FL - Markeis McGlockton shot and killed in front of family, Clearwater, July 2018

[Hraefn]

And for those who firmly support SYG laws; why does M's shove/slam not get the same protection under the first part of the statute?

776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.

I'll never understand the unequal application of this subjective law.

 

[Audrey Horne]

And for those who firmly support SYG laws; why does M's shove/slam not get the same protection under the first part of the statute?

I'll never understand the unequal application of this subjective law.

It's systemic. Sick how people so readily go along with it. We're spiraling down the sewer drain.

 

[AC's Grandma]

SYG would not apply to Markeis due to the fact he was not being threatened prior to slamming the shooter to the ground. The shooter didn't have a gun out a was having a verbal altercation with another person entirely... one who did commit a crime by parking illegally. Again, there is NO proof that there was anyone screaming, yelling or verbally abusing anyone. There is no audio to the videos and the person who walked into the store and said there was an argument outside- his comment about screaming is "subjective." I can speak very loud and others may think that I'm yelling, however it might be due to the fact that I have a hearing problem and therefore talk very loudly that can make others think I'm yelling.

 

[Hraefn]

SYG would not apply to Markeis due to the fact he was not being threatened prior to slamming the shooter to the ground. The shooter didn't have a gun out a was having a verbal altercation with another person entirely... one who did commit a crime by parking illegally. Again, there is NO proof that there was anyone screaming, yelling or verbally abusing anyone. There is no audio to the videos and the person who walked into the store and said there was an argument outside- his comment about screaming is "subjective." I can speak very loud and others may think that I'm yelling, however it might be due to the fact that I have a hearing problem and therefore talk very loudly that can make others think I'm yelling.

But the statute clearly states it can be threats to “another” so this would apply. Every witness statement I have seen said it was screams and threats and under SYG it matters if M subjectively felt there was a threat to another, which seems very possible.

Also the illegal parking has no legal bearing on the situation at all.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Does Markeis not have the right to defend his family? Or is that only reserved for...

Where is a link to where D put his hands upon any of MM's family members? All the video shows is a discussion with the family safely ensconced in a vehicle. You do understand that you cannot attack someone just for telling you to not park in the handicapped parking slot because it deprives a handicapped person of their right to access a public store? There was no attack until MM came out and attacked D from behind. MM made a cowardly move if you ask me.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

You cannot attack someone because you don't like what they're saying. That is NOT self defense. There was no danger of violence until MM attacked D.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

And for those who firmly support SYG laws; why does M's shove/slam not get the same protection under the first part of the statute?


I'll never understand the unequal application of this subjective law.

That's simple. MD wasn't using unlawful force. An argument isn't unlawful however forcefully shoving someone to the ground is.

776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.

 

[Audrey Horne]

Facts are things. There is no requirement that hands be laid upon another. Markeis and/or his wife would have been within their rights to shoot the murderer in the face if they feared for theirs or the other's, or anyone's lives. Somehow, though, I think it would have gone differently, and some posters here would be arguing the exact opposite of what they're saying now, if the victims had in fact used a gun in self-defense against Drejka's assault.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Facts are things. There is no requirement that hands be laid upon another. Markeis and/or his wife would have been within their rights to shoot the murderer in the face if they feared for theirs or the other's, or anyone's lives. Somehow, though, I think it would have gone differently, and some posters here would be arguing the exact opposite of what they're saying now, if the victims had in fact used a gun in self-defense against Drejka's assault.

Fortunately that isn't the law.

 

[SeesSeas]

But the statute clearly states it can be threats to “another” so this would apply. Every witness statement I have seen said it was screams and threats and under SYG it matters if M subjectively felt there was a threat to another, which seems very possible.

Per Sheriff (who is also an attorney) - "there was no threats":
WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter
they got into a pretty significant yelling match. And there was no physical violence, there was no threats, but it was a disturbance.

Posted this yesterday which has a lot of Q&A detail transcribed:

WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter
Posted: Jul 20, 2018 06:23 PM EDT
Updated: Jul 22, 2018 07:11 AM EDT
CLEARWATER, Fla. (WFLA) - Below is the transcript of Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri's press conference Friday afternoon regarding the 'Stand Your Ground' shooting on Thursday, July 19, 2018 in Clearwater.

I'll start by saying this before we go through the facts of this. I'm a big believer in this adage that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. This case may be an example of that. Nonetheless, we don't build it, we just sail it. What I mean by that is: I don't make the law, I enforce the law.

And I have to apply the facts of every situation to the law, as the legislature has passed it, and as the governor has signed bills enacting it. And the law in the state of Florida today is that people have a right to stand their ground, and have a right to defend themselves, when they believe that they are in harm. So we’ll talk more about that. But that’s against the backdrop that this situation has to be evaluated, and has to be considered.

So, at about 3:30 yesterday afternoon [July 19, 2018], Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office responded to the Circle A convenience store at 1201 Sunset Point Road in Clearwater. What we know from the investigation is that Markeis McGlockton, who’s a 28-year-old African-American male, had arrived at the store with his girlfriend Britany Jacobs. Britany parked their car in a handicapped spot by the store. Markeis and his son, who’s 5 years old, went into the store.

Another person by the name of Michael Drejka, who’s 47 years old, white male, arrived at the store. He lives in the area, and was a frequent customer of the store. And somebody who others have said complained about people parking in the handicap spots. And he had an issue with people who illegally parked in handicapped spots at that store. So apparently, Drejka gets out of his car, and is checking around Jacob's car, and looking for handicapped decals or permits or anything that would authorize them to park where they did.

When he didn’t see that, he confronted Jacobs, and by all accounts, they got into a pretty significant yelling match. And there was no physical violence, there was no threats, but it was a disturbance. They were yelling at each other, and he was complaining about her parking in the handicapped spot.
[...]

 

[Wagtales10]

<modsnip> There is no transcript of what was argued, how can they say there was no "threats" Drejka got out of his car and stalked jacobs as she waited. HE CONFRONTED AND HARASSED HER

<no link to back up speculation>

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I

Per Sheriff (who is also an attorney) - "there was no threats":
WATCH: Pinellas County Sheriff says no charges for 'Stand Your Ground' shooter
they got into a pretty significant yelling match. And there was no physical violence, there was no threats, but it was a disturbance.

Posted this yesterday which has a lot of Q&A detail transcribed:

But who was yelling at whom? If I say something to you and you start yelling at me, does that give another person the right to attack me?

 

[Wagtales10]

I

But who was yelling at whom? If I say something to you and you start yelling at me, does that give another person the right to attack me?

It says Drejka got out of his car and started circling her car and harassing her because of a parking spot. That is very very aggressive behavior coming from an individual who resembles a big scary mass shooter.

 

[Audrey Horne]

Fortunately that isn't the law.

Oh yes it is.

Edited to add: It's so funny that you just did what I was speculating about. Whoa...it's getting really crazy but really bright in here.

 

[justchrissy47]

investigators took Engebos into custody at his home, after which he reportedly told them he “took her to the ground” because he was afraid she was going to attack him, Fox 6 reported.

She asked him to move his Walmart cart from behind her car. He dragged her by the hair, cops say

Good thing this older weak man didn't have a gun.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

It says Drejka got out of his car and started circling her car and harassing her because of a parking spot. That is very very aggressive behavior coming from an individual who resembles a big scary mass shooter.

LOL, it was less painful that the cowardly attack from behind that poor D suffered. It was self defense.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

investigators took Engebos into custody at his home, after which he reportedly told them he “took her to the ground” because he was afraid she was going to attack him, Fox 6 reported.

She asked him to move his Walmart cart from behind her car. He dragged her by the hair, cops say

Good thing this older weak man didn't have a gun.

At least he didn't violently slam her into the concrete like a coward in FL did to an older weaker man.

 

[Audrey Horne]

Facts are things. There is no requirement that hands be laid upon another. Markeis and/or his wife would have been within their rights to shoot the murderer in the face if they feared for theirs or the other's, or anyone's lives. Somehow, though, I think it would have gone differently, and some posters here would be arguing the exact opposite of what they're saying now, if the victims had in fact used a gun in self-defense against Drejka's assault.

 

[SeesSeas]

Family in Clearwater ‘stand your ground’ shooting hires Trayvon Martin attorney Ben Crump
Published: July 25, 2018
Updated: July 25, 2018 at 07:40 PM
The girlfriend of Markeis McGlockton, 28, who was shot dead outside a convenience store near Clearwater on Thursday by a man he pushed to the ground, has retained well-known civil rights attorney Ben Crump, the lawyer confirmed.
[...]
Crump plans to hold a Thursday morning news conference at the Pinellas County Justice Center to "demand an amendment to discriminatory Stand Your Ground laws and justice for Markeis McGlockton," according to a news release from his law firm.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Oh yes it is.

Edited to add: It's so funny that you just did what I was speculating about. Whoa...it's getting really crazy but really bright in here.

Yes and I anticipated your reaction.