang in South Florida. Luis Rivera, AKA King Tato, was allegedly the leader of the group's North Miami operations. Juan Alvarez (King Juanmo) and Lazaro Castellon (King Speedy or King Laz) were the first and second in command respectively of the group's South Miami operations, the feds say. Leaders of the gang in Broward and Palm Beach counties were also indicted.

Among the charges listed in the indictments are robbery, drug dealing, conspiracy and firearm offenses. Many members may face life in prison. [No conspiracy to murder or contract killing].

"Today’s charges demonstrate that we are dedicated to improving public safety and the quality of life for law-abiding residents by protecting neighborhoods, adopting proactive law enforcement initiatives, and prosecuting repeat offenders, firearms violators and criminal networks.

 

[Mariposa]

I’ve always believed Wendi told Donna everything about her life, and Donna knew Dan was going out of town the next day. Especially since he was going to visit his new girlfriend. I think that’s something she would’ve told her mother. Donna wouldn’t even have needed to ask Wendi Dan’s schedule, she could have just passed that info on to Charlie. I believe she was that involved in Wendi’s life. From the tone of her emails, she sounds very strongly identified with Wendi. When she’s suggesting arguments Wendi should make in favor of the relocation, she uses the first person, “My parents’ finances have suffered.” It was Donna’s Motion for Relocation, in reality. Wendi may have been more willing to accept that it would be denied and she could try again later. The urgency for this crime was all Donna.

In the My Dead Body Podcast: Tally episode 6, RA and his wife were saying that WA’s wedding was like DA’s wedding. And that WA’s divorce was pretty much DA’s divorce.

 

[Rivkah11]

Re: Katie’s proffer. I know it’s been sealed, so the public doesn’t know what she says, but does the defense know? is it sealed from them too?

 

[vislaw]

Re: Katie’s proffer. I know it’s been sealed, so the public doesn’t know what she says, but does the defense know? is it sealed from them too?

The defense knows and asked that it be sealed.

 

[amicuscurie]

The defense knows and asked that it be sealed.

So, their theory must have been crafted to fit with Katie’s proffer. Wonder what we can infer from that. She must’ve admitted she came to CA’s house on the night of the murder to collect the money, she got paid through the dental practice (if it really was just for insurance and not the murder, why would the defense need to go into their whole “extortion in installments” theory?). She must’ve admitted she rented them the cars. How does the extortion theory get around that? If they’ve heard her admit to participating in the arrangements, they must be arguing that SHE was extorting Charlie, and that Katie knew beforehand. I just didn’t get that from their opening. Is the jury as confused as I am?

 

[Hiller]

We documented Wendi's drive that day as she (in my opinion) cruised the crime scene to report back that the murder had occurred.

Sticking with my out-of-consensus speculation that WA could not have anticipated a roadblock with any degree of certainty and therefore must have planned to drive past the house, see the police activity, stop, and then stage the I-am-shocked performance that she ended up performing at the interrogation. Planned lunch with a WA no-show only supported the "surprise". Don't flame me bro!

 

[Seattle1]

Seems to me that Sigfredo is still obsessed to her, he even wrote a love letter to her while in prison (can't remember when but it was years back before Katie's conviction). No wonder why he chose to stay silent. Does he even know that Katie is already convicted? I wonder if he has access to that news.

Katie controls his life and even then, he chose to become a dog to their relationship. I remember that Rivera told us that Katie messed him up by the breakup and the cheating.

I recall the letter by SG (nice penmanship) to KM. I believe it was written less than 48 hours after he was found guilty, and the KM verdict was hung jury.

In the letter, SG affirms KM was the best thing to ever enter his life and vows to support her -- etc.

I still believe SG killing Dan was KM's test for him to prove his love to her. Sick, sick, KM and CA deserved each other. MOO

 

[Mariposa]

@amicuscurie -- And this brings up yet another question about WA: after seeing the crime tape, did she ever call the daycare to check on her children and confirm they were indeed at at school? We know she missed or did not pick up an incoming call from Dan the morning he was murdered so I'm not sure WA knew for certain her kids were safe at school and not at home!

RSBM.

Re knowing the kids were dropped off at daycare—Listening to the police interview with WA again, she says DM left her a voicemail at about 9:03 AM. They were trying to set up a time to talk about their latest dispute, where to register the older child for school. (That was also why DM was talking on the phone to the music teacher guy about that same school when he got shot). WA tells Isom that DM said in the message that he was just heading into the gym but would be free about 10:30 and they could talk after that. She says she called DM at like 11:45 AM but he didn’t answer.

Based on the voicemail that he was going into the gym I think she would have known the kids were dropped off.

 

[Seattle1]

RSBM.

Re knowing the kids were dropped off at daycare—Listening to the police interview with WA again, she says DM left her a voicemail at about 9:03 AM. They were trying to set up a time to talk about their latest dispute, where to register the older child for school. (That was also why DM was talking on the phone to the music teacher guy about that same school when he got shot). WA tells Isom that DM said in the message that he was just heading into the gym but would be free about 10:30 and they could talk after that. She says she called DM at like 11:45 AM but he didn’t answer.

Based on the voicemail that he was going into the gym I think she would have known the kids were dropped off.

Thanks for confirming, @Mariposa -- otherwise I'd be wanting proof of when WA truly listened to the VM from Dan!

 

[clearskies1]

If I understand correctly, the difference now compared to previous trials, it's undisputed that LR was a member of the LK and was serving time in prison for an unrelated matter when he decided to cooperate with the state. In this trial, after the proffer, for the first time the defense can identify LR's prior act that put him in prison (i.e., Rico charge) which couldn't previously be mentioned and/or brought up at trial.

On Friday, in GC's direct examination of LR, they already exposed that LR was in prison on a Rico charge, and LR was very direct that Dan's murder had NOTHING to do with the LK's -- this was an job that came to him only because SG, his childhood friend, asked him for his assistance.

I'm not certain what the defense expects to gain from LR acknowledging he's in prison for an unrelated RICO violation.

For RICO purposes, a person charged with a RICO violation must have been engaging in a minimum of two predicate crimes ("predicate offenses") within a 10-year time frame. These predicate offenses must also have been committed in connection with an enterprise. An enterprise may be a legal or an illegal one. It could be a corporation or a mob. The enterprise must be a discrete entity.

IMO, if the murder of Dan was part of a contract hit by the LK's, this case would probably be in federal court and there would be no SG and KM as co-defendants.

I see the LR proffer as a nothing burger. MOO

The RICO ACT (1970)

ETA: add 5/12/2015 link re. 23 Members indicted on RICO

23 Latin Kings Members Indicted in Major Miami Gang Sweep

Twenty-three members of the Latin Kings street gang were dethroned today. United States Attorney Wifredo A. Ferrer announced today that they were swept up in five separate indictments, and that all were dangerous or violent offenders. Many were high ranking members of the criminal group. Five...

www.miaminewtimes.com

Among those taken down were Christopher Isabel, better known is the gang as "King Nano." According to The Sun-Sentinel, he's believed to be second in command of the gangs operations in Florida. Bobbie Tejada, AKA "King Riko" was a regional officer for the gang in South Florida. Luis Rivera, AKA King Tato, was allegedly the leader of the group's North Miami operations. Juan Alvarez (King Juanmo) and Lazaro Castellon (King Speedy or King Laz) were the first and second in command respectively of the group's South Miami operations, the feds say. Leaders of the gang in Broward and Palm Beach counties were also indicted.

Among the charges listed in the indictments are robbery, drug dealing, conspiracy and firearm offenses. Many members may face life in prison. [No conspiracy to murder or contract killing].

"Today’s charges demonstrate that we are dedicated to improving public safety and the quality of life for law-abiding residents by protecting neighborhoods, adopting proactive law enforcement initiatives, and prosecuting repeat offenders, firearms violators and criminal networks.

I guess the defense is going to pound the fact that LR was high up in the Latin Kings organization and will say that CA was afraid that if he went to the cops about the extortion -- even after the arrests and sentencing -- the Latin Kings would come after him for snitching on their brother/leader. Just a thought....JMO.