FL FL - Isabella Hellmann, 41, catamaran off Cay Sal, SE of the FL Keys, 14 May 2017 #1 *GUILTY*

[Hiandmighty]

As to #1 just a quick google search of catamaran flipping brings up quite a few stories, etc of catamarans flipping (cruisers). This is what I found...

"It all comes down to how you sail your catamaran.

If you sail it like a bat out of hell, you may actually be able to flip it over.

If you let your autopilot steer when you should be steering by hand, you may flip it over.

If you sail in severe conditions when you should be towing a drogue or lying to a parachute, you may flip it over".


Is this incorrect information?

Wind conditions would need to be perfect for him to get up to a speed that likely a cruising cat can't reach.

I believe you landed on an article about racing cats.

ETA: you said cruisers. Still, in order to sail "like a bat out of hell" environmental conditions would need to be agreeable...

Nothing has stated they were sailing in "severe conditions"...

Google capsize catamaran cruiser..

ETA: that is probably a performance cruising catamaran, which I don't believe they had.

"All cats are not the same
Cruising catamarans today roughly fall into two categories. Charter/cruising cats: Production catamarans built for the charter market typically feature integrated fixed keels, shoal-draft low-aspect rudders, high-windage flybridges, masts located well forward, shorter bows and heavier displacements. Even in ideal flat-water conditions, some of these boats will struggle to make significant progress to windward and typically sail close-hauled at 55-60 degree true wind angles (TWA). Heavy-weather strategies on these types of catamarans should focus on maintaining control and achieving a moderate speed without endangering boat or crew.

High-performance cruising cats: High-performance cruising catamarans typically have efficient daggerboards or centerboards, deeper rudders, less windage and less displacement. They can go to windward at a 45-50 degree TWA in nearly all conditions. A performance cruising catamaran can typically outsail even the best keelboats to windward. Given their light weight and ample sail plans, attention must be paid to sail selection to remain safe in all conditions. Strategies for managing storm conditions should focus on higher speeds, lower loads and balance."

http://www.sailmagazine.com/multihu...-weather-strategies-when-sailing-a-catamaran/

I believe he had a charter cat. Near impossible to flip because they don't go fast enough...

 

[LaneGirl]

Wind conditions would need to be perfect for him to get up to a speed that likely a cruising cat can't reach.

I believe you landed on an article about racing cats.

ETA: you said cruisers. Still, in order to sail "like a bat out of hell" environmental conditions would need to be agreeable...

Nothing has stated they were sailing in "severe conditions"...

Google capsize catamaran cruiser..

I do know that performance (from my reading) are easier to flip and that cruisers are much safer, but I am reading and seeing instances of catamarans flipping and the majority they say are "pilot error".

I would like to note that I'm not a boater, so this is all I'm reading. I defer to your expertise but I am seeing it happens although admittedly not often for cruisers.

 

[Hiandmighty]

We don't have a cat but we have researched them in depth because we thought about buying one.

No news article has mentioned winds, which is what they would have needed for him to maneuver and flip.

Cruising charter cats are considered super safe and comfortable.

Now, I don't know, maybe it is as simple as he brought a sub pump and purposely flooded the boat. I'll have to think on it and pick DH's brain on ways he could have caused the boat to take on water.

I tried to google videos to see more of the boat in the water but so far I have found nothing interesting or long enough...

I have to go cook dinner.... does anyone remember off hand what kind of cat is was: benteneau? Fountaine?

ETA: found it: 1986 Fountaine Pajot Orana 44

 

[LaneGirl]

We don't have a cat but we have researched them in depth because we thought about buying one.

No news article has mentioned winds, which is what they would have needed for him to maneuver and flip.

Cruising charter cats are considered super safe and comfortable.

Now, I don't know, maybe it is as simple as he brought a sub pump and purposely flooded the boat. I'll have to think on it and pick DH's brain on ways he could have caused the boat to take on water.

I tried to google videos to see more of the boat in the water but so far I have found nothing interesting or long enough...

I have to go cook dinner.... does anyone remember off hand what kind of cat is was: benteneau? Fountaine?

ETA: found it: 1986 Fountaine Pajot Orana 44

Actually funny you brought this up, this is actually one of the instances I saw for flipping a cruiser and one of the youtubes I watched of a 100 passenger cruiser flipping, because it took on water in one of the hulls.

I didn't mention it in my post above because it had 100 people on board which would effect ballast I would think making it easier to flip.

But off I go to google more.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Interesting. I brought my ipad to the kitchen lol.

I'm now questioning the accuracy of what boat he had as I am getting no hits on 1986 Fountaine Pajot Orana 44

Would you link the video you mentioned? I'd like to watch it.

 

[LaneGirl]

Interesting. I brought my ipad to the kitchen lol.

I'm now questioning the accuracy of what boat he had as I am getting no hits on 1986 Fountaine Pajot Orana 44

Would you link the video you mentioned? I'd like to watch it.

Here is the one with the 100 passengers. Also in youtube google cruiser catamaran capsizing and you will see more. You do have to pass the performance because they are mixed in.

[video=youtube;eEtCH_xbB4w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEtCH_xbB4w[/video]

 

[Hiandmighty]

Yeah, see, he would have had to flood the boat. DH is on his way home so this will make interesting dinner conversation...

I still think this could have happened at the point of impact.

 

[LaneGirl]

Yeah, see, he would have had to flood the boat. DH is on his way home so this will make interesting dinner conversation...

I still think this could have happened at the point of impact.

And for point of impact how big does this thing need to be to get a hull up and over? How fast does it need to be going to make it flip if it hit something?

Couldn't it also be possible (pardon the lack of boating terms) to stop the boat position it sideways so a wave could flip it?

So anyway I'm not sure where I lay on this. I think Lewis has made some odd comments, which a person in grief sure could do but I do think a person experienced with boats could figure out a way to flip it. Although I'm not ready to say that about him yet.

 

[GigTu]

If I remember correctly, Bennett only had a temporary passport, one that doesn't let him leave the country. Maybe that status has changed?

Also, lots of couples don't discuss their philosophies on raising kids, and once they have a baby it can get tumultuous working through the compromises. I see parents who don't agree all.the.time and sometimes they get pretty loud and downright disrespectful about it. However, they ultimately work through it.

But, if she had no intention of moving and he had no intention of moving.... they are at a standstill. I can see that as being a motive for something sinister. Having said that, I don't see how this guy could have capsized his catamaran by himself.

I just watched that video posted above about the big catamaran that capsized in "rough waters", and the water didn't look rough at all to me. If that's all it takes for a big one, how vulnerable is a little one out in deep seas with crazy currents? Scary!

 

[Hiandmighty]

So far dh is unimpressed with this as a possible murder. We are still talking it out.
*Cut the lines to the engine to let water in? bennett didn't know the locator beacon would have a dead battery.

*loosen the lines? Possibly

 

[GigTu]

About the tape on the home's door.... a woman did disappear at sea, so I think they absolutely need to examine everything to make sure there was no plot. I would want that for my loved one. It's smart.

Bennet himself stated that he knew he would be looked at and he was fine with it. He expects it. I don't know how far they will probe and what that entails, but I think if he denies taking a lie detector test I might have some doubts about him. Otherwise, right now it's not looking like more than a tragic accident.

 

[Hiandmighty]

That water in the video wasnt rough at all. That boat had a leak,

 

[LaneGirl]

That water in the video wasnt rough at all. That boat had a leak,

And couldn't one flood a hull and do the same thing?

 

[Hiandmighty]

Yes, I think so. That is why I'm trying to figure out how he flooded the boat, but in a way that no one would figure it out.

 

[bears10]

I think it is clear there was bad blood between Bennett and her family prior to the disappearance. Considering how close Isabella was with her family, it makes me wonder if she was confiding in one or more of her sisters that the marriage was bad. The sister's first reaction was that of him killing her which speaks volumes to me.

I don't know much about open water sailing so things the sequence of events as described by Bennett certainly may be 100% accurate. Still, the family's immediate reaction is curious.

Sad situation all the way around.

I totally agree. One of my sisters and I are very close. We confide in each other about the details of our relationships with our SOs. If God forbid this happened to my sister, I would react the same way as isabellas sisters have reacted, because I know private details of my sisters tumultuous marriage. However if this happened to me, I am pretty sure my sister would be grieving WITH my SO, because she knows we do not have a tumultuous relationship and he treats me great. Same with my other sister who has a good marriage - I can't imagine accusing her husband of killing her.

I think isabellas sisters probably know private details which made them react the way they did.

 

[LaneGirl]

Yes, I think so. That is why I'm trying to figure out how he flooded the boat, but in a way that no one would figure it out.

Do they have the catamaran? I thought I read up thread they don't have it because it was lost at sea and they didn't go in the hulls because it was too dangerous. I may have missed something though.

 

[Hiandmighty]

The coast guard put a locater beacon on it (because this boat is now a navigational hazard to other boats) and the battery died (?!?) so now they don't know where the cat is.

There are salvage rules for international waters, so someone is likely going to grab it and claim it.

 

[LaneGirl]

The coast guard put a locater beacon on it (because this boat is now a navigational hazard to other boats) and the battery died (?!?) so now they don't know where the cat is.

There are salvage rules for international waters, so someone is likely going to grab it and claim it.

And so in a case like there where there may be question re her death, what happens when someone claims it? Do they keep it? Or do they try to get it back to LE?

Meaning will investigators get a chance to look at it? Or is it gone forever?

 

[Hiandmighty]

There are so many laws and subsets of laws that I'm not sure. I'm sure some people keep the boat. I believe they are supposed to tow it and will then be compensated in return for the amount of risk, trouble, miles etc they took, which is sometimes the price of what the boat is now worth.

I'm sure there are pirates around too, so we can only guess what will happen to the boat.

 

[LaneGirl]

There are so many laws and subsets of laws that I'm not sure. I'm sure some people keep the boat. I believe they are supposed to tow it and will then be compensated in return for the amount of risk, trouble, miles etc they took, which is sometimes the price of what the boat is now worth.

I'm sure there are pirates around too, so we can only guess what will happen to the boat.

Ah thanks. So its possible we may never know if he flooded a hull or not.