FL- Girl 12, found dead at abandoned cement plant

[FrayedKnot]

And not educating her is going to help the situation how exactly? Is there no alternative school?


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To be fair, I think that is standard in most public schools. If a child presents a threat to other students (and in this case, it would appear criminally so) they forfeit their right to attend school.

Shoot, in some public schools, (magnet, charter) a child can be expelled for much less than bullying another student to death. Getting x amount of detentions, bringing a contraband item to school, etc.....

JMO.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I agree there should he harsher penalties for bullying. Bullying is unacceptable.

Those girls have no control over other people's behavior, only their own. That's what they should be punished for. Their punishment should be equal to the punishment other bullies receive.
They're being unfairly judged because their target killed herself. I'm certain other children are on the identical receiving end of this type of bullying and they don't kill themselves.
That isn't their fault.



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All I can say, Linda, is that if the girls who are currently snubbing my DD, causing her to sob in her bed every night, kept it up to the point that my DD took her own life, then IMO, those nasty little bullies are responsible for my child's death. I think some kinds of broken can't be fixed.

Those girls in Rebecca's case are beyond help. They are remorseless, vicious people. I am sorry for whatever made them that way, but they cannot be among other people, If they are given freedom, someone else will be hurt. I truly believe that.

My DD is only slightly younger than Rebecca. . And every time she cries, I worry that she will do the very same thing.

 

[FrayedKnot]

"They think it was suicide, let's hope it stays that way" What the hell..... :waitasec: Did they push her?

Have you read "Reconstructing Amelia"? Fiction book, and very, very good. But this case gives me chills over how alike are truth and fiction.

 

[Linda7NJ]

All I can say, Linda, is that if the girls who are currently snubbing my DD, causing her to sob in her bed every night, kept it up to the point that my DD took her own life, then IMO, those nasty little bullies are responsible for my child's death. I think some kinds of broken can't be fixed.

Those girls in Rebecca's case are beyond help. They are remorseless, vicious people. I am sorry for whatever made them that way, but they cannot be among other people, If they are given freedom, someone else will be hurt. I truly believe that.

My DD is only slightly younger than Rebecca. . And every time she cries, I worry that she will do the very same thing.

Frayed, ya know I love ya!
But ultimately it's your job to protect her. do whatever it takes. You can not count on the school or the other kids parents. You need to look after yours and protect her if she can not physically do it herself. You need to remove her. I couldn't, in good conscience, send my kid off to school everyday knowing he would be bullied. I'd have to do whatever it took to ensure my kid wouldn't be a doormat/ victim for anyone. Some kids are too sweet for their own good, some are sensitive, some can't be assertive... Then that's when a parent must do whatever it takes.

I agree that some kids are broken beyond repair. I've haven't read anything outside what is considered "normal" teen behavior. They are typical mean girls. Every school has them. The teachers & school know who they are. some teachers even encourage it.


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[seattlechiquita]

Have you read "Reconstructing Amelia"? Fiction book, and very, very good. But this case gives me chills over how alike are truth and fiction.

I haven't . Worth a trip to the library?

 

[LinasK]

I agree there should he harsher penalties for bullying. Bullying is unacceptable.

Those girls have no control over other people's behavior, only their own. That's what they should be punished for. Their punishment should be equal to the punishment other bullies receive.
They're being unfairly judged because their target killed herself. I'm certain other children are on the identical receiving end of this type of bullying and they don't kill themselves.
That isn't their fault.



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Linda, on this I disagree with you. I don't feel these bullies are being unfairly judged by anybody. Noone is calling for their deaths. Yes other kids are bullied and don't commit suicide, but they pushed Rebecca over the edge. Some people are susceptible to it, just like Phoebe Prince, and the gay college kid whose roommate videotaped him (Tyler Clementi?). I was bullied in elementary school for 3 straight years and didn't kill myself, but if not for them Rebecca might well still be alive. It was their fault because their bullying pushed her over the edge. And GS has zero remorse!

 

[FrayedKnot]

I haven't . Worth a trip to the library?

IMO, yes. But then, I have strange, non-specific taste in books. I enjoy well-written work from most any genre. This one in particular is an unraveled mystery and also a heartbreaking account.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Frayed, ya know I love ya!
But ultimately it's your job to protect her. do whatever it takes. You can not count on the school or the other kids parents. You need to look after yours and protect her if she can not physically do it herself. You need to remove her. I couldn't, in good conscience, send my kid off to school everyday knowing he would be bullied. I'd have to do whatever it took to ensure my kid wouldn't be a doormat/ victim for anyone. Some kids are too sweet for their own good, some are sensitive, some can't be assertive... Then that's when a parent must do whatever it takes.

I agree that some kids are broken beyond repair. I've haven't read anything outside what is considered "normal" teen behavior. They are typical mean girls. Every school has them. The teachers & school know who they are. some teachers even encourage it.


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I always respect your opinion even if I don't agree.

I especially give you credit for your willingness to understand the reasons why a young person may become a bully.

As for protecting one's own: I want to teach my daughter to live in this world, not to avoid it. Trust me, if I were following my HEART and not my head, I would hide her away in a velvet box forever so that she never feels hurt. But I know that my job as her mom is to nudge her out of the nest, to spread her own wings, to fly. And as painful as it is to watch her crash a few times, that's how it's got to be. .

I think you are an amazing mom, and I hope I am one, too. We just are working it from a different angle and I believe that the love we put into it is what really matters in the end.

 

[Sincerely]

Personally, I believe the word "bullying" is being used incorrectly...what these girls did was beyond "bullying" and should be held accountable. I think the soft approach has not stopped this kind of behavior in the past and maybe just maybe the tougher approach will save a child's life...I'm all for it. Especially in this case, and after what I read. Yes, it will be hard for them in the future...but we have a very forgiving society. If they grow up and show remorse...and give back...society will accept them. I already show remorse for Katelyn (? spelling)...I believe she is remorseful. And to protect your own...Wow...just wow. All of the people should just protect your own. I wonder how the world would work...if we all lived by that? My understanding is the mom did step in and do her part...that is what I know so far...she went to the school...she went to LE...she took her out of school...she went to the hospital...she used involuntary committment...she utilized a psychiatrist...therapist...counseling...she took away her phone...and facebook...being a 12 year old...not of an adult mind...of course...she found a way around all of the mom's interventions...mom thought she was better...starting giving things back...not facebook, of course...because that is where mom thought the cyberattacks could start back...there should be absolutely NO excuses for these girls...it is never okay to do this...NEVER! Some can take and make it through this...some cannot. We have lost three kids here in Lakeland in ONE month to suicide...ALL are from bullying...Rebecca is from more than bullying! That is why these girls faces are plastered nationwide and not the bullies of the other cases.

 

[Elley Mae]

Personally, I believe the word "bullying" is being used incorrectly...what these girls did was beyond "bullying" and should be held accountable. I think the soft approach has not stopped this kind of behavior in the past and maybe just maybe the tougher approach will save a child's life...I'm all for it. Especially in this case, and after what I read. Yes, it will be hard for them in the future...but we have a very forgiving society. If they grow up and show remorse...and give back...society will accept them. I already show remorse for Katelyn (? spelling)...I believe she is remorseful. And to protect your own...Wow...just wow. All of the people should just protect your own. I wonder how the world would work...if we all lived by that? My understanding is the mom did step in and do her part...that is what I know so far...she went to the school...she went to LE...she took her out of school...she went to the hospital...she used involuntary committment...she utilized a psychiatrist...therapist...counseling...she took away her phone...and facebook...being a 12 year old...not of an adult mind...of course...she found a way around all of the mom's interventions...mom thought she was better...starting giving things back...not facebook, of course...because that is where mom thought the cyberattacks could start back...there should be absolutely NO excuses for these girls...it is never okay to do this...NEVER! Some can take and make it through this...some cannot. We have lost three kids here in Lakeland in ONE month to suicide...ALL are from bullying...Rebecca is from more than bullying! That is why these girls faces are plastered nationwide and not the bullies of the other cases.

bbm
Thank You, At times I am just amazed yet not. I just keep reminding myself that some are cut out to be defense attorney's and some are not.

 

[AnaTeresa]

All I can say, Linda, is that if the girls who are currently snubbing my DD, causing her to sob in her bed every night, kept it up to the point that my DD took her own life, then IMO, those nasty little bullies are responsible for my child's death. I think some kinds of broken can't be fixed.

Those girls in Rebecca's case are beyond help. They are remorseless, vicious people. I am sorry for whatever made them that way, but they cannot be among other people, If they are given freedom, someone else will be hurt. I truly believe that.

My DD is only slightly younger than Rebecca. . And every time she cries, I worry that she will do the very same thing.

BBM. But the thing is, they are juveniles. They will be among other people. Which is why the juvenile justice system focuses on punishment and rehabilitation, because juveniles are released back into society. What I, and I think some other posters, are trying to point out is that if the punishment is excessive, then all that will happen is make these girls worse.

It's not an excuse to understand why someone bullies. Understanding is not excusing or mitigating. It helps tailor punishment and rehabilitation. If a child bullies because of an abusive home situation, that has to be handled differently than a child who bullies because of a mental health issue, or because the child is a sociopath.

Whether we like it or not, these children are going to grow up, become adults, and engage in society. How we handle this situation now can easily dictate how those later interactions will go. Many juveniles can be rehabilitated, even from terrible - I've seen it myself. Personally, I'd much rather punishment and therapy/rehabilitation that's tailored to the child, acknowledging what has caused the offense, so that when I have to meet a now-grown juvenile offender, I'm meeting him/her as a reformed adult, rather than someone ready to reoffend.

Bullies grow up. Some of the bullies I encountered as a kid have grown into good, caring adults. I have a hard time thinking of a child as worthless or irredeemable. I believe in the ability for any person, but particularly children who are still growing, to change, repent, and do good. Maybe that makes me a rose-colored glasses idealist, but I would hate for a child's life to be considered over and done, all for some bad choices made at the start of their lives.

ETA: I was bullied as a kid, around the same age as your daughter, FrayedKnot. I cried a lot, and it seemed like it would never get better - but it does. Keep on being a supportive mom and that will help so much.

 

[HMSHood]

BBM. But the thing is, they are juveniles. They will be among other people. Which is why the juvenile justice system focuses on punishment and rehabilitation, because juveniles are released back into society. What I, and I think some other posters, are trying to point out is that if the punishment is excessive, then all that will happen is make these girls worse.

It's not an excuse to understand why someone bullies. Understanding is not excusing or mitigating. It helps tailor punishment and rehabilitation. If a child bullies because of an abusive home situation, that has to be handled differently than a child who bullies because of a mental health issue, or because the child is a sociopath.

Whether we like it or not, these children are going to grow up, become adults, and engage in society. How we handle this situation now can easily dictate how those later interactions will go. Many juveniles can be rehabilitated, even from terrible - I've seen it myself. Personally, I'd much rather punishment and therapy/rehabilitation that's tailored to the child, acknowledging what has caused the offense, so that when I have to meet a now-grown juvenile offender, I'm meeting him/her as a reformed adult, rather than someone ready to reoffend.

Bullies grow up. Some of the bullies I encountered as a kid have grown into good, caring adults. I have a hard time thinking of a child as worthless or irredeemable. I believe in the ability for any person, but particularly children who are still growing, to change, repent, and do good. Maybe that makes me a rose-colored glasses idealist, but I would hate for a child's life to be considered over and done, all for some bad choices made at the start of their lives.

ETA: I was bullied as a kid, around the same age as your daughter, FrayedKnot. I cried a lot, and it seemed like it would never get better - but it does. Keep on being a supportive mom and that will help so much.

Some people are just irremediable.

 

[coco puff]

I agree there should he harsher penalties for bullying. Bullying is unacceptable.

Those girls have no control over other people's behavior, only their own. That's what they should be punished for. Their punishment should be equal to the punishment other bullies receive.
They're being unfairly judged because their target killed herself. I'm certain other children are on the identical receiving end of this type of bullying and they don't kill themselves.
That isn't their fault.


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Maybe some bullying is normal BUT typing the words "yes I bullied her and she is dead IDGAF" IS NOT NORMAL! There was no remorse from the bully (that obviously knows she pushed her into it). She gets no free pass from me.

 

[seattlechiquita]

maybe some bullying is normal but typing the words "yes i bullied her and she is dead idgaf" is not normal! There was no remorse from the bully (that obviously knows she pushed her into it). She gets no free pass from me.

word.

 

[lillygator]

And not educating her is going to help the situation how exactly? Is there no alternative school?


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I can't believe I'm agreeing with Baez, but I do - the mugshots should never have been shown to the media. I realize that different states do things differently, but in Ohio you don't see juvenile mug shots as often*, unless they are being charged as adults. Putting this information out for public purview, especially in our internet age where nothing ever disappears, completely moots the process of sealing juvenile records.

The whole point of the juvenile system is rehabilitation in conjunction with punishment. Where's the rehabilitation in this? What is to be gained by splashing these girls' information and faces all over the internet? How are they supposed to become productive members of society after this?

*ETA: juvenile mug shots are, I believe, considered public record in Ohio, but most of the local stations I see refrain from showing the mug shots unless the juvenile is being charged as an adult. This might just be local ethical practice, but I'm in favor of it, for the most part.

Baez is a tool and is only doing this for the publicity.

Those girls DESERVE everything they are getting and more IMO. I don't believe the will get any time or anything but hopefullythey will be shunned and go somewhere else.

I am happy their photos are posted all over so people can see what horrible horrible people they are and am thankful for Grady to have the backbone to do so. They make me SICK and if I was that mother I would be much more vocal and be pushing for graver punishment.

alternate education? Heck no, that should be on the parents to have to pay for and provide, not my tax dollars. Also, it should not be up to the police, courts or the rest of us to make sure they become product members of society. Where is their PERSONAL responsibilty?

 

[HMSHood]

Baez is a tool and is only doing this for the publicity.

Those girls DESERVE everything they are getting and more IMO. I don't believe the will get any time or anything but hopefullythey will be shunned and go somewhere else.

I am happy their photos are posted all over so people can see what horrible horrible people they are and am thankful for Grady to have the backbone to do so. They make me SICK and if I was that mother I would be much more vocal and be pushing for graver punishment.

alternate education? Heck no, that should be on the parents to have to pay for and provide, not my tax dollars. Also, it should not be up to the police, courts or the rest of us to make sure they become product members of society. Where is their PERSONAL responsibilty?

Exactly. We plaster photos of bullies like we do with serial killers, child abusers, rampage killers, and terrorists. I do not see that any differently with these bullies.

Some people are just lost causes. It is very naive to think one can change every single screwed up person.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Exactly. We plaster photos of bullies like we do with serial killers, child abusers, rampage killers, and terrorists. I do not see that any differently with these bullies.

Some people are just lost causes. It is very naive to think one can change every single screwed up person.

I'm unwilling to lump the 12 yo, who seems to have been bullied herself and apparently sexually abused by her stepdad, in with serial killers and terrorists, nor write her off as a human being at twelve years of age. That's not justice.

 

[LinasK]

I'm unwilling to lump the 12 yo, who seems to have been bullied herself and apparently sexually abused by her stepdad, in with serial killers and terrorists, nor write her off as a human being at twelve years of age. That's not justice.

And how exactly do you think she's going to change now??? Aileen Wuornos who was a female serial killer was also sexually abused as a youngster. Katelyn is already very damaged. She's gone from victim to bully. I don't see her doing a turnaround...

 

[ArianeEmory]

And how exactly do you think she's going to change now??? Aileen Wuornos who was a female serial killer was also sexually abused as a youngster. Katelyn is already very damaged. She's gone from victim to bully. I don't see her doing a turnaround...

You do realize that, statistically, Aileen Wuornos is a huge outlier...right?

I know this case is pushing a lot of buttons, especially since Jose Baez stepped in, but I assume you are not seriously suggesting that any woman who has been sexually abused is irrevocably damaged.

(I hope people are not holding Baez and Casey Anthony against a 12 year old girl who was very obviously NOT the ringleader.)

 

[ohreally]

I am so concerned that with Baez on this case we will have another child suicide happen. I have seen Katelyn's youtube video and her text. Both times she basically says that she wishes she was dead. I agree with Grady, Baez needs to go to the prosecutors and try to deal with them with the truth. IMO Katelyn is remorseful what her role in Rebecca's death, but winning a case based on lies does not give Rebecca justice, nor does it help Katelyn. She is twelve years old and needs to be accountable for what she has done. She also needs help so that she can grow up to be a responsible adult. Grady has said that this is both girls first offense so they probably won't get any jail time. Other forms of punishment/rehabilitation are required counseling, community service, (speaking to groups about bulling) group homes for at risk kids.
From the comments Grady has made I don't think he or the state are looking to throw these two girls away, but they do want justice for Rebecca, and they should want it.
I feel for a twelve year old when the ones that are suppose to care about her the most are not doing what is in her best interest. How is she suppose to stand up to her parents and Baez and say that she wants to take responsibility for what she has done, and face her consequences? Who is there to truly advocate for her?
Baez has requested a tutor for her. Really!!!!!! In Florida we have what Florida Virtual School. She can take her junior high classes online, (it is free to Florida residence) and it does have a teacher for each course that can be called for assistants with the class. If he is making requests he should of requested a counselor/psychiatrist for her.
I do think that if Katelyn is allowed to take responsibility (if she truly wants to) she can become a productive adult. Someone in the legal system needs to step in and find out about her mental health, and if she was touched by her stepdad. Another teen suicide is not the answer.
As far as I am concerned Gatalupe (sp) can stay right where she is (juvenile detention) until she shows some sort of remorse, and realizes what she has done is wrong. I think if she were let out now she would find another victim to bully.