FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #16

[amicuscurie]

true romance is when your married gf puts you on a payment plan with a gang who killed your brother-in-law essentially becoming the world's first in-reverse hitmen <3 <3

also - is the oldest brother involved with the family at all really? charlie said donna doesnt like his brother.

Oldest brother is not involved with the family. He was interviewed on the podcast Over My Dead Body.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes, very good cross.

But also one of my points, KM does not come off as that smart. Charlie is above average intelligence. Way easier to trap KM than it would be to trap CA in a lie. He had that sh&t rehearsed like no other. I mean he literally quoted the exact date and time frame a phone call he referenced came from?

dbm

 

[cottonweaver]

I don’t think Charlie is particularly intelligent. He can memorize the crap outta things, pass exams, get through dental school, but highly intelligent? No. He’s no Sir Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, or even astrophysicist Sir Brian May (of Queen lol - had to get that in there after mentioning Galileo lol - where’s my guitar emoji?? )

He’s skilled in manipulation, acting like an arrogant know it all, getting what he wants and dating dumb women - I’ll give him that.

I mean look at the people he surrounded himself with.

What’s that saying? “We are known by the company we keep.”

Exactly
Charlie Adelson is just like his sister - as sharp & cunning as a fox but as intelligent AND book smart and accomplished as Dan Markel?
I don't think so
and that's why resentment and jealousy was a feature in both their relationships with Dan.
( eg 'Jibbers' jibberish plus the difficulty Wendi had around acknowledging Markel's Harvard J.D. and being headhunted for d'Alemberte Prof at FSU )

 

[GoJacks]

That just makes him look like he’s lying. Who would have particular dates of phone calls memorized? It was obvious he had gone through all the evidence and had talking points about exculpatory material that he kept returning to.

Oh I agree, as soon as he said it I was like oh that’s a red flag.

I never said it made him look good - just using it as a reference that clearly he is able to memorize things well.

 

[amicuscurie]

Not especially intelligent, but above average imo. I find myself comparing him to Katie. and BBM - yeah I dont trust anyone who'd get that close to someone like Katie.


OOF. That's a doozy. Hope she's on trial next.

I am really confused about him "loving" Katie. Do y'all tend to think the relationship was one big set up to get to Garcia so he could off Dan, or was Charlie genuinely interested in her? They don't seem like a match to me, on any level. Dude is a rich dentist, entitled, doesn't take care of his own kid, why would he want a bottle girl with a gang member husband and 2 children.

Agree. If Charlie was as frazzled as he'd like the jury to believe, he would've been liquidating assets like nobody's business.


That's exactly how I felt. Charlie is a skilled liar. It's obvious his story is garbage, but I can see a weird likeable quality about him on the stand that I'm sure he's been practicing and honing with Rashbum or whatever his name is for forever.

dbm

 

[amicuscurie]

Well - Donna sent a text to Charlie, then deleted it, at this time. Harvey's bday fell in between the 2 trips. Charlie said, "Still working on dad's bday gift..." and she said, "I know you'll come through for us!" Idk, that pushes me in the direction of yes, it was the bday gift. CA is really downplaying on the stand how much he + his entire family discussed Dan, how they hated Dan, how Dan was ruining Wendi's life and he was her biggest mistake, how miserable Dan made Donna... As Dan's own mom put it, "There were 3 in that marriage from the beginning." As in Dan, Wendi, and Donna!

Again the amount of pure disdain for Dan is really being downplayed by CA up there. Wendi too of course

His voice got really quiet when he was forced to admit he thought marrying Dan was her biggest mistake.

 

[cottonweaver]

That just makes him look like he’s lying. Who would have particular dates of phone calls memorized? It was obvious he had gone through all the evidence and had talking points about exculpatory material that he kept returning to.

I agree but I can't recall whether this was explicitly pointed out to the jury again this morning. Do you remember if it was?

 

[clearskies1]

Evidence question- it came out at trial that there is a text from Wendi on June 6 or thereabouts during Harvey’s bday weekend in which she asks Dan if he will be in town July 18. But LaCasse testified that she cancelled a trip with him on June 4, because she had to be home July 18. He testified that she seemed nervous. This was the weekend of the first attempt, according to Luis. Why did she cancel the trip with LaCasse during the first attempt? Was it already unsuccessful when she did that, and then she later texted Dan? The timing of this doesn’t fit for me. It would make more sense if she cancelled the trip after the first attempt, closer in time to when she texted Dan. I’m sure I’m missing something with the dates.

The State may have implying that she was trying to see other guys by that time (June 4). At a minimum, it seemed like the relationship was rocky. I could see not wanting to fly out to meet your boyfriend's parents for the first time if the relationship wasn't going well and maybe she came up with an excuse if she didn't want to deal with a flat out break-up right then. Also, it seems the State's theory is that Wendi thought that Dan would be dead by the time of the trip, and maybe the State thinks she didn't want to deal with the trip considering either or both of those factors. JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I am really confused about him "loving" Katie. Do y'all tend to think the relationship was one big set up to get to Garcia so he could off Dan, or was Charlie genuinely interested in her? They don't seem like a match to me, on any level. Dude is a rich dentist, entitled, doesn't take care of his own kid, why would he want a bottle girl with a gang member husband and 2 children.

^^rsbm

Reportedly, they met at a SOFI-dental where KM was employed and CA was the traveling oral specialist. I'm sure his initial attraction to CA was physical. CA has a type...

By all accounts, they'd only dated a couple of times before Halloween 2013 when CA introduced for the very first time the subject of whether or not KM had knowledge of somebody who could hurt someone. I think CA had a sense of KM's answer before he asked the question.

I think KM's response to that question is what led to CA and KM having another date-- KM, a woman with two children and an off/on again relationship with an undocumented income street hustler, and very close gang member connection.

IMO, it took from Nov to June for CA to confirm KM could help him pull this off, and KM counting stapled stacks of $$$ in her sleep to convince herself. Once the job was done, KM received the 'goodbye tour' from CA.

And no, this was not love. Not even close! JMO

 

[amicuscurie]

^^rsbm

Reportedly, they met at a SOFI-dental where KM was employed and CA was the traveling oral specialist. I'm sure his initial attraction to CA was physical. CA has a type...

By all accounts, they'd only dated a couple of times before Halloween 2013 when CA introduced for the very first time the subject of whether or not KM had knowledge of somebody who could hurt someone. I think CA had a sense of KM's answer before he asked the question.

I think KM's response to that question is what led to CA and KM having another date-- KM, a woman with two children and an off/on again relationship with a street hustler, undocumented income, and a very close gang member connection.

IMO, it took from Nov to June for CA to confirm KM could help him pull this off, and KM counting stapled stacks of $$$ in her sleep to convince herself. Once the job was done, KM received the 'goodbye tour' from CA.

And no, this was not love. Not even close! JMO

He does so much for her after the murder, even when they’re broken up, at least according to the tapes. Does anybody think the jury will buy his explanation that he thought she was protecting him from extortion so he was nice to her?

A few times he said he didnt want her to think he was “setting her up.” Setting him up for what? Georgia didn’t ask. It made me want to ask. His excuses sound good, but IMO there’s not much there when you really look at them. I thought Georgia missed some opportunities like this. She just accepted his explanations even though they didn’t make any sense. My guess she thought the jury would see through him. But a lot of times she couldve asked “what do you mean?” Because I was genuinely confused by his explanations, and if she had forced him to defend them further, he might have fallen apart.

 

[amicuscurie]

To me, it doesn’t seem like HE really understands his theory. He also sounds like he’s been told how this explains everything, and he’s grateful to have this explanation. “See, I was extorted! That explains it! Whew!” JMO

 

[Blue Shakehead]

A lot of experts saying if there is a re-trial, Donna would be tried at the same time as Charlie. And their next point is Donna would never be able to stand up to the pressure that Charlie did.

Completely false. Who do they think raised Wendi and Charlie to be the narcissistic sociopaths they are? She was cool as cucumber during the bump. Cool again when she called the undercover and pretended to be scared and encouraged him to collect the reward. Then shes calling Charlie bragging about how she got him on tape and that he never threatened her, so it must be the police.

She completely ignored Ruth Markel at the funeral when Ruth asked to see her grandsons. This lady is a cold, calculating monster and a deranged lunatic. Sure, she's prone to *advertiser censored* herself worrying about getting arrested, but this has been her life for 7 years now. I suspect that her, Wendi and Harvey have already deluded themselves into believing Charlie's defense. These are not normal people.

 

[amicuscurie]

A lot of experts saying if there is a re-trial, Donna would be tried at the same time as Charlie. And their next point is Donna would never be able to stand up to the pressure that Charlie did.

Completely false. Who do they think raised Wendi and Charlie to be the narcissistic sociopaths they are? She was cool as cucumber during the bump. Cool again when she called the undercover and pretended to be scared and encouraged him to collect the reward. Then shes calling Charlie bragging about how she got him on tape and that he never threatened her, so it must be the police.

She completely ignored Ruth Markel at the funeral when Ruth asked to see her grandsons. This lady is a cold, calculating monster and a deranged lunatic. Sure, she's prone to *advertiser censored* herself worrying about getting arrested, but this has been her life for 7 years now. I suspect that her, Wendi and Harvey have already deluded themselves into believing Charlie's defense. These are not normal people.

I think it is certainly possible that they have convinced themselves that Charlie got involved with some bad people and did this. I don’t know this for a fact, obviously. But it’s possible. I do think Donna sounded genuinely scared when she called the undercover. ”It’s not me!” What is not you?

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I think it is certainly possible that they have convinced themselves that Charlie got involved with some bad people and did this. I don’t know this for a fact, obviously. But it’s possible. I do think Donna sounded genuinely scared when she called the undercover. ”It’s not me!” What is not you?

She was acting. Reading a script. Ten minutes after "its not me!", she's calling Charlie and bragging about how she has it all on tape, and that undercover wasn't threatening her (so he must be just the cops fishing). Does anyone really believe that she wanted the caller to phone the police, solve the murder of Dan Markel and collect the reward? No. Her audience for that call was the police.

 

[Windward Gal]

I promised myself I would disconnect until Monday but I’m back. I freaked myself out by watching a bunch of YouTube commentators who actually think Charlie has a chance. How is that even possible. I don’t care about the cross, what about all the evidence that was presented? If this is another Casey Anthony deal I’m going to need therapy…

 

[amicuscurie]

She was acting. Reading a script. Ten minutes after "its not me!", she's calling Charlie and bragging about how she has it all on tape, and that undercover wasn't threatening her (so he must be just the cops fishing). Does anyone really believe that she wanted the caller to phone the police, solve the murder of Dan Markel and collect the reward? No. Her audience for that call was the police.

How could she have thought that call wasn’t incriminating?

 

[serifina]

Yep I am pretty much done with this too. He is too well rehearsed to slip up.

ETA: I do wish she would ask why his Mom is not there though.

He is slipping up like crazy even though he is rehearsed

 

[userunnamed]

I feel like there were two opportunities that were missed by the prosecution to make this case a slam dunk for the jurors--no doubts at all.To me that would be tying WA to the crime.

- Establish that WA did actually visit the crime scene. Interview an officer who saw her. Show police footage of her car. Doorbell footage of her car. (on this note: did she volunteer this information during her interview? How do prosecutors know this happened?)

- Establish how KM knew that the murder happened almost immediately after it occured. Get testimony for that. The only way a person that would have known almost immediately is if Wendi saw the crime scene.

Especially the second point would be almost certain... because if she did see a crime scene and was innocent she wouldn't have gone to lunch. I know it's easy to armchair quarterback or whatever...but I feel like they could have questioned KM more on the first point. I feel like there must of have been a reason they didn't (since she's not a good witness).

 

[amicuscurie]

I feel like there were two opportunities that were missed by the prosecution to make this case a slam dunk for the jurors--no doubts at all.To me that would be tying WA to the crime.

- Establish that WA did actually visit the crime scene. Interview an officer who saw her. Show police footage of her car. Doorbell footage of her car. (on this note: did she volunteer this information during her interview? How do prosecutors know this happened?)

- Establish how KM knew that the murder happened almost immediately after it occured. Get testimony for that. The only way a person that would have known almost immediately is if Wendi saw the crime scene.

Especially the second point would be almost certain... because if she did see a crime scene and was innocent she wouldn't have gone to lunch. I know it's easy to armchair quarterback or whatever...but I feel like they could have questioned KM more on the first point. I feel like there must of have been a reason they didn't (since she's not a good witness).

She mentioned pretty quickly at the police station that she had driven on that street and seen the caution tape, which she said she thought was a downed tree. They did have an officer on the stand who said he saw a car the same as the one she drove drive up to the tape and turn around. Cell tower records have her phone near that area at the time she would have been there.

 

[BearWatcher]

I think I heard GC put together a timeline that both WA and CA agreed to when they started dating JL and KB, respectively.When was it that CA talked to Wendi who then opted out of WA house purchase in Tally? These ‘relationships’ seemed to be started around the same time and conveniently stopped around the time of murder. Did anyone else pick up on that?