FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[Truth Prevails]

Some thoughts on your thoughts...

That's interesting about placing the chair under the doorknob. I would expect she had either a deadbolt or a doorchain. With a doorchain a door that was opened could be shoved insid the length of a chain, and the base of a doorchain is not nearly as sturdy as a deadbolt, hence the chair which would keep an opened door from being pushed in at all.

However, without the chair you would still have massive damage from pulling the doorchain out of the frame.

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe it was a deadbolt. I think Mr. Kesse installed it for her, but it was one you could just use once you were inside. Still, it should have prevented anyone from entering with a key once she was safely ensconced in her condo. I guess the chair would have been yet one more safety measure. Which all apparently failed?

It's difficult to concieve of her going outside in heels and carrying the friend's phone as well as hers for any reason but going somewhere.

I know; believe it or not, I agree. Bringing the friend's phone really bothers me--especially if she didn't have a purse. That does certainly seem to indicate that she went out intending to mail it immediately.

Which brings us to being in bed. My guess is she was "in bed" most of the evening on the phone. unless someone who knows her well knows that she for example preferred to sit on a sofa, an easychair, or something while talking on the phone, my guess is she sat at the head of the bed and leaned back on pillows, etc. to relax.

I don't think she got into bed, pulled covers over her, call her bf and said good night, and went to sleep. I don't thnk she lied to her bf saying she was in bed. The people she talked to may shed light that makes that guess wrong, but that's what I envision.

Well, there are a couple of points here--I believe her landline was in her bedroom. So, I'm pretty sure your suggestions are mostly correct in certain regards.

However, that very last phone call was a routine, nightly occurrence between her and Rob. She called him every night around the same time to say good night; as she called (or texted) him every morning.

Another interesting thing about that phone call--could the perpetrator have known she made that call to Rob every night? If she had been taken before she made it, I bet no-one would have waited until morning to start searching for her.

While she could have found a shipping place near work at lunchtime, it eats up a good portion of your lunch hour so to speak and can be very slow, especially when other people have the same idea. She could possibly just pick up and leave work any time to take care of it, but again not something you see very often.

Good points, as always. But if it was me, I would much rather sacrifice my lunch hour than go out to very risky neighborhoods to mail the dang thing after 10 o'clock at night. Heck, if it was me, I would have told my brother to drive his rear end up to my condo and pick it up, since he was the one who left it there cause he was the one using it. But I'm hateful like that.

Thanks for your thoughts, Truth.

I keep over-sharing my thoughts because I keep thinking sooner or later a viable theory based in some kind of workable logic will occur to me. Alas, that does not appear to be happening. Thank you for your tolerance.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Interesting theory re the prostitute Truth , could you expand on it ?


If we are theorising a night time abduction, but jenn not leaving voluntarily, ie the mobile , this would mean a person or persons gaining access to her flat ?

How would the clothes laid out , make up , shower etc tie into that ? Could she have been forced into those actions, then removed in her car ?

Regarding the bolding by me--I missed this point earlier and I really would like to address it as it is probably the big sticking point for me.

I believe it would be possible, but why would they go to all that trouble?

One reason might be that someone was hoping to make it look like Jennifer had decided to leave on her own, without telling anyone. If it weren't for the 2nd cell phone and the poor quality video of the POI dumping Jennifer's car, it may have worked for them, (or him).

But we would need motive. What we are talking about here is something much more complicated than an abduction for the purpose of sexual assault.

All I can come up with--and this is a bit ridiculous and out-of-the-blue--but I bet the outfit she worked for threw a big Christmas bash. Could Jennifer have gone and seen something; or overheard something; or got involved in something she didn't realize was dangerous?

The timing kind of fits, but it's pretty outlandish, I know.

 

[Truth Prevails]

there is overnight fed-ex located at oak ridge rd and johnyoung pkwy ,
maybe at the last minute she decided to go there and send the phone,that way she will not have to deal with it in the morning
the pñace id kind of isolated and she cparkedould have in an area with no cameras ?

I think the detectives actually worked this angle, at least in the beginning. In one of the cable specials--the ID one, maybe--Sgt. Ring mentions about a whole team of detectives driving around there and gathering any available surveillance. But they found absolutely nothing. Not a trace.

He made it sound a little creepy, too; although that isn't the way he phrased it. I bet law enforcement has a lot of informant types in areas like that, too. And they probably used every single one of them--but nothing. Everything lead to nothing.

 

[Markybug]

✨✨The clothes laid out: The clothes shown in the picture--which I know was a re-enactment--were all neatly folded as if she had simple grabbed a pile from her luggage and laid them there intending to put them in her drawer or wherever they belonged. To me, they don't even resemble work outfits that would co-ordinate with the much discussed maybe missing shoes. I would think even for a re-enactment, they would have set out skirts, blazers, something obviously indicating business attire. So, with respectful thoughts for Mr. and Mrs. Kesse, I don't know what to believe there.

I am more concerned about Jennifer's night clothes found on her bathroom floor. This indicates she did get dressed sometime after talking to Rob. Why? If it was a surprise attack, she wouldn't have had time to change.✨✨


Snipped this section. I did not know this , always assumed the details and pictures of the flat were “as found”

 

[Markybug]

I theorised a while back a scenario, where someone in “need” drunk /distressed etc turned up at her flat , an offer of a lift home , signals are misread and something horrible happens ?

This could explain the mobile being missing , if it was someone who knew the owner, and could return it..

Maybe the police have a record of a call to jenn (landline or her mobile) after she speaks to rob , but nothing to tie that to the abduction.

 

[shelly111]

The predator kidnapped jenniferr and came back later that night or early morning, to stage the apt so it will look like she left for work.
In case he had keys,he could have been in her apt many times before while jennifer was at work. He knew her morning routine and knew she takes shower in morning,etc.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Snipped this section. I did not know this , always assumed the details and pictures of the flat were “as found”

I really don't think so. Greta went to Orlando to interview the Kesses not long after Jennifer went missing, and the interview was done in Jennifer's condo. That's the good thing because at least the pictures accurately depict the inside of Jenn's condo--they don't in some of the specials.

The Kesses arrived at their daughter's condo hours before law enforcement and if they thought to take any pictures, I'd be willing to bet we have never seen them. In Greta's special done in 2014, she mentions about the earlier interview in 2006 but the Kesses had been living in the condo since the afternoon of the 24th; so everything was pretty much a re-enactment.

I have seen somewhere where the pictures were actually called a re-enactment, but, of course, I can't find that right now.

I'll just add this little transcript and a supporting link: (The actual quote I was looking for may be in the 2nd or 3rd part, but (with apologies) I haven't got time to go through it right now).

@ about 10:46 minutes in:
Greta: Just days after her disappearance, I traveled to Orlando where the Kesses showed me inside their daughter’s home.

Greta: Is this how you discovered her room?

Mrs. Kesse: Well, no. The bed was unmade and she had like two skirts and a pair of slacks on the bed—like she couldn’t figure out what to wear. But these are the clothes she wore to work Monday, and we have not disturbed them.

Greta: And that’s where she left them?

Mrs. Kesse: And that’s where she left them.
Part 1: http://video.foxnews.com/v/3642478585001/?#sp=show-clips
Part 2: http://video.foxnews.com/v/3642478584001/?#sp=show-clips
Part 3: http://video.foxnews.com/v/3642477484001/?#sp=show-clips

The first picture below is a screenshot I just captured from the first part of the video linked above. It shows the clothes over the back of the chair as Mrs. Kesse explains that is where Jennifer left them.

The second picture is the now almost iconic photo of the clothing Jenn "laid out" for work.

I dunno, folks.

(Just click to enlarge the pictures).

 

[Truth Prevails]

I theorised a while back a scenario, where someone in “need” drunk /distressed etc turned up at her flat , an offer of a lift home , signals are misread and something horrible happens ?

This could explain the mobile being missing , if it was someone who knew the owner, and could return it..

Maybe the police have a record of a call to jenn (landline or her mobile) after she speaks to rob , but nothing to tie that to the abduction.

Yes, this works quite nicely, really.

If someone she knew and trusted suddenly showed up--or called in advance to say they were dropping over--it could even explain the clothing on the bathroom floor. Possibly she quickly got dressed and once the person got there she explained about the cell phone and asked that person to accompany her to a mail outlet.

That would pretty much take care of everything, even the stalking angle.

So, definitely someone she knew well.

Thank you for this.

 

[flgrl017]

What did she use as an alarm clock?

I think if we can figure that out (or someone may know it already) it would help a lot.

 

[flgrl017]

Also could she ship from work? My husbands office has fed ex and ups coming by on a daily basis so if this is the case why make a special trip at night. It wouldn't matter that late at night if you waited until the next day because after 10 pm is way past the cut off time for next day shipping as far as I know.

 

[lns]

Also could she ship from work? My husbands office has fed ex and ups coming by on a daily basis so if this is the case why make a special trip at night. It wouldn't matter that late at night if you waited until the next day because after 10 pm is way past the cut off time for next day shipping as far as I know.

I believe that, at the beginning at least, it was thought she would ship the phone from work. The police had an early theory that this all happened when she went to FedEx the phone the night before, but the family was under the impression she would have just shipped the phone from work. I was also under the impression she used the cell phone as her alarm clock. I hope it's ok to say this, I believe that I heard this on the Unconcluded Podcast and possibly early on in these threads.​

 

[flgrl017]

I believe that, at the beginning at least, it was thought she would ship the phone from work. The police had an early theory that this all happened when she went to FedEx the phone the night before, but the family was under the impression she would have just shipped the phone from work. I was also under the impression she used the cell phone as her alarm clock. I hope it's ok to say this, I believe that I heard this on the Unconcluded Podcast and possibly early on in these threads.​

As a young woman, that's what I would have done. I wouldn't go out at night to ship a phone especially if I was leery of the area in which I lived.

If she used the phone as an alarm, how did she wake up that morning then? Wasn't the phone off since 10:40 pm?

 

[flgrl017]

Did her parents ever test the shower to see how long it would stay wet? I know they wouldn't know all the parameters but you would know the temperature/humidity/thermostat settings.

 

[Ozoner]

Regarding the bolding by me--I missed this point earlier and I really would like to address it as it is probably the big sticking point for me.

I believe it would be possible, but why would they go to all that trouble?

One reason might be that someone was hoping to make it look like Jennifer had decided to leave on her own, without telling anyone. If it weren't for the 2nd cell phone and the poor quality video of the POI dumping Jennifer's car, it may have worked for them, (or him).

But we would need motive. What we are talking about here is something much more complicated than an abduction for the purpose of sexual assault.

All I can come up with--and this is a bit ridiculous and out-of-the-blue--but I bet the outfit she worked for threw a big Christmas bash. Could Jennifer have gone and seen something; or overheard something; or got involved in something she didn't realize was dangerous?

The timing kind of fits, but it's pretty outlandish, I know.

You may be overthinking things. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Either she was lured out of her apartment by someone she knew or someone posing as an authority figure, or she went out to her car to get something (or maybe to put the friend's phone in the car so she wouldn't forget to take it to work in the morning) and was abducted from the parking lot.

There were no signs of violence inside her apartment, so I don't think she was abducted from there unless someone lay in wait and then chloroformed her before she had a chance to resist.

 

[rd_jfc]

You may be overthinking things. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Either she was lured out of her apartment by someone she knew or someone posing as an authority figure, or she went out to her car to get something (or maybe to put the friend's phone in the car so she wouldn't forget to take it to work in the morning) and was abducted from the parking lot.

There were no signs of violence inside her apartment, so I don't think she was abducted from there unless someone lay in wait and then chloroformed her before she had a chance to resist.

The friend's phone and her new heels missing is the problem with a simple explanation.

 

[rd_jfc]

Did her parents ever test the shower to see how long it would stay wet? I know they wouldn't know all the parameters but you would know the temperature/humidity/thermostat settings.

And if it dries to less damp than they found it in less than 8 hours, which is very likely, what conclusion do they and we draw then?

 

[rd_jfc]

As a young woman, that's what I would have done. I wouldn't go out at night to ship a phone especially if I was leery of the area in which I lived.

If she used the phone as an alarm, how did she wake up that morning then? Wasn't the phone off since 10:40 pm?

The problem is most people have to deal with shipping something outside of work hours. People claiming Jennifer would ship from work when pressed how this works mostly don't stick around to answer the question. I've seen at least one response though that implies that a person would just put a package in the mailroom and say ship it, as if the company is shipping it.

That appears to be why the people sure she woul ship from work don't want to talk about it.

I ask the simple question. Do any of these impressions that she would handle it from work come from knowing she has done it before, has said that's how she would handle it, or is known that office mates handled shipping personal items from work?

That has received a resounding crickets for 12 years now.

If no one has any clue as to how she would handle her personal shipping from work, then the reality is to deal with it as how you and I would handle it. For overnighting ( getting it into the system by 6 pm pickup), you have this late night at some 24 hour place, before going to work at places that open at 6am, lunch hour or a break from work if pretty close by, and after work if can get there well before 6 pm.

She had an important 11 am meeting at work so probably had a busy lunch hour planned, and she left Monday around 6 pm if I recall correctly so probably after work was not a candidate.

Taking care of it before work was what I thought until we find out the phones were disabled at 10:40 pm. All indications are that Jennifer left her condo wearing her heels and carrying both phones and wallet before 10:40 pm.

There are just no factual indicators for anything else. If there's any information to the contrary it would be helpful, although I'm not sure the heels being in her briefcase in the trunk changes much of anything (if the briefcase is in the trunk).

Actually the heels are a bit of a wrinkle, but at same time makes any involuntary exit from her condo much more unlikely,

The phone as alarm is also a major problem for any scenario where voluntarily turned her phone off or for example removed the battery and put it in a battery charger, which is what many of us did in that interval between only landlines and disposable-phones-R-US.

Well, for most people, I only had my landline disconnected a few months ago and still have a removeable battery cell phone, so I have operated phone wise like Jennifer all these years.

 

[flgrl017]

And if it dries to less damp than they found it in less than 8 hours, which is very likely, what conclusion do they and we draw then?

It would give you an idea of when it was last used.

 

[flgrl017]

The problem is most people have to deal with shipping something outside of work hours. People claiming Jennifer would ship from work when pressed how this works mostly don't stick around to answemr the question. I've seen at least one response though that implies that a person would just put a package in the mailroom and say ship it, as if the company is shipping it.

That appears to be why the people sure she woul ship from work don't want to talk about it.

I ask the simple question. Do any of these impressions that she would handle it from work come from knowing she has done it before, has said that's how she would handle it, or is known that office mates handled shipping personal items from work?

That has received a resounding crickets for 12 years now.

If no one has any clue as to how she would handle her personal shipping from work, then the reality is to deal with it as how you and I would handle it. For overnighting ( getting it into the system by 6 pm pickup), you have this late night at some 24 hour place, before going to work at places that open at 6am, lunch hour or a break from work if pretty close by, and after work if can get there well before 6 pm.

She had an important 11 am meeting at work so probably had a busy lunch hour planned, and she left Monday around 6 pm if I recall correctly so probably after work was not a candidate.

Taking care of it before work was what I thought until we find out the phones were disabled at 10:40 pm. All indications are that Jennifer left her condo wearing her heels and carrying both phones and wallet before 10:40 pm.

There are just no factual indicators for anything else. If there's any information to the contrary it would be helpful, although I'm not sure the heels being in her briefcase in the trunk changes much of anything (if the briefcase is in the trunk).

Actually the heels are a bit of a wrinkle, but at same time makes any involuntary exit from her condo much more unlikely,

The phone as alarm is also a major problem for any scenario where voluntarily turned her phone off or for example removed the battery and put it in a battery charger, which is what many of us did in that interval between only landlines and disposable-phones-R-US.

Well, for most people, I only had my landline disconnected a few months ago and still have a removeable battery cell phone, so I have operated phone wise like Jennifer all these years.

You can print postage online. Usually offices have Usps/fedex/ups shipping boxes because they ship stuff every day. If it were me, I'd prepare the package and print a label and give it to whoever deals with the delivery people whether it be a secretary or mail room.


I don't see her wearing heels out at night if she was just leaving to ship something. As a woman, that doesn't make sense unless it's the only pair of shoes she had.

 

[rd_jfc]

You can print postage online. Usually offices have Usps/fedex/ups shipping boxes because they ship stuff every day. If it were me, I'd prepare the package and print a label and give it to whoever deals with the delivery people whether it be a secretary or mail room.


I don't see her wearing heels out at night if she was just leaving to ship something. As a woman, that doesn't make sense unless it's the only pair of shoes she had.

I agree. That's why I said it was a wrinkle. On the other hand, a bigger wrinkle that she was wearing heels and carrying something with the friend's phone in it when involuntarily departing her condo.

I'm not familiar with 2006 era US Post Office shipping overnight with pickup ala FedEx and UPS and paid for with postage, and how one would know what postage it takes and obtain it and apply it.

I know Post Office has competitive offerings in more recent years but not aware how that would work in 2006.
Is that viable as the way Jennifer would handle overnighting the phone from work in 2006?