FL FL - GERARD SCHAEFER -- How Many Victims?

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Still_Seek_Answers, forgive me if I overlooked this info somewhere- but what personal vehicles did Schaefer have access to, at the time your sister was abducted?

ETA: I am looking at parking areas near waterways- and vehicles, vessels, marinas that may have had the same registration addresses at the time.

Wow what a great question, and one I don't think I have ever been asked. I am not sure I know....so I will research this then post it. I remember Susan Place and Georgia Jessup were linked to him by his license tag number, the one girls mother had written it down when he picked them up.....so I'll hit my books and the internet and see what I can find. Thank you for your help...BTW....it is very appreciated.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Deputy Sheriff Gerard Schaefer stopped in his police cruiser

(Leah Hainline) She never came back, and her car was later found in a Fort Lauderdale ( but no mention of what kind of car....)
Hallock’s car found in a nearby parking lot a few days later. (Again no mention of the kind of car....)
Susan Place’s mother Lucille had been suspicious and had written down the license number of Shepherd’s blue Datsun.

THE DISORGANIZED/ORGANIZED SERIAL KILLER TYPOLOGY ... does not usually keep a hiding place ... drives a clunky car or pickup truck ..... Gerard Schaefer, another organized type, donated his trophies to Goodwill...


Wow isn't that amazing....other than the Blue Datsun, and his police cruiser,I see no mention of a car anywhere....I remember a dark colored car........and I am sorry but I can't seem to find anything else listed about his cars. Since two of his earliest victims cars were found removed from their homes, I would guess he used their car for body disposal......

I was reading Whoever Fights Monsters earlier,and I was amazed to see Schaefer show so many traits of an organized killer.yet also show so many traits of a disorganized killer. No wonder the professional's wanted to study his mind, this man was a master of insanity.....

But back to your question.....Blue Datsun and police cruiser are all I see.....and plz lemme know how mapping out the water ways turns out....

 

[Oriah]

Will do- am trying to look at the waterway history right now.

I am also really wondering about what vehicle he may have picked your sister up in (I think- if this is the case- he must have used a personal vehicle?) Do you remember if the dark car was a car with a back seat? Or a pickup without back seats- just the two front? Or do you remember if it had bucket seats, or a bench seat specifically? Do you remember if it seemed kind of short- or kind of sporty and cool and smallish back then?

Sorry for so many questions! We have some members here that are incredible in their knowledge of vehicles... TIA.

 

[believe09]

Gerard Schaefer, another organized type, donated his trophies to Goodwill...

how does anyone know he donated his trophies to good will? Is this referring to trophies from his crimes?

 

[believe09]

From your post, Still-I think this is a link to the source you are using here?

Organized/Disorganized Serial Killer

Here is a quote from the above regarding organized/disorganized typology-

the typology has an inherent bias in favor of disorganized for crimes motivated by hate, anger, or domestic strife

The way I am reading this is that if someone like Schaefer is killing women because of hate and anger, his crimes might *appear* to be disorganized.

He doesnt strike me as one, fwiw, but I am totally a layperson. I spoke with a detective who worked some of the Schaefer cases and they knew he was messing with them. They absolutely knew that his stories had misleading information in them intentionally so that LE and families would be thrown off track. That whole cat playing with a mouse thing.

It is a wonder he wasnt killed in an interview room, and kudos to LE for not stooping to him and his level.

See, I never would have thought that he dumped his victims at sea. I figured him for someone who carried out most if not all of these crimes (including disposal) on land. JMO.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Will do- am trying to look at the waterway history right now.

I am also really wondering about what vehicle he may have picked your sister up in (I think- if this is the case- he must have used a personal vehicle?) Do you remember if the dark car was a car with a back seat? Or a pickup without back seats- just the two front? Or do you remember if it had bucket seats, or a bench seat specifically? Do you remember if it seemed kind of short- or kind of sporty and cool and smallish back then?

Sorry for so many questions! We have some members here that are incredible in their knowledge of vehicles... TIA.

I remember a small dark colored car, with 2 doors and a backseat. I remember the car was smaller than the car my dad drove...he was always a Buick man, so I am guessing that is what we had then....

I disagree on him using his personal car to pick up my sister.....I do not think she would have gotten into his personal car...I say that because it would have gone against everything we were taught, "young ladies" did not spend time alone with males, they always had to have either a parent or older sibling...besides, even though the walk to school was kinda long, (we walked much further in WV, we walked 4 miles to the bus here, in all weather types) the weather was pleasant, and it gave her time to connect up with friends and share some girl talk....you remember that age, what boy likes who, what girls like who.....so I would have to say he got her in his police vehicle....

But back to his car, it was black, or close to it, 2 door, bucket seats...short, not sporty at all, and I did not find it col, I thought it looked kinda like a junkt
, my oldest brother had just bought a FIAT spider.....to me that was cool....Schaefers car had odd tail lights.....dang I hope that helps...it is about all I recall.....I was never actually in his car, but I can remember it was darkish inside too...not black, maybe a charcoal?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

From your post, Still-I think this is a link to the source you are using here?

Organized/Disorganized Serial Killer

Here is a quote from the above regarding organized/disorganized typology-



The way I am reading this is that if someone like Schaefer is killing women because of hate and anger, his crimes might *appear* to be disorganized.

He doesnt strike me as one, fwiw, but I am totally a layperson. I spoke with a detective who worked some of the Schaefer cases and they knew he was messing with them. They absolutely knew that his stories had misleading information in them intentionally so that LE and families would be thrown off track. That whole cat playing with a mouse thing.

It is a wonder he wasnt killed in an interview room, and kudos to LE for not stooping to him and his level.

See, I never would have thought that he dumped his victims at sea. I figured him for someone who carried out most if not all of these crimes (including disposal) on land. JMO.

Yes, that is the link I was using, and the link description on Google states...

Understanding Types of Serial Killers
www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04.htm
Sep 15, 2011 – THE DISORGANIZED/ORGANIZED SERIAL KILLER TYPOLOGY ..... Gerard Schaefer, another organized type, donated his trophies to Goodwill ...


Which sure as heck makes no sense to me either.
Surely he did not give away his trophies....and as a information source I was kind of disappointed.
And I would have to agree with you, he was apparently organized enough to carry rope, something to gag them with, lets just say his killer stuff, with him, so I think it was the hate and anger he felt as he killed them that made him become disorganized.... the exception being the Trotter /Wells case ...perhaps he was scared to not pick them up that morning, maybe he was scared they'd be gone by evening, but picking two girls up, taking them to the woods and tying them up....then leaving them to go answer a radio call, was very much below his normal....which is shown by them escaping....maybe he became overconfident, or perhaps a hand from above said ENOUGH and made the escape possible.....

I agree the cops who interviewed him, with it clicking together then how many girls had recently vanished...they deserve a reward for letting him out of that room alive.It had to take every bit of self control in them to not handle it themselves, and I, like you applaud them for not lowering themselves to his level. I have always felt his stories are kind of a half and half thing. While he enjoys lying to make each crime appear worst than the last, he places enough truth in them for each story to belong to a different girl. I think that was kind of his final touch of pleasure...to know he could remember a certain girl by the clues he left in each story, but nobody else could. After giving it some thought I agree....he would not have actually dumped bodies at sea....he would never give a real clue like that away, it was just another part of his sick game. He put the bodies places that he could go to...and he laughed and felt smug cause only he had that key part of the puzzle.To him that was the final victory. The bodies that have been recovered were in places that back then nobody would have thought of developing...but as the state grew, some were found. Nobody knows what tomorrow holds...so someday our answer will come. The right unidentified girl will be there, found in some place no girl should be, then the nightmare will end for us, and it will be replaced by a sense of peace, for at last Debbie will be home. I have always wished I could speak to any of the detectives who questioned him. However right now I guess that is not to be, not until I get freed from this machine.
I can understand why they so wanted to study him, even for a serial killer, he was someone with a mind that worked very unusually.

 

[Oriah]

From your post, Still-I think this is a link to the source you are using here?

Organized/Disorganized Serial Killer

Here is a quote from the above regarding organized/disorganized typology-



The way I am reading this is that if someone like Schaefer is killing women because of hate and anger, his crimes might *appear* to be disorganized.

He doesnt strike me as one, fwiw, but I am totally a layperson. I spoke with a detective who worked some of the Schaefer cases and they knew he was messing with them. They absolutely knew that his stories had misleading information in them intentionally so that LE and families would be thrown off track. That whole cat playing with a mouse thing.

It is a wonder he wasnt killed in an interview room, and kudos to LE for not stooping to him and his level.

See, I never would have thought that he dumped his victims at sea. I figured him for someone who carried out most if not all of these crimes (including disposal) on land. JMO.

I'm sure he was messing with them.
And god bless LE for not, umm, well you said it best- stooping to that level. I don't know that I would have that strength.

Part of the reason why I thought of waterways is simply because in that part of FL- waterways might as well be land. Water is everywhere- whether an inlet, or a larger body of water such as the ICW or the ocean.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I said I doubt he dumped bodies at sea. I meant miles out to sea.....as far as marsh type lands, in one of his stories, he is speaking of torturing a girl.....and he comments.....the creatures of the night will be well fed tonight, and the day creatures will eat well tomorrow. I took that to mean alligators.....which is just my translation.....so I took that to mean swamp land type place..also he tied Trotter/Wells standing on tree stumps, with hanging nooses around their necks, so that if they slipped and fell, they would hang, but if they got loose alligators would get them.....unless somewhere I misunderstood the story....

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

The origins of these components have been arrived at inductively from the experiences of investigators who have conducted residential searches. There's also a tie-in to oral and anal stage development of psychosexuality. Both types of serial killers will take trophies and souvenirs (more so with the organized type) as part of the post-crime fantasy (reenactment) cycle. The difference is in what they do with these items, the different uses they make of them, and the difference in items taken (Ressler 1992). The disorganized type may remove a body part, lock of hair, or article of clothing, and have no discernible purpose other than experimentation and masturbation. The case of Jeffrey Dahmer illustrates a disorganized type offender who tried to keep large items in small boxes, the refrigerator, and elsewhere around the house. The organized type will take wallets, jewelry, class rings, photos, or drivers licenses primarily as acknowledgements of his accomplishments. These items will be given to the killer's relatives or friends, instead of being kept at home, because the purpose is when the relative or friend wears the item, only the killer will know the significance. The case of John Wayne Gacy illustrates an organized type who would dispose of trophies as he saw fit. Gerard Schaefer, another organized type, donated his trophies to Goodwill.


http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04.htm

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

how does anyone know he donated his trophies to good will? Is this referring to trophies from his crimes?

I'd love to have the answer that question as well....but the site makes that statement with no follow through.....

 

[katydid23]

I'd love to have the answer that question as well....but the site makes that statement with no follow through.....

I wonder if he have your sisters ring to the Goodwill. [ I hate to even think that, but at least he would not have it anymore.]

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I wonder if he have your sisters ring to the Goodwill. [ I hate to even think that, but at least he would not have it anymore.]

I was wondering the same thing, and I am kind of speechless.

 

[bessie]

Still_Seek_Answers, forgive me if I overlooked this info somewhere- but what personal vehicles did Schaefer have access to, at the time your sister was abducted?

ETA: I am looking at parking areas near waterways- and vehicles, vessels, marinas that may have had the same registration addresses at the time.

I don't know the model, Oriah, but he drove a blue Datsun.

On January 5, 1972 her husband and two-year-old daughter watched her climb into a blue Datsun sedan, a strange man at the wheel, and vanish from their lives forever. In 1973, the search of Doris Schaefer’s home revealed an address book containing the name, address and phone number of Belinda’s husband. Days later, he identified Schaefer’s blue Datsun as the car that took Belinda [Hutchens] on her last ride. No other trace of her was found, no charges were ever filed

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/5.html

Two months after his arrest for the Trotter-Wells assault, on September 27, two more girls—17-year-old Susan Place and 16-year-old Georgia Jessup—had vanished from Fort Lauderdale. Susan’s parents said the girls were last seen at her house, leaving with an older man who said his name was Jerry Shepherd on their way to play guitar at a nearby beach. They never returned. Susan Place’s mother Lucille had been suspicious and had written down the license number of Shepherd’s [sic] blue Datsun. Unfortunately, she copied the tag’s prefix as “4” (Pinellas County) instead of “42” (Martin), and six months passed before she realized her mistake. A new trace led her to Schaefer. On March 25, 1973, she arrived at the Martin County jail carrying a photo of her daughter. But Schaefer denied ever seeing the girls.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/2.html

ETA: I posted too fast. My apologies to SSA. I see she's already answered the question.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I don't know the model, Oriah, but he drove a blue Datsun.

On January 5, 1972 her husband and two-year-old daughter watched her climb into a blue Datsun sedan, a strange man at the wheel, and vanish from their lives forever. In 1973, the search of Doris Schaefer’s home revealed an address book containing the name, address and phone number of Belinda’s husband. Days later, he identified Schaefer’s blue Datsun as the car that took Belinda [Hutchens] on her last ride. No other trace of her was found, no charges were ever filed

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/5.html

Two months after his arrest for the Trotter-Wells assault, on September 27, two more girls—17-year-old Susan Place and 16-year-old Georgia Jessup—had vanished from Fort Lauderdale. Susan’s parents said the girls were last seen at her house, leaving with an older man who said his name was Jerry Shepherd on their way to play guitar at a nearby beach. They never returned. Susan Place’s mother Lucille had been suspicious and had written down the license number of Shepherd’s [sic] blue Datsun. Unfortunately, she copied the tag’s prefix as “4” (Pinellas County) instead of “42” (Martin), and six months passed before she realized her mistake. A new trace led her to Schaefer. On March 25, 1973, she arrived at the Martin County jail carrying a photo of her daughter. But Schaefer denied ever seeing the girls.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/gerard_schaefer/2.html

ETA: I posted too fast. My apologies to SSA. I see she's already answered the question.

No,No, No, Thank You very much Bessie. Any and All help is always truly appreciated!!! Plus you found more information than I came across, so it just helps to confirm that the car he was driving when my sister vanished, was most probably a dark blue Datsun. I never want anyone to think, or even to worry,that they might offend me in anyway by trying to help find answers. I have had this huge jumbled mess in front of me since I was 9, and to date it still has not unraveled. Plus I often have to answer questions based on the memory of a 9 year old, while that is a solid base, it is all to often a not sure base. I hope that makes sense.
Besides someone out there ,who may be reading something, or posting something they read somewhere, you might just give me the key to a piece of the puzzle we did not have, so please feel free to question or to help all you can.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid23
I wonder if he have your sisters ring to the Goodwill. [ I hate to even think that, but at least he would not have it anymore.]

I was wondering the same thing, and I am kind of speechless.

Sorry I could not better answer this last night, it kind of made me sick to my stomach. As much as it bothered me to think of Schaefer having my sisters ring,at least that gave us an answer, it gave us proof that answered the mystery of why she vanished so completely.

Katydid23, I so appreciate your empathy, and trust me, it does show in all your answers, especially this one, and I can sense your mixed emotions, which the same as mine, could not give a definitive answer. While on one side it would be wonderful if that vile man had given away the ring, just so he would not be able to ever touch anything of hers again,yet without it being found in the jewelry they found at his house, then he gets a final laugh, cause we have no answers. I mostly wanted you to know, I do feel your empathy,and we. do appreciate you

 

[helpthevictims]

Wow, You did an amazing job on that timeline. One thing that jumped out at me. Did he always abduct two girls at a time? Also I would suggest all the siblings have a DNA done privately of your own through a large reputable company so that your profiles are on record. That way atleast yours won't be lost and have to always be redone. Plus I think they can even store blood for many years (double check when you call) as a back up. Have you ever called the psychic? I can sense your pain and frustration but also your determination. Your family is amazing!!!! Deborah would be so proud of all of you. I am sure your mother looks down upon you all and beams with pride and love. I agree about the dates of your moms passing and his, very wierd, hmm. My prayers are with you guys and I too will see what research I can come up with. May our loved ones lives have never been in vain. God Bless.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Wow, You did an amazing job on that timeline. One thing that jumped out at me. Did he always abduct two girls at a time? Also I would suggest all the siblings have a DNA done privately of your own through a large reputable company so that your profiles are on record. That way atleast yours won't be lost and have to always be redone. Plus I think they can even store blood for many years (double check when you call) as a back up. Have you ever called the psychic? I can sense your pain and frustration but also your determination. Your family is amazing!!!! Deborah would be so proud of all of you. I am sure your mother looks down upon you all and beams with pride and love. I agree about the dates of your moms passing and his, very wierd, hmm. My prayers are with you guys and I too will see what research I can come up with. May our loved ones lives have never been in vain. God Bless.

Thank You very much, all help is always appreciated!!! Bessie gets full credit for the actual timeline, she did the research and posted it for me, and it came out the same as the ones we have done over the years. We have found our DNA profiles, and they are in CODIS....thank heavens....but that is a wonderful idea, and I will mention it to my brother. My youngest sister is Psychic determined...I wanted to search for a non-insulting term....not judging so pleaseeee no nasty messages....LOL...the first one she consulted was in NY..I can't remember the name, but they are a community, that travels and spends summers in NY...we can guess why no winters there...and several others since then.
I do agree, I have a very amazing kind of family,but the cost was to high.After losing Debbie, we all just kept watch out for each other, and we still do......and we search....we will bring her home......
Thank You and God Bless...you have a candle burning to light the way.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Well Sis, it is a new day. Who knows what this day may bring us? Perhaps this will be the day, but don't worry, for if it is not, we won't give up. We are so sorry for what that monster did to you.We wish we had been older, for then perhaps we could have saved you. But truth be known, we were just as powerless as you, for we did not know people like him existed either. We miss you and we think of all the what if's? Anyway sis I wanted to make sure you know, how very much you are loved and missed. This always makes me think of you, so I posted it here for you.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TptM8CqrIdU"]Who You'd Be Today Kenny Chesney Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Lyndon]

Hi! First of all i'd like to say how deeply moved I am by your families terrible tragedy, and how humbled I am by your courage.
I'm new to this forum, but have read this thread and am just heartbroken by your plight. As a father to be i can only imagine what it's like to loose someone so young....My heart goes out to you.
I don't know if this could be of any help to you, but yesterday i was reading more about the case and in a page about Schaefer,

http://m.tcpalm.com/comments/list/news/stories/190665/0/

someone (not the author of the article) commented this:

"I also remember this - I was a young girl and it was a big deal then. My friend had an older sister who worked at The Crow's Nest and he pursued her...with no avail. He even went to her home and tried to get her to go on a date with him.
When I was in high school we learned more about him in my criminology class, taught by Mrs. McKinney who lived across the street from Schaefer and had acquired a diary he had kept on the murders."

I don't know if Mrs Mckinny" really had Schaefers diary, but it sounds interesting. I hope this can be of some use to you.
Best wishes
Lyndon