GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #1

[vlpate]

I did say it was just a random thought. I happen to have those a lot.

It is my opinion that Mr. Dunn should have never even said anything to the teens. He should have went into the store and to management to complain and allow management to handle the situation the way they felt best.

On another note, good to see you again, vlpate! :rocker:

I think he should have simply left, not like the music was going to keep him awake. My feeling is utter disgust for this man.

Thanks Lola, you too.

 

[writer7]

Agreed. And the fact is if the REVERSE had happened it would not have made the national news. In fact the reverse happens far far more often for various reasons and only the local news covers those events.

I never said they claim self defense. I said it is far more common and it NEVER makes the national news. There is no outrage or national news coverage or claims of racism when it happens, is there? When the reverse happens it is called "robbery" even if nothing was taken.

For 'the reverse' to happen, it would mean a claim of self-defense and a shooting of an unarmed, young stranger who was basically just out in public.

Actually, as this hit national news, the lawyer for the shooter was specifically talking about using the SYG law, a controversial law before it was even enacted. So there are a lot of reasons why this would get media coverage, imho.


For the story, I can definitely see driving off if it were self-defense. I sure wouldn't stick around in case other folks had guns. But I'd call 911 while driving off. That delay is incredibly suspicious.

Also, quite frankly, if someone pulls a shotgun up in your face, chances are you'll be shot up if you had to take 8 or 9 shots off at the guy. The shotgun holder didn't get to squeeze the trigger even once, after he was all prepared and everything? Hmmmm. I'd like to hear about the shooter's gun and the ammo he was using.

I did hear there were lots of witnesses since it was a busy place and not even late in the evening. They had time to take down the shooter's license number, so cops knew where to find them at home (when they eventually drove home).
I'm a gun owner and know how to shoot very well, btw.

 

[Sonya610]

Gotcha! You have been most helpful. I really hope more details emerge. The victim, according to one of the articles, had a job at a grocery store. I believe a Winn Dixie? Which did make me realize just how different SW Florida is to Jacksonville because I have not seen a Winn Dixie in YEARS! If this wasn't such a tragic case, I would laugh at how different it really seems to be.

He was probably a bagger and helped people out to their cars with their groceries.

Lola do you really think this guy just opened fire and shot at these poor youths over loud music? Do you think he decided "Hey, some black youths in a car, I feel like killing one of them for no particular reason other than the fact I hate them and their music is too loud!"

I think something happened, threats were made, things escalated. I think maybe there was a weapon but if there was it won't be found, LE won't look all that hard for the weapon and the media won't report on any criminal records of the others in that car.

I also think based on what little info we have so far the guy is going to do some time for this.

 

[Tugela]

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...t-saw-shotgun-shot-self-defense#ixzz2DX9uDWpF

If he thought he was really shooting in self-defense, why did he leave?

I think the argument will be that he was threatened with a weapon, fired his gun to frighten them off and fled not knowing that someone had been hit.

It is a reasonable argument to explain the events and actions. The question is what sort of evidence either way is there? His lawyer says a gun was pointed at him but none was found. That doesn't mean the person with the gun couldn't have left the scene however.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I think he should have simply left, not like the music was going to keep him awake. My feeling is utter disgust for this man.

Thanks Lola, you too.

I do wonder if he had just left his son's wedding and alcohol was involved? People handle alcohol very differently and maybe alcohol made Mr. Dunn more aggressive. Not excusing his behavior, but I have to wonder if alcohol played a factor in his behavior.

I would really like to know more about Mr. Dunn in general? I would also like to know more about the teens too. For all we know, the teens were in their own neighborhood coming home from the movies. Or, they could have been up to more than sitting at the gas station?

 

[LolaMoon08]

I think the argument will be that he was threatened with a weapon, fired his gun to frighten them off and fled not knowing that someone had been hit.

It is a reasonable argument to explain the events and actions. The question is what sort of evidence either way is there? His lawyer says a gun was pointed at him but none was found. That doesn't mean the person with the gun couldn't have left the scene however.

Firing a gun to frighten someone, IMO, would not include 8 or 9 shots, but one shot into the air and not aimed at a car full of teens?

 

[Sonya610]

I think the argument will be that he was threatened with a weapon, fired his gun to frighten them off and fled not knowing that someone had been hit.

It is a reasonable argument to explain the events and actions. The question is what sort of evidence either way is there? His lawyer says a gun was pointed at him but none was found. That doesn't mean the person with the gun couldn't have left the scene however.

Chances are pretty darn good some of the youths in that car had a criminal record that involved violence and or weapons. The defense attorney will sort that out. The shooter won't get off scott free though. He messed up.

 

[Tugela]

There are many SYG cases and they cross all racial/ethnic lines. Just google "stand your ground cases" and you will see that SYG is not just a white man/black teen crime.

Donald Pettit killed by James Patrick Wonder (white shooter, white victim).

David James killed by Trevor Dooley (black shooter, white victim).

Pedro Roteta killed by Greyston Garcia (Hispanic victim, Hispanic shooter).

Daniel Adkins Jr. killed by a black man (name has been withheld by police). Adkins was a mentally challenged Hispanic man and the man who killed him is black.

People should research the SYG topic before claiming that it only applies to white men shooting black teens. It doesn't. It crosses racial and ethnic bounds. And the only reason you don't hear about the other cases is because the MSM doesn't care about white people shooting white people or Hispanics shooting Hispanics. The only cases they seem to find "newsworthy" are when a black person is the victim.

The problem with SYG isn't racism. The problem is the SYG law.

The problem with the law is that it provides a ready made excuse for anyone who gets into an exchange with a gun. If the other person is killed you end up with a situation where you only have one side of the story, and technically the law says it is OK then.

It is an extremely unwise law that probably allows people to get away with murder.

 

[writer7]

Chances are pretty darn good some of the youths in that car had a criminal record that involved violence and or weapons. The defense attorney will sort that out. The shooter won't get off scott free though. He messed up.

Why are those chances good?

 

[Tugela]

If Mr. Dunn was in fear for his life, I would assume that the shots would be directed at the person pointing the gun at him. Since the victim was in the back seat of the car, I would assume the gun, if the victim is the one who pointed it at Mr. Dunn, would have been found in the back seat with him.

No. If a gun was pulled on you, and you attempted to get out of line of fire, the natural reaction would be to return fire in the general direction of the attacker, basically to distract him while you made good your escape. In that scenario someone who was with the original attacker could easily take the bullet. It happens all the time.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Lola do you really think this guy just opened fire and shot at these poor youths over loud music? Do you think he decided "Hey, some black youths in a car, I feel like killing one of them for no particular reason other than the fact I hate them and their music is too loud!"

I think something happened, threats were made, things escalated. I think maybe there was a weapon but if there was it won't be found, LE won't look all that hard for the weapon and the media won't report on any criminal records of the others in that car.

I also think based on what little info we have so far the guy is going to do some time for this.

It depends on what we learn of Mr. Dunn as a person and about these teens as people? I don't know what Mr. Dunn's past is? Does he have a history of violence? Was alcohol involved? People go off the handle all the time for any amount of reasons? Was he fighting with his girlfriend? Was he already angry about something?

Of course I believe that words were exchanged. I would exchange words with someone who yelled at me in any way and I am a 33-year-old woman! Do I believe the teens had a gun? Not right now. I can not find any logical reason why Mr. Dunn would not call police, even after fleeing to a safer location if these teens had a gun??

But, like you said, we have very little information and there is a reason why a judge has decided that Mr. Dunn is to have no bond? Reasons we may not know about yet?

 

[writer7]

White people get on the news for using SYG-type laws against white people, too, btw. Where was that case where the guy went over and shot his neighbor for having a loud party (all white folks)? He totally tried to set up a SYG defense, and the 911 call was so ridiculous. I think it was in Texas?

I'll try to find it if anyone is interested.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Why are those chances good?

Excellent question!

 

[Tugela]

Where she is going to have a hard time with this theory is showing why Mr. Dunn not only fled the scene that night, but fled the entire area upon hearing about the death of one of the teens.

She could say he fled the scene because he was scared of retaliation based on the alleged shotgun. But then, why not call police from the safety of the hotel? Or on his cell phone on the way to his hotel? Police would have had a way better chance of recovering this alleged gun had they known about it the night of the shooting.

His lawyer will argue that is because he was unaware that someone had been hit since he was not aiming at anyone specifically. He fired and fled, but was not tring to shoot anyone. So the later reports came as a surprise to him.

If you got into an exchange of gunfire with someone after an argument you inititiated, would you go directly to the police? I think you would be pretty foolish if you did.

 

[writer7]

I'd go directly to the police! No doubt in my mind. You're asking for folks to suspect you of more otherwise, imho.

 

[tlcya]

I disagree. I think the point that has been made is that many people only care about SYG cases when the victim is black and the shooter is white. But a mentally challenged Hispanic victim killed by a black shooter, or the myriad other SYG cases that don't fit the white shooter/black victim niche, not so much.

The problem isn't "rage and racism," the problem is the SYG law.

FTR, if it's not obvious, I am anti-SYG because of the level of abuse by killers who are getting away with murder.

This.

 

[LolaMoon08]

His lawyer will argue that is because he was unaware that someone had been hit since he was not aiming at anyone specifically. He fired and fled, but was not tring to shoot anyone. So the later reports came as a surprise to him.

If you got into an exchange of gunfire with someone after an argument you inititiated, would you go directly to the police? I think you would be pretty foolish if you did.

BBM I didn't know there was an exchange of gunfire? According to the very limited information we have, Mr. Dunn is the only one who fired any shots?

Does not answer the question as to why he fled the area after learning of the teens death either? Which is very, very hard to explain.

MOO

 

[Sonya610]

Why are those chances good?

Crime statistics. But I won't post any of them, I don't want a time out.

 

[Tugela]

BBM I didn't know there was an exchange of gunfire? According to the very limited information we have, Mr. Dunn is the only one who fired any shots?

Does not answer the question as to why he fled the area after learning of the teens death either? Which is very, very hard to explain.

MOO

In war it is not unusual for soldiers to go through a battle not firing a single shot and thinking they had, because of the extreme stress and noise. Likewise when in a stress panic they can return fire to the sound of their own gunshots, thinking someone is shooting at them.

When you are placed in a situation where you percieve yourself to be in mortal danger and panic, with weapons involved, your perceptions of what is going on around you get highly distorted and may not be accurate.

 

[writer7]

Crime statistics. But I won't post any of them, I don't want a time out.

Well, we Americans have really awful crime statistics compared to a lot of places, but I have no violent record and I'd be offended if someone said that chances were good that I did. Those statistics are comparisons between groups of people, not predictive of 4 random guys.

Now, if it's 4 guys with a shotgun they point at people, I'll certainly agree with your guess about their records