GUILTY FL - Lonzie Barton, 2, Jacksonville, 24 July 2015 - #6

[Karinna]

O/T Janna Rivera's dad was arrested on Thursday and charged with one count of murder and one count of neglect of a dependent resulting in death. Janna's body hasn't been found but the probable cause doc paints a grim picture. Hopefully it'll be enough to go forward.

And Delano Wilson's dad's trial starts in September - Delano's body hasn't been found either.

In Lonzie's case it seems that there's a lot of circumstantial evidence piling up and we've only seen a couple of the "cards" in JSO's hand. I think they'll have a strong case by the time murder charges are filed.

That is right, we don't know all the evidence LE has yet in building their case. It is not for me really a question of charging and convicting in this case, but more a case of Florida's jury system, and we have seen how that works.

 

[froginTtown]

This case is exactly like "baby Elaina' here in Toledo...
What pushed RE to make that phone call to LE.. at that hour.?
Obviously, the baby was already removed from the apt. by then....
A friend was being pressured to get the kids back to Chris...
Something forced RE into that lame excuse of how Lenzie went missing, and not found in the running car!

 

[Karinna]

This case is exactly like "baby Elaina' here in Toledo...
What pushed RE to make that phone call to LE.. at that hour.?
Obviously, the baby was already removed from the apt. by then....
A friend was being pressured to get the kids back to Chris...
Something forced RE into that lame excuse of how Lenzie went missing, and not found in the running car!

I agree about the call to LE. I think there was some planning going on by RE & maybe LL if Lonzie died that afternoon after the visit by the friend between 1-2pm. I think from memory in msm, that person saw Lonzie and thought all was ok. Then that begs the question who was the third party according to LE that saw that Lonzie had a bruise to his head, was vomiting & lethargic and was not very well? A fact that LL could not deny once it was put to her by LE and she then admitted to it after her arrest.
If the baby died after that it would of been an "Oh s**t" moment and a cover up ensued to hide Lonzie instead of to seek medical attention for him.
I think LL decided to go to work at Wacko's and left RE to do the clean up and disposal. Otherwise why would LL be so evasive and not wanting to go back to the right apartment when her son was missing and lying to LE? That is not an innocent mother's reaction IMO. I think CB knew what LL was like and wanted to get those children out of that situation, but i really don't know what to make of him?

 

[catswhiskers]

I wonder if anyone at Wacko's noticed anything strange about LL's demeanor that evening. You'd think that if she had any awareness of what had or was happening, it would have surely had some sort of emotional effect on her??
Having said that, I was surprised by her story telling on that recording - seeming amused about her antics when she was supposedly out searching for Lonzie. I kind of gave her the benefit of doubt before hearing that - I don't know how anyone could turn a search for their dead child into a boozy, stoned occasion.
I only listened to the recording once, so someone please correct me if I got the wrong impression.

 

[Justice88]

If it is a water location, it is more like a swamp location around here, and he is not going to be deep, it is going to be on the edge of an access point. There are logging areas and lots of retention ponds around CR 210, there is a McDonalds, and there are RR tracks, but where is the blue house coming in to play? There is a Sunoco with a blue roof by the McDonalds, which is just off 95 heading towards the tracks. In Baker County RE was caught with Meth, Heroin, and Ecstasy, which is a very rural mix of drugs, meaning in the sticks here in Florida, Meth makers can make product without stink. Another area that is known is by the hotel strip off Baymeadows, where there are commercial areas with fountains also...... RE was seen at Kangaroo Express on Old Kings and Baymeadows at 12:33am, and IMO i think he was washing his swampy, muddy clothes at the laundromat where he was seen at 8:30. Sunset is at 7pm, so if the woods were "scary", i would say he had just finished. Only problem with this is, didnt the sister confirm Lonzie was in the car before it was stolen? It would have been easy for him to use a baby doll and bundle of clothes with the sister in the front seat and the car seat behind her....

 

[Peppery]

Hmmm...Hackney has mentioned cards a lot, Ebron talks about keys...cardkeys? Like for a hotel, office building, perhaps storage building, gated areas/residences??


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[Kiera]

O/T Janna Rivera's dad was arrested on Thursday and charged with one count of murder and one count of neglect of a dependent resulting in death. Janna's body hasn't been found but the probable cause doc paints a grim picture. Hopefully it'll be enough to go forward.

And Delano Wilson's dad's trial starts in September - Delano's body hasn't been found either.

In Lonzie's case it seems that there's a lot of circumstantial evidence piling up and we've only seen a couple of the "cards" in JSO's hand. I think they'll have a strong case by the time murder charges are filed.

Yes, they will have a strong case before murder charges are filed, just be prepared to wait if necessary. I am not familiar with the other cases you mentioned, but Jacksonville prosecutors will not go forth without a body unless the other evidence is very very strong. They will wait, which is wise.

A good example is Bonnie Haim. 23 years ago her husband told police they had a fight and she left. Her car was found at the airport, her purse in a dumpster near the airport. Her three year old son told police he witnessed his father shoot his mother and run her over with the car, and dispose of the gun in a nearby creek. Dirt from Mike Haims shoes was analyzed and matched a fresh tennis shoe impression of the floor of Bonnie's car.

Enough to prosecute? No, the three year old would be subject to cross examination. No body to counteract his defense that she left of her own accord, which was buffered by "sightings" of Bonnie. So they waited.

When he was five the child rode across a bridge, and told his new family that was where Mike threw the gun. Police found a gun in that creek just like one Mike used to have. But no body, no bullet to match the gun. Not enough, So they waited.

Over they years they have stayed in touch with the son, and documented his recollections as they developed. They have kept a close watch on Mike as well as a suspected accomplice who may have helped him move the car and body. They have documented many conversations with others where potentially incriminating evidence was discussed. Not enough, so they waited.

Her skull was found in December and identified last week. It was found in HIS backyard. That is what they were waiting for. Now the prosecution moves forward. It will be an interesting trial, 23 years of bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence. He will be convicted.

If they had prosecuted swiftly, he would very likely have been aquitted.

(And for those who will ask, of course his backyard was searched, many times. It is apparent that he moved the remains)

 

[bwt42]

I agree about the call to LE. I think there was some planning going on by RE & maybe LL if Lonzie died that afternoon after the visit by the friend between 1-2pm. I think from memory in msm, that person saw Lonzie and thought all was ok. Then that begs the question who was the third party according to LE that saw that Lonzie had a bruise to his head, was vomiting & lethargic and was not very well? A fact that LL could not deny once it was put to her by LE and she then admitted to it after her arrest.
If the baby died after that it would of been an "Oh s**t" moment and a cover up ensued to hide Lonzie instead of to seek medical attention for him.
I think LL decided to go to work at Wacko's and left RE to do the clean up and disposal. Otherwise why would LL be so evasive and not wanting to go back to the right apartment when her son was missing and lying to LE? That is not an innocent mother's reaction IMO. I think CB knew what LL was like and wanted to get those children out of that situation, but i really don't know what to make of him?

I don't think there was a third party. I think Lonnas' friend that visited between 1 & 2 PM reported the bruise which was latter confirmed by Lonna.

 

[Kiera]

That tattoo surely hit the internet and I am sure he saw it from somewhere. Was that her message that she was cool, he can stay cool? Let's see if she visits him now.

I think the love affair is about over.

RE is terrified. Believe it. ANYONE facing life in prison is terrified. If he can pin it on LL, he will. He will save himself, not her.

LL has no reason to talk to LE. Her charges are minor. She can manic depress in jail for a couple of years and come out just the same.

She had the tattoo a couple months ago. The tattoo WAS used as a message, by RE's mother. It was originally included in an interview she did with the media "My son is not a murderer". The gist was, Lonna loves my son and trusts him, they are going to get married and be a family. If the mother of the child believes he is innocent, shouldn't we all? That kinda backfires, the misimpression that the tattoo was new enraged people and turned them hard against LL. So it still worked for RE's mom, because it took attention away from her son, or at least shifted some of his culpability towards LL in the eyes of the public.

 

[B4igo2it]

is there a life insurance policy on Lonzie?

(thinking out loud here - I hate writing this, but a missing child and then a dead child has the potential to raise quite a bit of money for someone not wanting to work and debt solution.)

 

[Karinna]

I don't think there was a third party. I think Lonnas' friend that visited between 1 & 2 PM reported the bruise which was latter confirmed by Lonna.

I haven't seen anything in msm or by LE to confirm who it was, and Hackney mentioned in his presser after LL's arrest that it was a third party who gave LE the information and it wasn't the room mate.

 

[Karinna]

She had the tattoo a couple months ago. The tattoo WAS used as a message, by RE's mother. It was originally included in an interview she did with the media "My son is not a murderer". The gist was, Lonna loves my son and trusts him, they are going to get married and be a family. If the mother of the child believes he is innocent, shouldn't we all? That kinda backfires, the misimpression that the tattoo was new enraged people and turned them hard against LL. So it still worked for RE's mom, because it took attention away from her son, or at least shifted some of his culpability towards LL in the eyes of the public.

Who gets a tattoo and a big one at that, of a guy's name she barely knew? That's just weird IMO.

 

[Karinna]

I wonder if anyone at Wacko's noticed anything strange about LL's demeanor that evening. You'd think that if she had any awareness of what had or was happening, it would have surely had some sort of emotional effect on her??
Having said that, I was surprised by her story telling on that recording - seeming amused about her antics when she was supposedly out searching for Lonzie. I kind of gave her the benefit of doubt before hearing that - I don't know how anyone could turn a search for their dead child into a boozy, stoned occasion.
I only listened to the recording once, so someone please correct me if I got the wrong impression.

I think Lonna was probably not having too much of a reaction to what happened to Lonzie because in her heart she knew it was her fault he died. In that if Lonzie was abused by RE or by her or by both of them, and she failed to get her baby out of that situation, or if Lonzie got into their drugs. A family member also took Lonzie to the Dr. with bruises on him, so possible abuse was already happening back then. She failed to protect her baby and that is now what she has been charged with. She was in self preservation mode after the fact, and trying to carry on as if everything was normal. She has shown just how much her baby has meant to her.
An innocent mother would be grieving in a totally different way, IMO.

 

[Kiera]

Who get a tattoo and a big one at that, of a guy's name she barely knew? That's just weird IMO.

In the cirles they run in, that is kinda like an engagement ring. He was supposed to be getting a matching one, but something tells me "you go first" was his plan. Why so big? Because his ex, also a stripper has a Ruben tattoo. Wouldn't any girl want her engagement ring to be bigger than the previous fiance's?

 

[Ray_of_hope]

The surveillance checks were in specific areas only. If LE is convinced the potential search area is defined, more reason to restart LE supervised/directed searches. Does anyone think WRE or LL will give up where Lonnie is?

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/n...orth-jacksonville-businesses-homeowner/nm8wp/
Believe me, everyone was looking for video. I'm an hour away from Jax and I had my DH get 2 more cameras to monitor the roadway out front and not just our home and yard. There was so much in the news that I believe anyone and everyone with video was checking, whether in the area or even within an hour of Jax.

 

[Karinna]

In the cirles they run in, that is kinda like an engagement ring. He was supposed to be getting a matching one, but something tells me "you go first" was his plan. Why so big? Because his ex, also a stripper has a Ruben tattoo. Wouldn't any girl want her engagement ring to be bigger than the previous fiance's?

Oh yeah i realize the stupidity of their mindset, but for a guy LL barely knew? Maybe she needs to leave some room for other potentials, seeing as RE probably won't be out of jail any time soon.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Greetings from the UK. I've been lurking here since it was first announced that little Lonzie was missing and like everyone else its touched my heart.

What made me post today was while reading through the latest developments I remembered something Chief Hackney said on the press conference when LL was arrested which stuck in my mind at the time...I'm paraphrasing but he said when asked how long they had known about LL lying to LE about knowing RE etc without going into details and giving too much away there was a reason why they were acting at this late hour (In the interview listen from about 5 min 30)

Could it be possible that in the phone calls which they have said have been recorded and visits which will surely have been monitored too, that RE and LL have spoken in code/riddles thinking they were being clever and LE have worked out what they were planning and locked up LL to force RE's hand and purposely placed an inmate, already wired and primed to gain RE's trust and in desperation RE has let the inmate in on his 'clever' plan???...maybe I have watched too many movies and read too many crime books but with this case I don't think anything could surprise me anymore.

I find it totally heart breaking and beyond belief that a mother could behave in this way and have no compassion what so ever.

Alone they're obviously sick and twisted individuals with questionable morals but together they're an unfortunate potent mix of evil and selfish beyond description who should never have crossed paths- history has shown us how two people coming together can create a monster.

I once hoped Lonzie would be found safe and well (obviously still would love that) but now I just wish he was found and could be put to rest in the community he lived where he is loved by the people of his country/state and worldwide more than he obviously was in the place he should have felt safest- his home/family.

Thanks for this wonderful site.

KT xx

ITA with your post and welcome! :welcome3:

 

[Karinna]

is there a life insurance policy on Lonzie?

(thinking out loud here - I hate writing this, but a missing child and then a dead child has the potential to raise quite a bit of money for someone not wanting to work and debt solution.)

Good question.

 

[blefuscu]

Who get a tattoo and a big one at that, of a guy's name she barely knew? That's just weird IMO.

Men who "own" women like Ebron often insist their "women" get a tattoo that symbolises that they are "property" of the man. It's seen a lot in drug life and sex work too.

 

[Karinna]

Men who "own" women like Ebron often insist their "women" get a tattoo that symbolises that they are "property" of the man. It's seen a lot in drug life and sex work too.

But that soon after getting with a guy like that, just a few weeks? And LL is still a married woman not even divorced yet, lol. Guess it must of been her new career move.