FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse nightclub, Orlando, 12 June 2016 #2

[Ragamuffin]

LTP but WRT the blood donation issue - I'm English, living as a legal alien in the US. I donated many, many, pints back home, but I cannot donate blood or be an organ donor in the US. It's a fear of Creutzfeld-Yakov (sp?) or "Mad Cow Disease". Never mind that Mad Cow is in the US, never mind it's been 20 years since a UK case...just a matter of the Gov lagging WAY behind modern medicine.

 

[Magdalyn]

I haven't been following it all day, but earlier noon, I was surprised to read the news that LE said all the victims were killed by the murderer's assault rifle. How would they know that? Many bodies were still inside at that time, hadn't been removed. How would you know which weapon killed them w/o an autopsy? It just seems strange.

ETA: A man who lived across the street was just interviewed on CNN. He shared video he took of the LE assault. Reporter asked him if he heard LE talking to or negotiating with the killer. He said no, he didn't hear any communication between them.

May have been able to determine by examining the other gun that it had not been fired.

Wounds may externally appear significantly different as well.

 

[Dogface]

Makes me so sad that all the people wanting to come out and show support and lean on each other in this desperate time cannot do so. I'm sick of the people who think whatever screwed up agenda they support trumps the rights of others who just want to exist peacefully. Can people not just stay in their own freaking bubble? Like fill your own bubble with hatred if you wish, but I want to fill mine with love, puppies and rainbows. Burst your own bubble if you wish, but leave mine and everyone else's alone.

 

[Paige SC]

This had nothing to do with gays and everything to do with terrorism. Gays were the target THIS TIME, next time it could be any one of us. And there will be a next time. Nice to know the FBI interviewed the shooter twice and that he was on the 'watch' list. That sure turned out to be helpful [not.]

 

[bluesneakers]

Link please....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...or-introduced-just-calling-gays-EXECUTED.html

 

[Everyday Grace]

That was Cruz and Huckabee? Who was the pastor?

Kevin Swanson

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ted-cruz-a...te-preacher-kevin-swanson-was-mistake-1545908

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Link please....

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8544540.html

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[sonjay]

I am surprised that has not happened throughout the day today- and then the age of the victim matters ...............

I think some of the notions about the ex might be forgetting that mental illiness is a life long illiness. She IMO, would not have to have been in contact with him for 7 years and still be aware that he was suffering from mental illiness.

Not all mental illnesses are lifelong. Schizophrenia, for example, typically manifests between 16 and 30 years of age.

 

[bluesneakers]

This had nothing to do with gays and everything to do with terrorism. Gays were the target THIS TIME, next time it could be any one of us. And there will be a next time. Nice to know the FBI interviewed the shooter twice and that he was on the 'watch' list. That sure turned out to be helpful [not.]

If gays were the target how can you say it has nothing to do with gays? It has everything to do with gays. Gay bar, gay victims. They shouldn't be dismissed so easily, imo. We're discussing people who have often been victims and there's no reason to pretend this attack had nothing to do with straight up hate and homophobia no matter its original source.

JMO

 

[Strangeworld]

Respectfully BBM:

He called 911 just prior to his mass shooting and pledged allegiance to ISIS. He attached is terrorist act to ISIS/the Islamic religion himself. Nobody here did that for him.

Seems some don't want to believe him, however.

Exactly. His phone call is just such a powerful piece of information in all of this.

It doesn't mean he wasn't mentally ill, or had a steroid issue when he was previously married (as reported by his ex-wife in the press conference), or was an angry confused person, or someone totally lost and looked to any belief system that would give his life meaning. Noone lives in a bubble and there will always be other pieces to the puzzle, but ultimately he followed and acted on the beliefs of a group of people (ISIS) to express himself in such an horrific way.

Every attack like this feeds the ISIS beast - I have no doubt there are people in the community that are borderline ready to commit a similar act. We have had arrests as recently as last month in Australia - people likely planning attacks that fortunately were not seen to fruition.

 

[rsd1200]

Agree. The lone wolves are something else.

But would we consider Dylan Roof the church shooter a Klansmen?

Or was he just a nut job that had friends of other races while just hating a particular group more. Or better yet just having a bad day while hating everyone but chosed a specific setting to act upon?

I truly think that some lone people are not truly part of a group. But they will refer to a specific group when trying to justify why they killed whomever. Jmo.

I thought of Roof as one of those people who didn't really "fit" w/anything. I don't think he ever really felt he had a place and then, even though he had black friends, iirc, I think he stumbled across a white supremacist site and got to chatting and made online "friends". Extremist hate type groups are not going to just start out by telling you lets go kill some people. They suck in the ones like Roof, who, seemed like he just didn't fit anywhere. I think he had some learning difficulties too, so you take that and mesh that with preaching how certain races are probably the root cause of his problems, and he eventually starts to hate, and blames others for what's wrong in his life and, finally, goes off the rails. At the end of the day though, at the root of it all w/ the Lone Wolves, ISIS, Boko Haram, KKK, Black Nationalists, Skinheads, Neo Nazis, etc... is hate. I refuse to hate. I will not sink to their level. And I refuse to allow them to make me live in fear.

 

[LLC]

many people are stating their opinions (which is fine) very strongly, sounding as if their minds are made up about certain things that we still dont have enough information about.

i would caution against doing that, saying things like "this was NOT terrorism", "he was NOT mentally ill, he knew exactly what he was doing".

to me, those seem like the kinds of statements that will get you entrenched in a position and less willing to be open to changing your mind when more information comes out.

I said "he knew exactly what he was doing.." all the evidence supports that...

If suddenly someone says he was forced, abducted by aliens or in some trance, Ill eat my hat.

Calling him "mentally ill" is an insult to those who are actually mentally ill IMO.

 

[CARIIS]

They also screen the blood as well. One would hope that someone coming into to donate blood wouldn't lie when answering the questions but they definitely could. I believe it is the same reason they ask if you have traveled out of the country - somethings don't show up in testing right away. I saw a post on this - I'll try to find it - it explained in detail why this was done.

That is true for people who are donating for authentic reason. The blood banks that pay money for ones blood totally different thing

For plasma they can make a lot of money

 

[HMSHood]

The more I read about Omar Mateen, he is an injustice collector/injustice creator that harbored grudges for all his life. He would also be vicarious as terrorists are that. Most terrorists are injustice collectors, mainly vicarious injustice collectors.

On Wound Collectors
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors

Identifying The Next Mass Murderer—Before It’s Too Late
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ntifying-the-next-mass-murderer-it-s-too-late

The Dangerous Injustice Collector: Behaviors of Someone Who Never Forgets, Never Forgives, Never Lets Go, and Strikes Back!
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/vio.2014.1509

Psychology of Terrorism - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208552.PDF

Injustice collectors tend to be complainers as they always have some grievance. They are highly negative in nature. An example of an injustice who always complains.

Websleuth Radio Interview Of Tina Meier describing Lori Drew
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

At the 20:40 mark, Tina Meier's description of Lori Drew is what describes Syed Farook, Tamerlan and Dzokhar Tsarnaev, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, or Mohamed Atta. This would very likely apply to Omar Mateen. They are very unhappy and resentful as they are extremely envious of others. It is always about them as they are not pleasant people to be around. They are professional victims that rage at the world. They are perpetual victims and feel like society marginalizes them. They blame everyone else, but themselves.

WEB OF LIES: Deadly Cyberbullying Case of Missouri Teen Unravelled Tonight on ID (Video Preview)
http://tvruckus.com/2015/01/28/web-...-teen-unravelled-tonight-on-id-video-preview/

I have seen that show on Investigation Discovery. Tina Meier said that Lori Drew had problem fitting along with her daughter. Something you hear often with terrorists and rampage killers. This suggests injustice collectors have trouble fitting in. They said that about Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik, Kouachi Brothers, 9/11 Terrorists, Elliot Rodger, Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho, and Dylann Roof.

Insights into Isla Vista Shooter Elliot Rodger
http://www.independent.com/news/2014/may/24/insights-isla-vista-shooter-elliot-rodger/

 

[ClaireNC]

I haven't been following it all day, but earlier noon, I was surprised to read the news that LE said all the victims were killed by the murderer's assault rifle. How would they know that? Many bodies were still inside at that time, hadn't been removed. How would you know which weapon killed them w/o an autopsy? It just seems strange.

ETA: A man who lived across the street was just interviewed on CNN. He shared video he took of the LE assault. Reporter asked him if he heard LE talking to or negotiating with the killer. He said no, he didn't hear any communication between them.

I saw that video on CNN too. There very well might have been some innocent people hurt in that final LE assault. I wonder if that is part of why they are taking so long to remove the bodies still in the building. They are doing a thorough investigation, as they always do when LE officers are involved in a shooting. They might be documenting every little detail before they move people out.

 

[Betty P]

Pictures and backgrounds of named victims: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/gay-nightclub-massacre-these-are-the-victims.html

So sad, they were all so young. Their lives and futures ahead of them. RIP.


Quote from the linked article, from a former co-worker of the killer. I wonder whether his bigoted and violent attitude was somewhat commonplace among the people he worked with at this government contractor/security firm.

Daniel Gilroy, who worked with Mateen at the facility, told Florida Today that he was “unhinged and unstable. He talked of killing people." Gilroy added that he complained to G4S about Mateen’s odd, often bigoted, behavior—to no avail. Eventually, Mateen began stalking Gilroy, leaving him 30 or more text and phone messages per day. Gilroy eventually quit.

G4S has come under scrutiny in Florida in the past few years after some of its guards were found to be abusing children in facilities where the company provides security.

BBM

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...or-introduced-just-calling-gays-EXECUTED.html

So it was only the pastor talking the death-hate stuff. It's hard to say if anyone else attending would know beforehand what any other speaker is going to say. Not defending the pastor at all, of course.

Moo

 

[sonjay]

If gays were the target how can you say it has nothing to do with gays? It has everything to do with gays. Gay bar, gay victims. They shouldn't be dismissed so easily, imo. We're discussing people who have often been victims and there's no reason to pretend this attack had nothing to do with straight up hate and homophobia no matter its original source.

JMO

It was Latino night at the Pulse. Maybe he hated Latinos? Maybe he hated people who go to nightclubs, period. Maybe he hated people in Orlando. We don't know.

We do know that he himself said it was in the name of ISIS.

We can connect some dots and draw some inferences. We know that Islam calls for death to all gays, and this murderer identified with Islam. It was probably targeted specifically toward gay people, but we do not yet know that.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I think the overemphasis on the ISIS claim is overlooking an important fact:

It doesn't make Islam evil. It just means that evil organizations now have an easy tool to reach angry, mentally ill people who have access to assault rifles. And that tool is called the internet.

There's no fix for this kind of insanity, there's no fix for the basic human desire to believe in magic/religion/whatever, and there's definitely no stopping the internet now. Which means the only solution is to stop allowing people to have assault rifles.

<modsnip>
"JMO"

 

[Paige SC]

If gays were the target how can you say it has nothing to do with gays? It has everything to do with gays. Gay bar, gay victims. They shouldn't be dismissed so easily, imo. We're discussing people who have often been victims and there's no reason to pretend this attack had nothing to do with straight up hate and homophobia no matter its original source.

JMO

It's terrorism, not homophobia. I don't know how I can be any more succinct. Islamic terrorists kill non believers wherever they find them. Terrorism doesn't discriminate. It was a crime of opportunity, much like the Bataclan. This shooter wasn't on the FBI's watch list because he hated gay peoople, he was on the watch list because he was suspected of having links to ISIS.