FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse nightclub, Orlando, 12 June 2016 #2

[DexterMorgan]

many people are stating their opinions (which is fine) very strongly, sounding as if their minds are made up about certain things that we still dont have enough information about.

i would caution against doing that, saying things like "this was NOT terrorism", "he was NOT mentally ill, he knew exactly what he was doing".

to me, those seem like the kinds of statements that will get you entrenched in a position and less willing to be open to changing your mind when more information comes out.

Let's calm down. We can all change our minds as more come out.

It hasn't even been 24hrs since the shooting. Jmo.

We are all here to enjoy each others company and conversations and agree to disagree for the moments. Jmo.

No one wins a prize.

We are all WS family members that are debating during a Sunday cookout. Lol. Jmo.

But I understand and respect yours as well.

 

[THATchick1021]

Local (about 2 hours away) and following. Horrific. Praying for all those affected.

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[Mmaaix]

I am not impying anything. It has been what 18 hours, this is not a plane crash- why would it take so long to identify people.

Crass yes, but intact victims??


Oh fu$k MSNBC is doing a adapt a pet commerical where it (I turned if off) shows all these poor doggies that need a home


Tacky now IMO

I believe many other family members have been notified that are not on that list and most likely have asked LE not to release names until they have notified extended Family and friends. The reason I believe that is because I have searched several of the verified missing and different families have posted saying they have learned they are deceased and several have go fund me Acct for funerals, and these individuals names have yet to hit the public Or MSM


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[Strangeworld]

Something playing on my mind - he was there for a quite a few hours (or he left and came back, not sure?). Why did he wait until closing time? Is that when the most people are there? I get that at 9.30 it might be quieter, but would it have been busy at say midnight or 1am. Anyone have any ideas why he might have waited? Hesitation or is there a more practical reason?

 

[JanetElaine]

Let's say John goes to Mexico, falls in love with Juanita and he brings her back to America and marries her. Does Juanita become a citizen? They stay married for a period of time and then divorce. Now Juanita is here and she decides to marry Juan, a Mexican. Who is a citizen?

Assuming you meant John to be a US citizen, the only person that is a US citizen is John. If Juanita follows all correct procedures with all correct paperwork she can apply to become a US citizen after several years of marriage to John, depending on which visa route they take. If they then divorce she remains a US citizen. If she marries a foreigner he can follow all procedures from visa on, to apply for citizenship years down the road.

 

[Treelights]

Something playing on my mind - he was there for a quite a few hours (or he left and came back, not sure?). Why did he wait until closing time? Is that when the most people are there? I get that at 9.30 it might be quieter, but would it have been busy at say midnight or 1am. Anyone have any ideas why he might have waited? Hesitation or is there a more practical reason?

Good Questions!

 

[RickshawFan]

It's disappointing to note in this forum that homophobia is getting attributed to muslims. Islam is not the only religion that is intolerant of the LGBT community. In this country, it is very common to hear it from non-muslim folks who portray themselves as loyal to a higher being.

Isis targets many people who are different, including westerners in general. Any target might have been picked, but it was not. The LGBT community was targeted. This is not rare in the US. LGBT Americans—actually, the LGBT community around the world—are daily and explicitly singled out by millions of non-muslim Americans on a daily basis. This too is terrorism.

In the focus on Isis in the aftermath of this episode it is easy to forget that the LGBT community experiences terror and discrimination every day...from fellow Americans, many of whom style themselves as god-fearing religious practitioners.

So, let's not attach terrorism directed at LGBT folks to Isis or the islamic religion. Bigotry is common to many religions—and the non-religious—and is pervasive in the US.

Just sayin': I don't believe it's the policy of this board to allow individual religious beliefs to be disparaged or defended. It's very disappointing that specific religions—pro and con—are entering this discussion.

 

[passionflower]

I believe many other family members have been notified that are not on that list and most likely have asked LE not to release names until they have notified extended Family and friends. The reason I believe that is because I have searched several of the verified missing and different families have posted saying they have learned they are deceased and several have go fund me Acct for funerals, and these individuals names have yet to hit the public Or MSM


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business people traveling etc..........family needs notified before publishing? I'm thinking of all the victims in the hospital and the ones that will have PTSD from this.................so much sadness

 

[Treelights]

It is disappointing to note in this forum that homophobia is getting attributed to muslims. Islam is not the only religion that is intolerant of the LGBT community. In this country, it is very common to hear it from non-muslim folks who portray themselves as loyal to a higher being.

Isis targets many people who are different, including westerners in general. But LGBT Americans—actually, the LGBT community around the world—are explicitly singled out by millions of non-muslim Americans on a daily basis. This too is terrorism.

In the focus on Isis in the aftermath of this episode it is easy to forget that the LGBT community lives with this terror every day...from fellow Americans who style themselves as god-fearing religious practitioners.

So, let's not attach terrorism directed at LGBT folks to Isis or the islamic religion. Bigotry is common to many religions, and is pervasive in the US.

When he pledged allegiance to ISIS in the 911 call, that to me says it all.

IMOO.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Sorry if this is a repeat.

Warning Graphic : it is shooting caught on audio

At Least 50 Dead in Orlando Gay Club Shooting
At approximately 5 a.m., the SWAT team made the decision to rescue the hostages, officials said.

ABC NewsVerified account
‏@ABC
Recording captures moment SWAT team entered Orlando nightclub and exchanged fire with gunman http://abcn.ws/1UMol5l

[video=twitter;742171593590247430]https://twitter.com/ABC/status/742171593590247430[/video]

 

[Ragamuffin]

Would it be out of place for me to suggest we all spare a thought for those victims who had not "come out" to their families, who are now either dead, in hospital, or seen in the national news?

For whatever reason, this murderer targeted a gay club. Some of these victims were, perhaps, afraid of being exposed as gay.

To me, this further compounds the tragedy.

I hope with all my heart that any family affected in this way knows that their son or daughter loved them, and, in turn, they are still deserving of love. No matter what.

 

[Canaille]

Here is an article from a year or two ago about ISIS encouraging lone wolves.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/how-isis-uses-twitter-lone-wolves-carry-out-attacks-free-n353996

 

[passionflower]

Something playing on my mind - he was there for a quite a few hours (or he left and came back, not sure?). Why did he wait until closing time? Is that when the most people are there? I get that at 9.30 it might be quieter, but would it have been busy at say midnight or 1am. Anyone have any ideas why he might have waited? Hesitation or is there a more practical reason?

this reminds me of the man that left a Christmas party with co workers and then came back and murdered them..............

 

[sonjay]

It is disappointing to note in this forum that homophobia is getting attributed to muslims. Islam is not the only religion that is intolerant of the LGBT community. In this country, it is very common to hear it from non-muslim folks who portray themselves as loyal to a higher being.

Isis targets many people who are different, including westerners in general. But LGBT Americans—actually, the LGBT community around the world—are explicitly singled out by millions of non-muslim Americans on a daily basis. This too is terrorism.

In the focus on Isis in the aftermath of this episode it is easy to forget that the LGBT community lives with this terror every day...from fellow Americans who style themselves as god-fearing religious practitioners.

So, let's not attach terrorism directed at LGBT folks to Isis or the islamic religion. Bigotry is common to many religions, and is pervasive in the US.

Perhaps you can refresh my memory...... I can't recall which other religions call for the death of homosexuals, or which ones make a practice of beheading them and throwing them off buildings. I mean, I know there are other religions that consider homosexuality a sin, but I'm drawing a total blank on which religions actually kill gay people for being gay.

 

[al66pine]

I have a question for you all, if you marry a legal American and you're from a foreign country you become a citizen. What happens once you divorce, are you still a citizen? Say you are but you marry a foreigner does that person become a citizen? I seriously don't know.

By "marrying a legal American" do you mean a marrying a US citizen?
If so then person marrying US citizen may be eligible to become naturalized US citizen. Does not happen automatically.

from https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenshi...ralization/naturalization-spouses-us-citizens
"Naturalization for Spouses of U.S. Citizens
In general, you may qualify for naturalization under Section 319(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) if you

• Have been a permanent resident (green card holder) for at least 3 years
• Have been living in marital union with the same U.S. citizen spouse during such time
• Meet all other eligibility requirements under this section." <---bbm. More detail at link.

Once a naturalized US citizen, would remain so, even after divorce or spouse' death (unless/until renouncing US citizenship).
JM2cts, per links, could be wrong.

 

[CARIIS]

I agree. But what we need to recognise here is that he told LE, right before the shooting, this is why I did it. This is a first hand, first person explanation of why he did this. We don't have to wait for a letter, a blog, expert analysis or anything else. There's more than likely plenty of triggers, vulnerabilities, experiences, etc that contributed to him going out and getting the guns and attacking those poor innocent victims, on that particular night, at that particular location, but its black and white in terms of why HE said he did this. That's very powerful in understanding these types of attacks. Whether he was known by prominent ISIS leaders or not, HE acted in support of what ISIS is sprouting to the world.

Interesting post, I think this was such a closeted gay man, he did the 911 call to deflect (for his parents sake based on their beleifs) for his parents his true motive

homophobia - the key here is the fathers statement that he was wildly upset at the two guys kissing, and the drive "up" to what is a wildly popular gay club. The bar is neat, clean, pretty etc

 

[ClaireNC]

Its CNN! That is so wrong it is funny. INterviews today that he was seen inside the bar at 930 drinking. His car was parked about 300 feet from the front door. He had his gun in his car . At closing he went to his car.

My speculation here is he planed to murder a bunch of people as they were leaving the bar at closing, did not expect an armed guard, which is why he ended up running "into" the bar after the shooting started outside .

He sat there for hours and watched men kiss on each other, flirt with one another , dance together , etc and it fueled him and his final act IMO

just my hunches

This makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking along those same lines.

Anybody else get the feeling that there is a lot we are not being told about the timeline? It started at around 2:00 with a big round of gun fire, then ended at 5:00 when LE broke through the wall of the building with an armored vehicle. What happened in those three hours in between? Was he walking around shooting people for 3 hours? Hunting down hiding in the building? Was it quiet? Were they trying to negotiate?

Also they reported about an hour ago that they were still bringing bodies out of the building. Why is that taking so long? Sorry to be graphic, but this wasn't a bombing where there would be bits and pieces. These people died by gunshots, they would be mostly intact.

Anybody else noticing this stuff?

 

[bluesneakers]

Let's say John goes to Mexico, falls in love with Juanita and he brings her back to America and marries her. Does Juanita become a citizen? They stay married for a period of time and then divorce. Now Juanita is here and she decides to marry Juan, a Mexican. Who is a citizen?

John wouldn't be able to bring her back immediately, for one. Nothing about her status changes on the day they marry - it all depends on what they do after. They would have to do a lot of paperwork and pay money before she would get her PR status and be able to legally live in the USA. After years of being a permanent resident (aka green card holder) she could apply for citizenship if she chooses.

If she becomes a citizen and divorces John she could start the whole adventure over with someone else and it would begin the same way. Marry Juan, apply for PR status, etc. Eventually Juan might become a citizen.

Is there a particular question you're trying to ask? The paperwork involved is a nightmare. It's not as simple as get married and bingo, get a green card. (I wish!)

 

[Sonya610]

Something playing on my mind - he was there for a quite a few hours (or he left and came back, not sure?). Why did he wait until closing time? Is that when the most people are there? I get that at 9.30 it might be quieter, but would it have been busy at say midnight or 1am. Anyone have any ideas why he might have waited? Hesitation or is there a more practical reason?

The victims would likely be drunk/high and many would be getting a bit tired. The police are probably also busier at 2 am which could buy a bit of time.

 

[ArianeEmory]

After thinking about it all day, the only conclusion I can reach is that it's extremely sad that ours is a country where it's so easy for religion, mental illness and assault rifles to come together.

It takes all three for a mass shooting like this one to happen.