GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #8

[Karmady]

Where there are wealthy people and guns, fancy drugs (cocaine, heroin) will follow. :moo:

What does this mean, exactly? Serious question. I'm not sure what that means wrt gun violence.

But putting aside what your meaning was, I'm sure drugs are there already and have been for a long time. Including heroin. There's still almost no gun crime and I don't think much, if any, of what there is is related directly to drugs -- as in related to drug transactions.

jmo

eta: of the last two murders I know of in Scottsdale, one was a husband who choked his wife to death in their home and turned himself in immediately. The other was a jealous STBex who shot the new boyfriend then himself. Not sure if his gun was legal or not.

 

[ElleElle]

This reminds me of the Arias penalty verdict...at least my feelings on it...we got both Dunn and Arias but not 100%...it sort of leaves you hanging...as for the retrial...well I certainly want to see his held accountable of the murder but the way things are going for juries today and the instructions they receive that they cannot understand..he could get a not guilty and then what?? Would they go for overturning the others.??? Crazy world.

I have never been a juror. The only time i've been asked I had a trip booked for Vegas.

I do truly some jurors feel a connection with the defendant. Once you are in the same room daily observing (not what we see), sounds, chemistry, vibes, you may develop feelings and won't change the way you feel.

This is why I despise juries. Some people bring emotion into a case. :facepalm:

I also avoid CNN/HNL because they don't help.

:twocents:

 

[Cat99]

think about this for a minute. do you think a jury that couldn't reach a verdict when no gun was ever found, if those kids had shot back, do you think the jury would believe those black kids were shooting back in self defense?

seriously. would anyone have believed that he shot first and they were shooting back unless there was a clear video showing it.


remember. even unarmed black teens in florida are guilty. i can't imagine how they'd treat a black youth that tried to defend themselves.

BBM - so very true and sad to me.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I feel really bad for the son (and his wife and family). Your deadbeat Dad makes a drunk appearance at your wedding, leaves early (to a collective sigh of relief I suspect) then goes straight on to KILL SOMEBODY.

Now that's a part of his wedding memory and every anniversary for the duration.

So many casualties in the ripple effect. Of course the vast majority being in the Davis camp.

Did anyone at the wedding testify, or even say, that MD was drunk?

 

[ElleElle]

On the jailhouse phone conversation with his father and mother, Dunn's father tells MD it's going to cost them $100,000 to defend him for this trial. Obviously, from what Strolla said in his press conference the family decided not to do that. Apparently Dunn has very little assets so he may try again for a public defender. Dunn can't change his story. The three passengers are out of the picture in terms of the next trial so it is just what happened between JD and MD. I think the lyrics to the song may go a long way into the jury believing that MD may have misheard and misjudged what JD said because of the song. The fact that TS had opened his driver door to get in may have confused MD after-the-fact with him thinking JD must have opened his door to try and get out. He never saw an actual gun and if we look back at his testimony it keeps changing with little details never mentioned before. If the State goes over his testimony word-for-word and matches it up with what MD said happened I don't think it will leave doubt in the minds of the jurors that he just overreacted to backtalk from a teen. jmo

BBM~ Yes, I wish there are witnesses that can really say how much he had to drink that day.

 

[Karmady]

think about this for a minute. do you think a jury that couldn't reach a verdict when no gun was ever found, if those kids had shot back, do you think the jury would believe those black kids were shooting back in self defense?

seriously. would anyone have believed that he shot first and they were shooting back unless there was a clear video showing it.


remember. even unarmed black teens in florida are guilty. i can't imagine how they'd treat a black youth that tried to defend themselves.

Teenagers who are minors aren't allowed to carry guns anywhere, including Florida, afaik. Actually, I have never owned a gun so I don't know how old you have to be to get a permit -- 18 or 21?

 

[ElleElle]

Unfortunately, I think bias played a role. There are so many MSM reports of crime, that is almost fear mongering to those whose daily lives are outside the "fringe". For some of these jurors, the fact that there were 4 black youths, playing loud rap music, JD mouthing off, in a tinted SUV, may have been enough to sway them towards NG. They may have put themselves in MD shoes and thought that they would be afraid if JD was saying "I am gonna kill you MF".

Where theses jurors, if any, stopped their rationalization was with what a prudent, responsible, reasonable adult would do. That adult would have moved his car. And not pulled out a gun and shot bullets into a car.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Dunn was treated with indifference at his son's wedding as he was not an integral part of his son's life. I think this made MD furious and unfortunately, JD was the recipient of that anger. JMV

:bump:

You nailed it Zuri!

 

[Jellyworker]

Teenagers who are minors aren't allowed to carry guns anywhere, including Florida, afaik. Actually, I have never owned a gun so I don't know how old you have to be to get a permit -- 18 or 21?

I can't speak for Florida but no permit is required to own a hand gun or long gun in Texas. To purchase a long gun you must be 18. 21 for a handgun. But teens receive guns as bday gifts here. The permit is for conceal carry. Just owning a gun does not require a permit.


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[Karmady]

I can't speak for Florida but no permit is required to own a hand gun or long gun in Texas. To purchase a long gun you must be 18. 21 for a handgun. But teens receive guns as bday gifts here. The permit is for conceal carry. Just owning a gun does not require a permit.


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So a 13-17 year old can carry a handgun in Tx so long as it's not concealed. I don't think that's the law in Fla., but I could be wrong about that. Locals?

 

[ElleElle]

I call MD reaction to JD displaced anger. MD was relegated to a table with his ex wife's brother, not at the main table with the immediate family. RR and MD both testified that they didn't talk to many people at the wedding. Outsiders. Guests. Acquaintances. Only invited as a courtesy because he was the biological father. Result= Shame, anger, outrage at being treated this way.

I think RR has been the recipient of MD anger. She struck me as a victim of abuse. I think she was emotional on the stand because she did not want to incur MD wrath. Character witnesses testified that MD was a peaceful man. MD projected an image that he wanted people to see, not necessarily who he really was. IMO

He reminds me of Rob Ford. Silver spoon fed, big shot, wealthy family who, in the end, barely puts up with his crap. Addiction issues mixed with deep anger is not a good mix. He was ready to go off.

His sons wedding was the icing of the cake (pun intended). :moo:

 

[turaj]

I have never been a juror. The only time i've been asked I had a trip booked for Vegas.

I do truly some jurors feel a connection with the defendant. Once you are in the same room daily observing (not what we see), sounds, chemistry, vibes, you may develop feelings and won't change the way you feel.

This is why I despise juries. Some people bring emotion into a case. :facepalm:

I also avoid CNN/HNL because they don't help.

:twocents:

I noticed as Im sure everyone did that MD was very careful to make tons of eye contact with that jury on every answer and I sort of got the impression that he was focusing on one or two. Some are speculating about an older guy that they thought may be have been a holdout...don't know but I fully agee. I believe the fact that JA was on that stand for so many days is why they could not decide the penalty.

 

[Jellyworker]

So a 13-17 year old can carry a handgun in Tx so long as it's not concealed. I don't think that's the law in Fla., but I could be wrong about that. Locals?

All handguns must be concealed in Texas, no matter the age, unless on private property. Texas is not a open carry state. I'm saying it is legal for teens to own weapons in Texas. And it is legal to transport a concealed weapon in Texas. Concealed. My 17 year old daughter meets me at the gun range often and she brings her 9 in her car. All legal.


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[ElleElle]

Thanks guys for the links! Reading now...the "code"...interesting. I love it when he says Angela Corey knows she has no chance of a conviction. Right!

I think the "code" is parts of words broken apart?

Will write it out because I can't copy/paste!

 

[SuperTmo]

I call MD reaction to JD displaced anger. MD was relegated to a table with his ex wife's brother, not at the main table with the immediate family. RR and MD both testified that they didn't talk to many people at the wedding. Outsiders. Guests. Acquaintances. Only invited as a courtesy because he was the biological father. Result= Shame, anger, outrage at being treated this way.

I think RR has been the recipient of MD anger. She struck me as a victim of abuse. I think she was emotional on the stand because she did not want to incur MD wrath. Character witnesses testified that MD was a peaceful man. MD projected an image that he wanted people to see, not necessarily who he really was. IMO

RR is very fortunate that MD will be in jail for a long time. She is very lucky he didn't walk out of that courtroom a free man. I suspect she will always fear that MD will win an appeal and get out. He is a very scary man.

 

[sdmike1974]

Mr. Guy should handle prosecuting DUI's and burglaries. Between this case and the Zimmerman trial, I am not impressed. :twocents: As a prosecutor, you want to convince, by every possible means, the jury that the defendant deserves the highest penalty. You fight diligently for the victims and their families. I don't see that in Mr. Guy. I don't see any passion in his calling.
Feel free to throw tomatoes and whatnot :truce:

WSers may not recognize the name Darren Kavinoky. But if you watched HLN or CNN coverage, you'll probably recognize him from the picture at the link below.

He was even on CNN with Don Lemon right after the verdict.

Anyway, the reason I brought him up is because today he wrote a blistering attack of John Guy's cross examination of Michael Dunn.
http://www.darrenkavinoky.com/justice-delayed-jordan-davis-murder-trial/

 

[Karmady]

All handguns must be concealed in Texas, no matter the age, unless on private property. Texas is not a open carry state. I'm saying it is legal for teens to own weapons in Texas. And it is legal to transport a concealed weapon in Texas. Concealed. My 17 year old daughter meets me at the gun range often and she brings her 9 in her car. All legal.


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Ok, I get that. I used to shoot my family's guns at a sportsmans' club and "down by the river" lol whan I was a little kid. Like 6-10. What I'm asking is whether your daughter, for example, if she found herself in Jordan's position could legally have pulled out a gun and used it in self-defense, especially if she were in Florida. I was thinking the situation in the OP simply could not arise because a minor couldn't have a loaded gun in their possession in public. Admittedly, I could be wrong. I just don't know and can't find a clear answer in spite of having looked around a bit.

 

[ElleElle]

I think he's got a WTF! Look on his face, with his palms turned up. Did the guy really think they would acquit him?

He also looks a little like Grumpy Cat.

Sorry Grumpy Cat, I apologize.

This is Grumpy Cat. :floorlaugh:

 

[Cat99]

RR is very fortunate that MD will be in jail for a long time. She is very lucky he didn't walk out of that courtroom a free man. I suspect she will always fear that MD will win an appeal and get out. He is a very scary man.

I 100% agree. Have always felt that she was emotionally abused by him.


JMO

 

[Jellyworker]

Ok, I get that. I used to shoot my family's guns at a sportsmans' club and "down by the river" lol whan I was a little kid. Like 6-10. What I'm asking is whether your daughter, for example, if she found herself in Jordan's position could legally have pulled out a gun and used it in self-defense, especially if she were in Florida. I was thinking the situation in the OP simply could not arise because a minor couldn't have a loaded gun in their possession in public. Admittedly, I could be wrong. I just don't know and can't find a clear answer in spite of having looked around a bit.

Again. I can't speak for Florida but here in Texas, any yes any Texas resident is allow to have a concealed weapon in their car. A car registered in their name. Unless you're a felon, in a gang, or breaking the law. The law does not state an age. No concealed license is required. In Texas concealed means out of sight. Hidden. This is the castle doc or peaceable journey law. Can't remember which. I've taught her to put the gun in the passenger seat and cover it with a towel so if she needs it's it's ready to go. That is concealed while in the car. Out of sight. When she's headed to the range it's on the front seat in a case. Legally, she is allowed to defend herself. But she is a black teen. So while it maybe legal I'm sure they would try to charge her with something. I've also taught not to talk to the cops. Ask for myself or mom.


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[Karmady]

Again. I can't speak for Florida but here in Texas, any yes any Texas resident is allow to have a concealed weapon in their car. A car registered in their name. Unless you're a felon, in a gang, or breaking the law. The law does not state an age. No concealed license is required. In Texas concealed means out of sight. Hidden. This is the castle doc or peaceable journey law. Can't remember which. I've taught her to put the gun in the passenger seat and cover it with a towel so if she needs it's it's ready to go. That is concealed while in the car. Out of sight. When she's headed to the range it's on the front seat in a case. Legally, she is allowed to defend herself. But she is a black teen. So while it maybe legal I'm sure they would try to charge her with something. I've also taught not to talk to the cops. Ask for myself or mom.


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That's really interesting. Thanks for elaborating. I'm in AZ and I imagine the laws are similar here. I'm going to look to see if I can find a case where a minor carrying a loaded weapon in public used it to defend themselves and what happened.

And, btw, I'm not black and neither are my kids, but I've also taught both of them not to talk to the cops. Ever. Until they have a lawyer present. I actually got into it one day with the school police over that. They called to "let me know" they were going to talk with my dd. Yeah--no!

eta: it's only a message board, but at least I'm not the only one wondering

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-649506.html