GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[gxm]

There are many SYG cases and they cross all racial/ethnic lines. Just google "stand your ground cases" and you will see that SYG is not just a white man/black teen crime.

Donald Pettit killed by James Patrick Wonder (white shooter, white victim).

David James killed by Trevor Dooley (black shooter, white victim).

Pedro Roteta killed by Greyston Garcia (Hispanic victim, Hispanic shooter).

Daniel Adkins Jr. killed by a black man (name has been withheld by police). Adkins was a mentally challenged Hispanic man and the man who killed him is black.

People should research the SYG topic before claiming that it only applies to white men shooting black teens. It doesn't. It crosses racial and ethnic bounds. And the only reason you don't hear about the other cases is because the MSM doesn't care about white people shooting white people or Hispanics shooting Hispanics. The only cases they seem to find "newsworthy" are when a black person is the victim.

The problem with SYG isn't racism. The problem is the SYG law.

 

[Steely Dan]

There are many SYG cases and they cross all racial/ethnic lines. Just google "stand your ground cases" and you will see that SYG is not just a white man/black teen crime.

Donald Pettit killed by James Patrick Wonder (white shooter, white victim).

David James killed by Trevor Dooley (black shooter, white victim).

Pedro Roteta killed by Greyston Garcia (Hispanic victim, Hispanic shooter).

Daniel Adkins Jr. killed by a black man (name has been withheld by police). Adkins was a mentally challenged Hispanic man and the man who killed him is black.

People should research the SYG topic before claiming that it only applies to white men shooting black teens. It doesn't. It crosses racial and ethnic bounds. And the only reason you don't hear about the other cases is because the MSM doesn't care about white people shooting white people or Hispanics shooting Hispanics. The only cases they seem to find "newsworthy" are when a black person is the victim.

The problem with SYG isn't racism. The problem is the SYG law.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone in this thread said it was a white guy shooting a black guy all the time.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...t-saw-shotgun-shot-self-defense#ixzz2DX9uDWpF

If he thought he was really shooting in self-defense, why did he leave?

Self defense indeed!

1) Who is he to tell these teens to turn their music down? Why did he not go into the store and make a complaint to the manager if he was so peeved at the music? It would be up to the manager to handle the customer complaint the best way he/she felt necessary. It was not this man's property to make such demands on a group of teenagers.

2) Where is the gun the teen allegedly pulled on the shooter? Was it recovered inside the car? Around the crimescene (teen fleeing gunshots and throwing own gun into the bushes?)?

3) Had he already went to the wedding? Was he intoxicated from drinks being served at the reception? Unfortunately, alcohol would probably be completely out of his system before police caught up with him. Which is too bad. At least I can't blame police on a blood test not being done in this case. Thank God!

4) Video! Hopefully the confrontation was caught on tape and police have reviewed that tape. That could explain why an arrest was made so swiftly and why there was no delay in charges being brought against the shooter.

I understand that not all people like rap music, but you don't see middle-aged black men shooting white teenagers for playing loud heavy metal, sometimes satanic music. Geesh!!

ETA: I just read the article and no such shotgun was found in the car the teens were in. Also, the attorney for Mr. Dunn does not say that the victim was the one who pointed the shotgun at Mr. Dunn so why was it that the victim was the only one shot? If Mr. Dunn was in fear for his life, I would assume that the shots would be directed at the person pointing the gun at him. Since the victim was in the back seat of the car, I would assume the gun, if the victim is the one who pointed it at Mr. Dunn, would have been found in the back seat with him.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just a random thought, but it would be interesting to see Mr. Dunn's internet history. Just to see if he had made a donation to a certain somebody in a similar situation he has found himself in? It would also be interesting to know if he was peeved about a recent election.

Sounds like Mr. Dunn had some built up anger issues which could have been increased with some alcohol consumption before the encounter.

I am only assuming that Mr. Dunn and his girlfriend stopped off at the gas station after the wedding reception, so I want to make sure people understand I am only speculating that Mr. Dunn was drinking prior.

 

[Steely Dan]

Self defense indeed!

1) Who is he to tell these teens to turn their music down? Why did he not go into the store and make a complaint to the manager if he was so peeved at the music? It would be up to the manager to handle the customer complaint the best way he/she felt necessary. It was not this man's property to make such demands on a group of teenagers.

2) Where is the gun the teen allegedly pulled on the shooter? Was it recovered inside the car? Around the crimescene (teen fleeing gunshots and throwing own gun into the bushes?)?

3) Had he already went to the wedding? Was he intoxicated from drinks being served at the reception? Unfortunately, alcohol would probably be completely out of his system before police caught up with him. Which is too bad. At least I can't blame police on a blood test not being done in this case. Thank God!

4) Video! Hopefully the confrontation was caught on tape and police have reviewed that tape. That could explain why an arrest was made so swiftly and why there was no delay in charges being brought against the shooter.

I understand that not all people like rap music, but you don't see middle-aged black men shooting white teenagers for playing loud heavy metal, sometimes satanic music. Geesh!!

ETA: I just read the article and no such shotgun was found in the car the teens were in. Also, the attorney for Mr. Dunn does not say that the victim was the one who pointed the shotgun at Mr. Dunn so why was it that the victim was the only one shot? If Mr. Dunn was in fear for his life, I would assume that the shots would be directed at the person pointing the gun at him. Since the victim was in the back seat of the car, I would assume the gun, if the victim is the one who pointed it at Mr. Dunn, would have been found in the back seat with him.

BBM

Great question.

 

[LolaMoon08]

BBM




My favorite part of this article;

...“He acted the way any responsible firearms owner would act in a similar situation because a shotgun was aimed at him,” she said.

Jacksonville police said no weapon was found in the car.

“How hard did they look,” Lemonidis said. “Have they done an entire search?”...

She's got a point. A cop could have just shined a flashlight into the car and decided there was no shotgun. They probably didn't look under the seats or in the back or in the front or under the car. They probably never interviewed any witness' or looked at the videotape from the 7-11 outside cam, I'm pretty sure it would have one, (All of the 7-11 in my area have them.) and they probably didn't look for evidence of how the shooting occurred. I'm sure when someone is killed with a gun the cops just let it go.

Exactly! Video is the key here and I am sure police have reviewed the video. They would be able to see if the uninjured teens had fled from the gunshots and what direction they had fled. But... here's the twist.

What I believe the lawyer is implying and hoping for is that the uninjured teens did flee in different directions and off camera so that she can claim in court that the teens had thrown the gun into some bushes as they fled and came back later to get the gun and get rid of it.

Where she is going to have a hard time with this theory is showing why Mr. Dunn not only fled the scene that night, but fled the entire area upon hearing about the death of one of the teens.

She could say he fled the scene because he was scared of retaliation based on the alleged shotgun. But then, why not call police from the safety of the hotel? Or on his cell phone on the way to his hotel? Police would have had a way better chance of recovering this alleged gun had they known about it the night of the shooting.

Mr. Dunn's attorney is only hoping that there is something on that video that takes at least one of the teens off camera.

We also have to realize that the uninjured teens most likely spent hours and hours detained at a police station for statements, etc... at least the night of the shooting.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Can anyone who knows more about guns explain shotgun to me? When I think about shotguns, I think of larger guns. Not hand guns. Could a shotgun be easily hidden in ones pants, waistband, etc... so it would not be seen in video taken at the time of the shooting?

ETA: Could a shotgun be easily hidden as someone dodges bullets? I am just trying to figure out if there is any way one of the uninjured teens could have fled with the gun without video seeing the gun.

 

[gxm]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone in this thread said it was a white guy shooting a black guy all the time.

Yes. You missed it. There's "rage and racism" all over this thread.

"When white men start shooting white unarmed teenagers and claiming SYG, let's talk again."

The reality is that SYG cases are a varied lot. And not as one-sided as the MSM has led the public to believe.

 

[Sonya610]

I have not bought a weapon yet cause when I do I want to know the gun inside and out on how to use. I do have an instructor just haven't made the time.

If you plan to carry do think about the weight. Carry pieces aren't for certain occasions when you "think you might need it" because you have no idea how to predict when you might. My carry piece is a Lady S&M 38 Air Weight Revolver because they are super light and simple; no jams but fewer shots. Light enough that you can carry it in a handbag and never think about it.

Most gun owners want a few in strategic places because fast access is the most important thing. If you buy one and then realize it isn't perfect you haven't wasted your money, you will always have a use for it and you can buy another that seems like a better fit for your needs. Guns don't require monogamy, you can have more than one.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yes. You missed it. There's "rage and racism" all over this thread.

"When white men start shooting white unarmed teenagers and claiming SYG, let's talk again."

The reality is that SYG cases are a varied lot. And not as one-sided as the MSM has led the public to believe.

I think the point that was being made was that you do not see white men following white kids and shooting them claiming self defense or white men shooting and killing white kids over loud music and claiming self defense.

Of course there are a lot of self defense cases that are very valid and they vary from race, age, social status, gender etc... There are also very clear cases where SYG is being used when it does not apply that vary as well.

What makes the two cases that are mentioned in this thread unique is the circumstances in which these two young boys were killed. Both boys were the ones confronted by their shooter in a threatening/angry manner by complete strangers who had no right to say two words to them as they were not hurting anyone or committing any crime. Unless we are to believe that violating a city ordinance on loud music deserves the death penalty in this case?

It will be interesting to see what happens in this case. I am very happy that Mr. Dunn has not been given bond because his actions directly after the shooting and the days after. He is most definitely a flight risk.

 

[Sonya610]

Can anyone who knows more about guns explain shotgun to me? When I think about shotguns, I think of larger guns. Not hand guns. Could a shotgun be easily hidden in ones pants, waistband, etc... so it would not be seen in video taken at the time of the shooting?

Yes. A sawed off shotgun could be hidden in baggy pants.

 

[gxm]

I think the point that was being made was that you do not see white men following white kids and shooting them claiming self defense or white men shooting and killing white kids over loud music and claiming self defense.

Of course there are a lot of self defense cases that are very valid and they vary from race, age, social status, gender etc... There are also very clear cases where SYG is being used when it does not apply that vary as well.

What makes the two cases that are mentioned in this thread unique is the circumstances in which these two young boys were killed. Both boys were the ones confronted by their shooter in a threatening/angry manner by complete strangers who had no right to say two words to them as they were not hurting anyone or committing any crime. Unless we are to believe that violating a city ordinance on loud music deserves the death penalty in this case?

It will be interesting to see what happens in this case. I am very happy that Mr. Dunn has not been given bond because his actions directly after the shooting and the days after. He is most definitely a flight risk.

I disagree. I think the point that has been made is that many people only care about SYG cases when the victim is black and the shooter is white. But a mentally challenged Hispanic victim killed by a black shooter, or the myriad other SYG cases that don't fit the white shooter/black victim niche, not so much.

The problem isn't "rage and racism," the problem is the SYG law.

FTR, if it's not obvious, I am anti-SYG because of the level of abuse by killers who are getting away with murder.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yes. A sawed off shotgun could be hidden in baggy pants.

Assuming that the boys were wearing baggy pants, then if one of the uninjured teens had taken the gun and hidden it in his baggy pants, then it could have been concealed from video. The key thing is, were any of the uninjured teens out of camera view or missing for any amount of time immediately after the shooting. Or were they all accounted for on camera until police arrived?

I would think that if the boys did have a gun and the gun was pointed at Mr. Dunn prior to him firing 8 or 9 shots into a car full of teens, that it would have given him more incentive to call police as he should have known immediately that it was indeed self defense and it could be proven because police would have known about this gun and recovered it immediately.

I really hate cases like this. They really are senseless crimes.

 

[QueenD]

Can anyone who knows more about guns explain shotgun to me? When I think about shotguns, I think of larger guns. Not hand guns. Could a shotgun be easily hidden in ones pants, waistband, etc... so it would not be seen in video taken at the time of the shooting?

ETA: Could a shotgun be easily hidden as someone dodges bullets? I am just trying to figure out if there is any way one of the uninjured teens could have fled with the gun without video seeing the gun.

No........ A shot gun has a long barrel unless it has been cut. A normal size shotgun is at least 3-4 feet long. (Full gun)

It could be hidden I guess in someone pants alone side of legs or under a long coat? I suppose the pants would have to had fit bigger.

This thought brings back a video the instructor showed when I took my CCW class.
It did show a young teen pulling all these weapons from under clothing. When you first seen the teen you would have never thought he had anything under his clothing. None of the clothes were baggy.

 

[Sonya610]

Yes. You missed it. There's "rage and racism" all over this thread.

Agreed. And the fact is if the REVERSE had happened it would not have made the national news. In fact the reverse happens far far more often for various reasons and only the local news covers those events.

 

[QueenD]

Assuming that the boys were wearing baggy pants, then if one of the uninjured teens had taken the gun and hidden it in his baggy pants, then it could have been concealed from video. The key thing is, were any of the uninjured teens out of camera view or missing for any amount of time immediately after the shooting. Or were they all accounted for on camera until police arrived?

I would think that if the boys did have a gun and the gun was pointed at Mr. Dunn prior to him firing 8 or 9 shots into a car full of teens, that it would have given him more incentive to call police as he should have known immediately that it was indeed self defense and it could be proven because police would have known about this gun and recovered it immediately.

I really hate cases like this. They really are senseless crimes.

Has a video showed up? Earlier news was saying this station had no video.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I disagree. I think the point that has been made is that many people only care about SYG cases when the victim is black and the shooter is white. But a mentally challenged Hispanic victim killed by a black shooter, or the myriad other SYG cases that don't fit the white shooter/black victim niche, not so much.

The problem isn't "rage and racism," the problem is the SYG law.

FTR, if it's not obvious, I am anti-SYG because of the level of abuse by killers who are getting away with murder.

In the other, alluded to case in this thread, the shooter is Hispanic. So, the black/white arguement is moot there. Sure, you have people who want to claim him to be white for their own agenda's, but he is not. But, racism exists between black and hispanic people too. Racism is not just black and white.

But, I agree that there is a serious problem with the SYG laws as they are written now. I believe it is a wonderful law, if implemented properly... which it is not.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Has a video showed up? Earlier news was saying this station had no video.

That would be a travesty if the store did not have video. I did not read that, but I surely hope that is not the case. Does anyone know what kind of neighborhood the station was located in? Was it a high crime area? Do we have any locals here that could help us with the area this shooting occured in?

 

[Sonya610]

No........ A shot gun has a long barrel unless it has been cut. A normal size shotgun is at least 3-4 feet long. (Full gun)

A full length shotgun, but gang bangers prefer sawed off models.

The man may not even have realized it was sawed off, if one is pointed at you then you see the end of the barrel not the length.

The fact he said "shotgun" and not handgun makes me think he is probably telling the truth. If he were going to make something up he wouldn't likely have said shotgun.

 

[Sonya610]

That would be a travesty if the store did not have video. I did not read that, but I surely hope that is not the case. Does anyone know what kind of neighborhood the station was located in? Was it a high crime area? Do we have any locals here that could help us with the area this shooting occured in?

Surveillance systems in convenience stores are intended to protect against robbery and internal theft. The cameras typically cover the interior, the front door, and the back door.

If this happened a ways away from the main doors there probably isn't any video, the cameras focus on the store not the parking lot. Convenience stores are mostly owned by smaller franchisees not corporations like WalMart that worry about parking lots and huge outdoor areas.