GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[mobeydick]

Define too many, please.

50 or so. My luck is running out.

 

[fran]

IMHO, I believe that this case AGAIN proves that Florida needs to revise their SYG law. It's too easy to hide behind fake justice, IMHO, and get away with murder. They also SHOULD, IMHO, review all those legally carrying a concealed weapon. Some people shouldn't be allowed in public with a loaded gun. It makes it too easy.

I don't care if the teenagers got smart mouthed with him, but I'm not so SURE they did. This guy had almost 24 hours to think up his story. We haven't heard any witness statements. We don't know that the shooter is telling the truth. We just hear his attorney who's job is to get their client off, no matter what.

This young man and his friends were doing nothing wrong, that any parent of a teenager can see. This is typical of what teenagers do, listen to loud music. I hear it every day driving down the street. From ALL accounts that I've seen in videos and print, there hasn't been ONE person say anything other than good things about this boy. Heck, even those who spoke highly of him seemed like really nice kids and people.

I'll wait until I see more evidence before making further judgement. Right now, it looks to me that there is a shooter accused of murder and attempted murder and a dead teenager killed over something senseless, ie. loud music. Then I see his heartbroken parents trying to calm everyone and make something positive out of their heartbreak, starting a foundation for 'at risk youth' and 'repeal Florida's SYG Law.'

Such a heartbreaking situation, all around.

JMHO
fran

 

[mobeydick]

Is Jacksonville really any worse than Detroit? Detroit is one of my favorite cities in the United States and it has a really bad reputation, yet, I have never had any problems while I am there and I have been in some really rough areas of Detroit?

I understand that there are area's where crime is more rampant, but from what one of our local members said, the area the shooting happened in was a good, low crime area with higher priced homes.

It depends on how you look at it, Detroit is 1/4 the size of Jacksonville. If you use the same land area as detroit I would say it's worse. Detroit is 143sq miles Jacksonville is 778sm. about the same population. You take just inside 295 belt and I would bet you it's worse per person.

 

[LolaMoon08]

IMHO, I believe that this case AGAIN proves that Florida needs to revise their SYG law. It's too easy to hide behind fake justice, IMHO, and get away with murder. They also SHOULD, IMHO, review all those legally carrying a concealed weapon. Some people shouldn't be allowed in public with a loaded gun. It makes it too easy.

I don't care if the teenagers got smart mouthed with him, but I'm not so SURE they did. This guy had almost 24 hours to think up his story. We haven't heard any witness statements. We don't know that the shooter is telling the truth. We just hear his attorney who's job is to get their client off, no matter what.

This young man and his friends were doing nothing wrong, that any parent of a teenager can see. This is typical of what teenagers do, listen to loud music. I hear it every day driving down the street. From ALL accounts that I've seen in videos and print, there hasn't been ONE person say anything other than good things about this boy. Heck, even those who spoke highly of him seemed like really nice kids and people.

I'll wait until I see more evidence before making further judgement. Right now, it looks to me that there is a shooter accused of murder and attempted murder and a dead teenager killed over something senseless, ie. loud music. Then I see his heartbroken parents trying to calm everyone and make something positive out of their heartbreak, starting a foundation for 'at risk youth' and 'repeal Florida's SYG Law.'

Such a heartbreaking situation, all around.

JMHO
fran

Excellent post, Fran.

 

[mobeydick]

Is Jacksonville really any worse than Detroit? Detroit is one of my favorite cities in the United States and it has a really bad reputation, yet, I have never had any problems while I am there and I have been in some really rough areas of Detroit?

I understand that there are area's where crime is more rampant, but from what one of our local members said, the area the shooting happened in was a good, low crime area with higher priced homes.

2 more have been shot today, one in CC and most likely will not make it, the other was a drive by!

 

[Bee Happy]

2 more have been shot today, one in CC and most likely will not make it, the other was a drive by!

How does that affect this case?
Does that justify this man shooting the teens?

 

[Steely Dan]

50 or so. My luck is running out.

You have been shot at 50 times, during the day? What do you do for a living?

 

[mobeydick]

How does that affect this case?
Does that justify this man shooting the teens?

It Justifies carring a weapon in Jacksonville!

 

[mobeydick]

You have been shot at 50 times, during the day? What do you do for a living?

I've been in bad areas of Jacksonville 50 times.

 

[mobeydick]

Horrors! Clearly he deserved to be shot at, then!

(that was sarcasm, in case you missed it)

Almost as bad as threatening someone and then representing the means to carry out that threat!

 

[fran]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/3...-station-draws-comparisons-to-trayvon-martin/

Since the shooting, Davis' family has received an outpouring of support from the community. A "Justice for Jordan" Facebook page was set up and his classmates gathered at a memorial service with T-shirts showing Davis' smiling face. Fire trucks saluted him by spraying water over an airplane carrying his body to Atlanta while it was on the runway. His funeral is scheduled for Saturday.
Davis' father, Ron, said his son was a typical high school junior


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/3...-comparisons-to-trayvon-martin/#ixzz2DiRxCQt2





http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/30/fatal-shooting-music-martin-case/1736879/

Standing over his son's casket, Ron Davis promised to fight laws that allow people to carry guns outside of their homes.

"Law enforcement should be the only people who should have guns on the street," he said. "That's what's killing our kids more than anything."

Police said they didn't find a weapon in the SUV with the young men, and Ron Davis said he doesn't believe Dunn's claim that he saw a gun. He thinks Dunn is searching for an explanation.

"They were just 17-year-old kids that were having a good time, coming from the mall," he said.

read more .....http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/30/fatal-shooting-music-martin-case/1736879/

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
A jury is likely going to have to decide this case and witnesses and any videos if present need to be shown.

We dont know what happened here yet, but if we are to believe that loud music started the whole thing, then that is bothersome because it is an age-old issue and is avoidable. Haven't we all been at a stop light and another car pulls up next to us with their stero blasting. If we are honest with ourselves, then we ask ourselves do we like it when that happens? Most of us probably do not like it, but we normally ignore it and go on our way. But some people end up in fights over it or flipping the bird at people.

This is an age-old problem of blasting loud music to either show off or cause a reaction from others. It seems people like to show off their loud stereos to cause a reaction from others, and in this case, the wrong type of person obviously had a terribly wrong reaction. It escalated into something that was tragic.

If he was in the wrong and was not threatened by another weapon, then he probably will be prosecuted. The point I think I am trying to make is it was avoidable if we are to believe this all started with loud music confrontation.

When people purposely blast their stereos, they are putting themselves at risk of having some person go out of control over it. Whether it be just a fight, flipping the bird, or even worse, there is danger in doing it.

Its one thing to play the music extremely loud while driving on the road, and quite another to be parked at a store or at a stop light where others are affected by the loud music. There is risk in doing it. The other person that escalates it may totally be in the wrong too and may be prosecuted for whatever they do, but the point is that there is danger in doing that and bad things can happen from it.

I'm referring to extremely loud blaring music that is way beyond what is considered just loud. Some people have extremely loud stereos that you can hear blocks away. Its fine to use them in certain places like driving, but when purposely trying to show off or cause reactions from others, there is risk in that. Even if the other guy is totally in the wrong too, it doesnt matter because bad things can happen. Even if this guy goes to jail, it is still terrible that it happened in the first place and now someone is dead.

Not sure if I was clear in point trying to make. Just a sad case all around. Just trying to point out that some things are avoidable. There are loose cannon type people out there all the time, and for me, I don't want to do anything to help make them lose their temper.

Here is another analagy that is not quite the same but similar. I walk into a bar and start yelling that I am the baddest person in the bar. Will I cause some lose cannon type person to try to beat me up. Most likely, so I dont do that.

 

[Isabelle]

Snipped for space.

I think it matters a great deal what the police found and didn't find? The defense can say anything they like, but evidence speaks for itself. There was no gun. So there was no gun pointed at Mr. Dunn.

It was very likely that Mr. Dunn had no problem starting a confrontation with a group of teenagers while he was packing a gun for no reason so why doesn't it seem likely he would shoot an unarmed kid for no reason? I am sure there were words exchanged between the teens and Mr. Dunn, but words do not mean Mr. Dunn had a right to unload a weapon into an occupied vehicle.

Mr. Dunn not only fled the scene the night of the shooting, but when he found out he had actually killed a kid, he fled hours south. The only thing, since there appears to be no video, that helped apprehend Mr. Dunn was a witness who wrote down his license plate. Mr. Dunn made no attempts to turn himself into police. Not even his own police station where he lived. Did he contact a lawyer before or after he was arrested?

Mr. Dunn did flee and flee some more.

Yes, it seems Mr. Dunn was on the run! Flagrant consciousness of guilt!

 

[Isabelle]

The defence says there was a gun, it doesn't matter what the police did or did not find. If this guy believed a weapon was pointed at him, or it was (and not fired), the psychology behind how someone would react in those circumstances is exactly like how people can and do react in battle situations.

People who say they would or wouldnt have done this or that do not understand that. It is easy to be the armchair referee about what did or didn't or should have happened after the fact. It is not so easy for the person actually in that position when it happened.

It does not seem likely that this guy would have deliberately shot this kid for no reason. So, obviously, there was stuff going on in the confrontation that caused him to panic. Other than leaving the scene there does not appear to be any obvious attempts to flee or hide.

This is the reason why citizens should not be allowed to carry arms. It is far too easy to use them with serious consequences in response to situations that require an immediate reaction where they are acting on instinct.

I am still waiting for the situation where someone pulls a gun, and half a dozen armed bystanders also pull their guns triggering an armed shootout where no one knows who the bad guys are and just shoot everyone they see. It is going to happen sooner or later.

Whatever the defense says isn't necessarily so and the defense knows that what they say in the media may serve to contaminate the jury to the defense's benefit!

 

[writer7]

What's the mall like in Jacksonville, just out of curiosity? It's not a place where gangbangers hang out, is it?

We're getting a feel for one local's view of Jacksonville, which is cool. I hung out there one night years ago with the Guardian Angels, visiting a friend's friend who was one.

But we need to keep in mind the specifics of the case, too. We are hearing specific details about the players, and they seem to have nothing to do with gangbangers. Look at the pictures of Jordan. Check out the surroundings in the pictures. It looks like he hung out at very nice spots, imho. Much nicer than where I hung out in Jacksonville, lol!

I'm not so shallow to think nice spots = a person's character, btw, but there seem to be no clues pointing toward a gangbanger conclusion except for the color of this kid's skin. Come on now, everyone (hypothetical everyone); let's be intelligent about all this. We don't need our Black children wearing body paint now do we? Imagine you adopted a Black child if it helps

 

[writer7]

JMO
A jury is likely going to have to decide this case and witnesses and any videos if present need to be shown.

We dont know what happened here yet, but if we are to believe that loud music started the whole thing, then that is bothersome because it is an age-old issue and is avoidable....

On the loud music, my brother does that here. It bothers me because I get migraines. I think it's rude. It's absolutely no reason to get shot, though!

The fact that some people get massively violent when angry is really on them. Now I agree with you that I don't ever poke those folks. It was stupid to engage in any argument with this man, clearly. Stupid -- not culpable in any way.

It's like wearing sexy clothes in a dark alley at night. I don't do it, and it can be called stupid, but if I got raped, that's still completely on the rapist. The problem is rapists and folks who pull guns when they are angry! Folks should try to be careful, but blaming the victim is never cool.

 

[mobeydick]

What's the mall like in Jacksonville, just out of curiosity? It's not a place where gangbangers hang out, is it?

We're getting a feel for one local's view of Jacksonville, which is cool. I hung out there one night years ago with the Guardian Angels, visiting a friend's friend who was one.

But we need to keep in mind the specifics of the case, too. We are hearing specific details about the players, and they seem to have nothing to do with gangbangers. Look at the pictures of Jordan. Check out the surroundings in the pictures. It looks like he hung out at very nice spots, imho. Much nicer than where I hung out in Jacksonville, lol!

I'm not so shallow to think nice spots = a person's character, btw, but there seem to be no clues pointing toward a gangbanger conclusion except for the color of this kid's skin. Come on now, everyone (hypothetical everyone); let's be intelligent about all this. We don't need our Black children wearing body paint now do we? Imagine you adopted a Black child if it helps

All the Malls are outside (except Regency and there was a shooting inside there last year I think 1 or 2 people were killed) the beltway. There use to be malls inside but they are run down and some have been converted into other things. And loud rap music.

 

[writer7]

Loud rap is what my brother listens to too loudly. He's white. It's kind of uncool to not ever listen to rap


There was an interesting new quote in that link above. Check this out:

..."When [Dunn's girlfriend] came out, she said, 'What's going on?' and supposedly his statement was, 'I just fired at these kids,'" Schoonover [the lieutenant] said. "At that time I don't know if he knew that he struck anyone in the vehicle."...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/30/fatal-shooting-music-martin-case/1736879/

 

[Hatfield]

On the loud music, my brother does that here. It bothers me because I get migraines. I think it's rude. It's absolutely no reason to get shot, though!

The fact that some people get massively violent when angry is really on them. Now I agree with you that I don't ever poke those folks. It was stupid to engage in any argument with this man, clearly. Stupid -- not culpable in any way.

It's like wearing sexy clothes in a dark alley at night. I don't do it, and it can be called stupid, but if I got raped, that's still completely on the rapist. The problem is rapists and folks who pull guns when they are angry! Folks should try to be careful, but blaming the victim is never cool.

Right and another good analagy. Totally not blaming the victim here. Just saying that we can take steps to avoid situations that cause loose-canon or crazy people to lose it.

If they had just turned their stereo down when pulling into the store, maybe, just maybe the poor kid would still be alive today. No sense in provoking the general public when there are crazy people everwhere.

I think sometimes people dont realize how many unstable people are out there in the world. I've run into many over the years. We even had one guy that would sit on the street corner yelling profanity at everybody who walked by. He was known as "crazy jim", and everyone ignored him. But a visitor came over and freaked out when he saw and heard him. We had to tell him....."oh, thats just crazy jim". LOL

 

[mobeydick]

I would like to know the shooters criminal record if he has one.