GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[Steely Dan]

We were taliking about the lady friends actions.

Wewere taliking about his GFs actions.

Do you think normal people would run away from, or towards gunshots?

Who knows, What I think is the young man killed was not the intended target, I don't know there was a terget.

Then why fire nine shots?

 

[mobeydick]

Do you think normal people would run away from, or towards gunshots?



Then why fire nine shots?

You have sent 1 down range 1 or 100 more would make no difference!

 

[Tugela]

I am trying really hard to follow your train of thought?

We are being told that there was no weapon, at least no gun, found in the car or on any of the teens. So, I will, at this time, go with what the police have found to be the facts of this case. So, Mr. Dunn was not some soldier in battle and I kind of find it a little offensive that he and the position he created for himself is being compared to that of soldiers in actual war.

Not trying to be mean or snarky. It's just my opinion.

The defence says there was a gun, it doesn't matter what the police did or did not find. If this guy believed a weapon was pointed at him, or it was (and not fired), the psychology behind how someone would react in those circumstances is exactly like how people can and do react in battle situations.

People who say they would or wouldnt have done this or that do not understand that. It is easy to be the armchair referee about what did or didn't or should have happened after the fact. It is not so easy for the person actually in that position when it happened.

It does not seem likely that this guy would have deliberately shot this kid for no reason. So, obviously, there was stuff going on in the confrontation that caused him to panic. Other than leaving the scene there does not appear to be any obvious attempts to flee or hide.

This is the reason why citizens should not be allowed to carry arms. It is far too easy to use them with serious consequences in response to situations that require an immediate reaction where they are acting on instinct.

I am still waiting for the situation where someone pulls a gun, and half a dozen armed bystanders also pull their guns triggering an armed shootout where no one knows who the bad guys are and just shoot everyone they see. It is going to happen sooner or later.

 

[Tugela]

I've got a gun. I was threatened with a "shotgun" that was never shot. The kids have backed away. I'm in no danger. The police are on their way. JMO

Not to mention that he is required to do that LEGALLY.

Not in Florida.

 

[Tugela]

Then why fire nine shots?

Emptying his weapon. Classic sign of panic.

 

[Steely Dan]

Not in Florida.

Just to clarify this. You can shoot someone in Florida and leave the scene without notifying the police?

 

[Steely Dan]

Emptying his weapon. Classic sign of panic.

Or anger. JMO

 

[Nova]

There are many SYG cases and they cross all racial/ethnic lines. Just google "stand your ground cases" and you will see that SYG is not just a white man/black teen crime.

Donald Pettit killed by James Patrick Wonder (white shooter, white victim).

David James killed by Trevor Dooley (black shooter, white victim).

Pedro Roteta killed by Greyston Garcia (Hispanic victim, Hispanic shooter).

Daniel Adkins Jr. killed by a black man (name has been withheld by police). Adkins was a mentally challenged Hispanic man and the man who killed him is black.

People should research the SYG topic before claiming that it only applies to white men shooting black teens. It doesn't. It crosses racial and ethnic bounds. And the only reason you don't hear about the other cases is because the MSM doesn't care about white people shooting white people or Hispanics shooting Hispanics. The only cases they seem to find "newsworthy" are when a black person is the victim.

The problem with SYG isn't racism. The problem is the SYG law.

Thank you for the reminder. I didn't mean to claim that SYG shootings are always white on black, just that the ones that make the news most often seem to be. (I was a juror myself on such a case under California law and both the killer and victim were black.)

 

[tlcya]

The defence says there was a gun, it doesn't matter what the police did or did not find. If this guy believed a weapon was pointed at him, or it was (and not fired), the psychology behind how someone would react in those circumstances is exactly like how people can and do react in battle situations.

People who say they would or wouldnt have done this or that do not understand that. It is easy to be the armchair referee about what did or didn't or should have happened after the fact. It is not so easy for the person actually in that position when it happened.

It does not seem likely that this guy would have deliberately shot this kid for no reason. So, obviously, there was stuff going on in the confrontation that caused him to panic. Other than leaving the scene there does not appear to be any obvious attempts to flee or hide.

This is the reason why citizens should not be allowed to carry arms. It is far too easy to use them with serious consequences in response to situations that require an immediate reaction where they are acting on instinct.

I am still waiting for the situation where someone pulls a gun, and half a dozen armed bystanders also pull their guns triggering an armed shootout where no one knows who the bad guys are and just shoot everyone they see. It is going to happen sooner or later.

I agree with much of what you said. Particularly the last paragraph referencing wild west behavior because everyone is packing. This is one of my major issues with SYG law.

Howeve I must disagree with the BBM. The shooter, on hearing one of the teens was dead on the news the next morning, left the motel he was staying at and fled the area. He was apprehended 150 miles away by LE.

 

[Nova]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone in this thread said it was a white guy shooting a black guy all the time.

It was implied by something I wrote, Dan. I understand gxm's correction. I was writing theatrically and I should have made it clear that I didn't mean my post literally.

 

[Isabelle]

Indeed we don't know what really happend yet and will likely never know what really happened!

I think it is possible we will learn exactly what happened, whether some of us choose not to believe it is another story.

 

[Isabelle]

I would love to know what the driver of the SUV was buying also.

Maybe skittles and iced tea?

 

[Isabelle]

Really you would rather be left at a gas station in Jacksonville FL. after the person you rode to that station with was just in a gun fight! You need to think about that!

I would rather call police for help!

 

[Isabelle]

Oddly, I can't find any articles online that have anyone but Dunn's daughter telling what a great guy he is. The son says he seemed great, but that's from that one afternoon of the wedding, and he qualifies it that way.

There are articles about him flying into a no-fly zone where the FBI got involved, and recent articles mention anti-government FB posts of Dunn's. But not so many folks are calling up reporters to tell how surprised they are that he did this, apparently. Hmmmm.

Well, his lawyer thinks he's a great guy

His company also has complaints posted on the internet!

 

[Steely Dan]

Maybe skittles and iced tea?

:giggle:

 

[Nova]

In the other, alluded to case in this thread, the shooter is Hispanic. So, the black/white arguement is moot there. Sure, you have people who want to claim him to be white for their own agenda's, but he is not. But, racism exists between black and hispanic people too. Racism is not just black and white.

But, I agree that there is a serious problem with the SYG laws as they are written now. I believe it is a wonderful law, if implemented properly... which it is not.

Just to be clear, Hispanics can be of any race. So the fact that the shooter in the case you cite was Latino tells us nothing about any racial connotation of the shooting.

 

[tlcya]

Maybe skittles and iced tea?

Thank you for that. I really needed to laugh just now.

 

[Nova]

I think the argument will be that he was threatened with a weapon, fired his gun to frighten them off and fled not knowing that someone had been hit.

It is a reasonable argument to explain the events and actions. The question is what sort of evidence either way is there? His lawyer says a gun was pointed at him but none was found. That doesn't mean the person with the gun couldn't have left the scene however.

If I were on the jury, "I fired into a crowded car and then left, not knowing I hit somebody" ain't gonna fly. Just sayin'.

 

[Nova]

White people get on the news for using SYG-type laws against white people, too, btw. Where was that case where the guy went over and shot his neighbor for having a loud party (all white folks)? He totally tried to set up a SYG defense, and the 911 call was so ridiculous. I think it was in Texas?

I'll try to find it if anyone is interested.

Speaking for myself only, of course I realize that most shootings, just like most social interactions, are intra-racial.

But my attention is attracted when a white man kills a black kid and then claims self-defense because I am less confident that our justice system will prosecute the shooter fully and correctly. My lack of confidence is based on living the United States for almost 60 years.

 

[Steely Dan]

Speaking for myself only, of course I realize that most shootings, just like most social interactions, are intra-racial.

But my attention is attracted when a white man kills a black kid and then claims self-defense because I am less confident that our justice system will prosecute the shooter fully and correctly. My lack of confidence is based on living the United States for almost 60 years.

+1 :goodpost: