FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

[Knitpicker]

So, Charlie owned 2 homes - that one plus the Whale Harbor home?
Joel on STS visited the Whale Harbor home, also on a canal.
Did Charlie live in both?
The lady says that he was arrested in the Tortugas home, but I thought he lived at Whale Harbor because of those pics with June U.

Anybody know?

I thought the same thing.I’m pretty confused about that.

 

[Knitpicker]

Harvey and Donna own a Brickell condo,I believe. Also, you may see an address in a condo in MiAmi Beach for him, I believe this is a condo he was renting in s building near the Icon (but not at the Icon) at the time of the murder which Harvey and Donna would use as well.

It was said he had owned a condo in Aventura awhile back.Maybe he sold that. Law Belle Vie posted the two apartment complexes the A family owns and that was the first I had seen of them. Her last video.

 

[Zedzded]

Speaking hypothetically and not about any particular people related to this case, it is possible to move assets or place them in various trusts or in the names of other people/family members such that you may appear to be indigent on paper for purpose of qualifying for benefits or avoiding certain expenses or liabilities.

I can imagine that would have been a loophole closed many years ago. I guess you can still do that to some extent, but I'd imagine there would be an investigation if someone was obviously avoiding liabilities. If that wasn't the case, imagine the amount of naughtiness going on with divorcing couples. Suddenly Mr Millionaire's houses, boats, cars are all in his brothers names and he's now claiming benefits despite driving a Ferrari. And his ex has to pay him maintenance!

 

[Zedzded]

yeah was hoping Katie didn’t delete if in fact W called her w/ Whatsapp maybe saving it for some evidence in case?Also W could have had a burner phone. We haven't seen any WhatsApp evidence so far. GC also asked Wendi if Katie was with CHarlie when she called him. Do we know where Katie was at about 9:30 on July 18th? Imagine if she was with Charlie. As Jodi Arias said “My brain is scrambled” from all the details of the Case.
I think Katie left around that time to go home but maybe, she was there when W had the 18 minute call with Wendi the day of.

You'd think she had a burner phone. But for every smart thing they did, they did 5 completely moronic things. You would have thought they would have said, zero contact between KM, CA, DA, HA and WA on the day of the murder. Or minimal contact. Instead WA is having 18 minute conversations with her brother. I think even without the identification of the Prius, they could have solved the case by looking at the phone data and WA's actions on the day of the murder. There is a sudden spike in her calls/texts to DA/CA. Right before the murder, radio silence. They look at CA's phone data, lots og texts/calls between him and KM. They look at KM's phone data which points them to SG and LR who happened to be in Tallahassee on the day of the murder.

 

[amicuscurie]

I can imagine that would have been a loophole closed many years ago. I guess you can still do that to some extent, but I'd imagine there would be an investigation if someone was obviously avoiding liabilities. If that wasn't the case, imagine the amount of naughtiness going on with divorcing couples. Suddenly Mr Millionaire's houses, boats, cars are all in his brothers names and he's now claiming benefits despite driving a Ferrari. And his ex has to pay him maintenance!

Some loopholes are closing, but there still are quite a few. That exact thing you describe, or something very similar, has been known to happen in divorces. It’s more difficult to do in a divorce situation, and the opposing party and the judge can challenge it, and you can’t lie on a financial affidavit, but it does happen. Common legal advice for divorcing women (or men), in my experience, is to make copies of financial documents, joint accounts, etc., before filing, so they have all of the information before the other spouse may try something.

 

[IQuestion]

Speaking hypothetically and not about any particular people related to this case, it is possible to move assets or place them in various trusts or in the names of other people/family members such that you may appear to be indigent on paper for purpose of qualifying for benefits or avoiding certain expenses or liabilities.

Some people may have accountants and/or financial advisors who may advise them on how to do this, particularly if they have been anticipating a possible negative change in circumstance after which it might be advantageous to appear to have less money than they actually do.

The simple answer is yes.
INSOLVENT WORKSHEET:
insolvent immediately before the cancellation means: your liabilities exceed the FMV (fair market value) of your assets the day before the cancellation.
But this is probably more related to the discharge of indebtedness income on the Whale Harbor transaction.
IRS Form 982. The tax accountant/taxpayer would have gone to Part 1 and marked "e" to exclude the cancellation of debt on an owner's residence. Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007, which was later made permanent in 2017.
I don't know how it works in a court room, or for hiring a lawyer in a criminal case. (Am not a lawyer!) But basically, if you have (on paper) more debt than assets...then you are insolvent.
IDK...maybe CA is just saying he is now insolvent...especially if he transferred things out of his name and into the name of a relative or LLC's controlled by others. Just my 2 cents on "what might be happening."
If everything he owned was sold or transferred out of his name, I'm thinking he could now be insolvent.
Afterall, he is an adult and responsible for only his personal situation. If his family chooses not to pitch in on his defense bills, he could technically be eligible.
Hey, always open to opposing dialogue
PS...He hasn't been working for the last 2 years, had lots of legal bills, and still responsible for mortgages...so definately could be experiencing financial hardship. Or unable to access accounts in other countries?

 

[cottonweaver]

Harvey and Donna own a Brickell condo,I believe. Also, you may see an address in a condo in MiAmi Beach for him, I believe this is a condo he was renting in s building near the Icon (but not at the Icon) at the time of the murder which Harvey and Donna would use as well.

Yes I think Charlie is also currently listed for that- at the fastsearchpeople site

Agree on your past posts about the Continuum- a second condo residence available for Wendi and the boys at the time of the murder, as well as Coral Gables. Reference to that occurs during the trial but it got lost with all the references to IKon.

Not surprising considering we already knew how they move assets around, but while they are notorious for that, there's not a chance imo that Donna is about to claim she's suddenly become indigent and requires services of PDefenders.
Yes, it would be hilarious- but incredible- if tomorrow, it was revealed that Donna was attempting to be classed as indigent in Jan while also currently being repped by Marissel Descalzo and Daniel Rashbaum in Nov- Dec ( jail call lists and content). Bring it on

 

[clearskies1]

Many YouTube content producers such as Mentour “James” Lawyer have verified education, work experience, and expertise. Yet, they are not investigative journalists but rather creators of video “click baits”, working under crunch time, with limited attention to details.

Before 2008, each of the 5 districts of Florida’s “The Office of Criminal Conflict and Civil Regional Counsel” employed a mix of State employees and external (private) attorneys paid by taxpayers’ money to care for indigent criminals. From 2008 – onward, the State of Florida hired full time State employee lawyers for the Regional Counsel offices to drive costs down. These State employee lawyers are not taking private assignments. Both Ronald Thomas and Jenna Von See are on State payrolls.

I do not want to feed the quibblers but I have some curiosity for the skilled sleuths:
1. Why are Ronald Thomas and Jenna Von See visiting Donna Adelson?
2. Is Charles Adelson going to be represented by the Public Defenders office in the Leon County Court, creating a conflict of interests for Donna Adelson?

These questions are sensible because:
1. The Adelsons’ are reputed to be millionaires replete with cash, far from being indigents,
2. Charles Adelson just hired an expensive Tallahassee appellate lawyer to handle his appeal in the higher court.

I know I'm not directly answering your questions, but my understanding is that if any of the co-defendants -- including KM, SG and LR (as well as CA) -- are currently represented by the Public Defender's Office, then there would be a conflict of interest for that office to represent DA. Have no idea if Donna could somehow be deemed indigent and eligible for a court appointed lawyer.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes I think Charlie is also currently listed for that- at the fastsearchpeople site

Agree on your past posts about the Continuum- a second condo residence available for Wendi and the boys at the time of the murder, as well as Coral Gables. Reference to that occurs during the trial but it got lost with all the references to IKon.

Not surprising considering we already knew how they move assets around, but while they are notorious for that, there's not a chance imo that Donna is about to claim she's suddenly become indigent and requires services of PDefenders.
Yes, it would be hilarious- but incredible- if tomorrow, it was revealed that Donna was attempting to be classed as indigent in Jan while also currently being repped by Marissel Descalzo and Daniel Rashbaum in Nov- Dec ( jail call lists and content). Bring it on

I just think they had better get that Continuum thing nailed down, because in my opinion the text Wendi sent before the murder asking if Dan would be home is very important, and the evidence seems to me to suggest it was sent while she was in South Beach, from a cell tower there.

In my opinion it would be weird for them to be claiming to be indigent, but I personally can think of no other explanation for them having met with these attorneys from a state agency for indigent defendants. It’s possible they were just shopping around, but still weird. These are people who are alleged to have skirted the law before (like the bump call where Charlie seems to be bragging about getting away with a ticket, or where he seems to be telling Donna to fudge a car registration, or Donna and Harvey buying a one-way ticket to Vietnam and attempting to flee), so they may not necessarily think they way you or I would about their likelihood of success or the absurdity of such a plan.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I think you can tell which one of the two Katie trials it is from the hair.

Humidity was particularly bad and affecting her hair during one of those trials!

As a funny side note, when I first started dating my husband many moons ago - he picked me up one evening when I was having a particularly bad hair day (80’s hair ..so just imagine). He said to me “Wow…the humidity really affects your hair!” I have NEVER forgotten he said that almost 40 years later! LOL

 

[amicuscurie]

Humidity was particularly bad and affecting her hair during one of those trials!

As a funny side note, when I first started dating my husband many moons ago - he picked me up one evening when I was having a particularly bad hair day (80’s hair ..so just imagine). He said to me “Wow…the humidity really affects your hair!” I have NEVER forgotten he said that almost 40 years later! LOL

In my opinion it wasn’t just the humidity, it might have been stress related to Charlie’s arrest, which I think happened right before Katie’s second trial. But I don’t know.

 

[IQuestion]

Wendi is everywhere (if you look) but I never got the point of her speech, especially the part about "focusing on what unites us, not what divides us"...go figure.

 

[cottonweaver]

That ' beat poem' !!

A scene even more cringe than Kendall trying to rap for his dad but less catchy ( Succession season 2)

anyway - Donna's case management has been rescheduled.



electrical storm brings down trees? Just kidding - think it's a tornado alert

https://twitter.com/x/status/1744432672405959116

 

[amicuscurie]

Wendi is everywhere (if you look) but I never got the point of her speech, especially the part about "focusing on what unites us, not what divides us"...go figure.

When the guy who has to follow her feels like he has to make a joke about how he is also “the lovely and talented.”

 

[Cryptic]

I can imagine that would have been a loophole closed many years ago. I guess you can still do that to some extent, but I'd imagine there would be an investigation if someone was obviously avoiding liabilities.

In regards to the ability to transfer assets to avoid liabilities, I have a vague idea that the answer is...... complicated and getting more so:

- Transferring assets after they are under threat of being forfeited is fraudulent transfer. These transfers can be voided by the Court and the property seized (at least on paper).

- But....my general understanding is that Courts simply dont actively pursue fraudulent transfer cases.

Courts will order seizures. But plaintiffs must find the property on their own, actively prove that "X" owned it, prove that it was fraudulently transferred and prove it is not otherwise exempt property.

-And....some states have very strong "asset protections trusts" that can make actually seizing assets very difficult, even if fraudulent transfer can be shown.

Its been said that Nevada's laws make it de facto impossible to seize any property that has been held in certain trusts for longer than just 2 short years. The property can be accounts or physical property, It just needs to be in Nevada.

 

[Gypsy Road]

That ' beat poem' !!

A scene even more cringe than Kendall trying to rap for his dad but less catchy ( Succession season 2)

anyway - Donna's case management has been rescheduled.



electrical storm brings down trees? Just kidding - think it's a tornado alert

https://twitter.com/x/status/1744432672405959116

Yes!! We’ve have some potentially extremely bad weather moving through the panhandle. Level 3 alert. Schools have been closed. Prolly offices too!

 

[IQuestion]

When the guy who has to follow her feels like he has to make a joke about how he is also “the lovely and talented.”

I just can't get one past ya' can I? @amiscurie What was the poor guy supposed to say after that? Btw, he didn't reciprocate. LOL.

 

[apeXperience]

Indeed, somethings major are going on in Donna Adelson’s case:

1. There is a motion to change attorney. Is Donna Adelson getting a local Tallahassee representation, may be Robert A. Morris or Thomas or Von See? Is her unnecessarily combative and expensive Miami attorney Marissel Descalzo to be replaced, or just getting local help?

2. There are 2 new affidavit of search warrants (edited to include) "for 2 macbook pro with distinct S/N", as alerted by @amicuscurie below. (thanks.)

3. The docket has NOT changed the date of the case management. Perhaps, the new attorney(s) would want more time to digest the large "discovery items" already disclosed. Hence, a new case management date is likely forthcoming.

 

[amicuscurie]

Indeed, somethings major are going on in Donna Adelson’s case:

1. There is a motion to change attorney. Is Donna Adelson getting a local Tallahassee representation, may be Robert A. Morris or Thomas or Von See? Is her unnecessarily combative and expensive Miami attorney Marissel Descalzo to be replaced, or just getting local help?

2. There are 2 new affidavit of search warrants. Perhaps, the State just renew the older ones to be able to continue investigating Harvey Adelson’s ipad and iphone?

3. The docket has NOT changed the date of the case management.

The new warrants appear to be for a laptop or laptops. They state that 2 laptops were seized in a search of Harvey and Donna’s Apt. after Donna’s arrest. You will recall that the prior warrants were for 2 cellphones and an iPad, which were also taken in that search.

 

[clearskies1]

Here are the two affidavits and signed search warrants for two MacBook Pros, both seized from Harvey Adelson. The motion for substitution of counsel is not yet available online.