FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse nightclub, Orlando, 12 June 2016 #2

[rsd1200]

I don't know enough about the couter-terrorism laws and funding in the US - from what I've heard in the last 24 hours when he was investigated on the 2 occasions a few years ago, there wasn't enough evidence to keep his case active, but they said they don't officially close these cases, they just sit dormant/not actively worked on.

So does anyone know any of the following or what thoughts do you have as US citizens:

-is it possible that he was been actively monitored in ANY capacity, even though his case was dormant i.e. emails, social media postings

-do you think there should be more funding to enable the point above? Should anyone who is investigated then be monitored for the rest of their lives, or if not every person investigated, what should be the line drawn for those that should continue to be monitored indefinitely? Obviously the potential would be monitoring an extremely high number of people - raises issues of the financial cost but also US citizen rights?

-is there ever a time when a person's thoughts should justify an arrest i.e. I am going to xxxx and I am going to kill xxxx. Where does US law stand on expressing personal views versus an actual threat?


Thanks for anyone that can give any insight on this.

Just to address your final point on addressing personal views/threats:
This man, (Ted Nugent) was invited, by Congressman Steve Stockman, to join him in the House Chamber during President Obama’s State of the Union Address, after TN said/did this; “I was in Chicago and I said hey Obama, you might want to suck on one of these you punk; Obama, he’s a piece of *&^%, and I told him to suck on my machine gun,” Nugent screamed during a concert while brandishing two machine guns..." Now, if TN or SS lived in Russia, they'd probably have disappeared by now.

 

[karen in New York]

There are some family reports (CNN) that this person is bi-polar. If that is true and not on meds - you can't discount it as a factor. Bi-polar is a mental illness.

 

[kaen]

Again, his allegiance to ISIS on the 911 call speaks for itself. He called 911. He pledged allegiance to ISIS. By that I can use reasoning that it was HATE and it was his Terroristic Radical Beliefs.

IMOO.

My response is this: Yes, and, we can use his father's statements to bolster other arguments. Yes, and, we can use his statements to his father to bolster other arguments. It is not one thing or another. It may not be hate of ONE KIND. It may be HATE that is part of the woven fabric of his mind, HATE that emanates from more than one line of thinking. JMHO.

 

[ladygator]

Exactly. I read the Eddie Justice texts and he was alive at 2:39 but now he's on the deceased list so obviously the killer found him between those times. I'm confused by this.

This. Agree.

Good news! I'm glad that people are still donating today and hopefully the rest of the week.

Agree.

This makes me the most mad and sick. I love when people say "where were the good guys with guns?" Well obeying the law and not carrying their weapons into a gun-free zone where it is posted that you can't carry a gun. For the love of good things, stop with this comment (not you) and think about it before you type it out. Law abiding citizens who have CCP or personal guns purchased legally are just as vulnerable as the anti gun folks and those who don't own or carry a gun. IMO of course.

I agree

I hate that these horrible situations bring about debates and discussions on gun laws, terrorists and hate crimes that target minorities or specific groups of people. I know it needs to be addressed, discussed and changes made but where do you even start with that? Close the boarders? Well that isn't going to help with terrorists already in the U.S. or people who convert to these beliefs.

IMO I think part of the problem (and I truly believe this) is the lack of rules and standards that were once in place that are slowly fading out. I'm not saying specifically that one group is right or wrong but the fact that we are now throwing all the rules out the window b/c it's offensive, sets us up for mass chaos. The fact that people are not wanting genders on birth certificates b/c the child is too young to identify with what gender he/she wants, is a problem. Not being able to label a Muslim terrorist a Muslim terrorist b/c it is offensive is a problem. Grouping all gun owners, Muslims and extreme thinkers together assuming guilt, is a problem. I don't have any idea what the solution is but I know that it has to start with obeying the law and rules that our generation of children wants to throw out b/c it's offensive to some. We (parents) raise our children with a set of rules and whey they are old enough to say they don't want to follow them, we just say "okay" so we don't get them upset. I think America needs to be upset, you can't save people and their lives by wishing bad away or sending love and positive thoughts to the bad guys. It just doesn't work like that. We have to be aware and prepared.
I am rambling so I apologize for the long post. I am still beside myself that this happened.

IMO IDK *shrug*

[h=1]Romano: The one question we've never answered about mass shootings[/h]"Why,'' my son asked, "does this keep happening?''

I had a dozen possible replies, but no real answer for him. And so, as I began driving toward Orlando and the scene of America's latest mass shooting Sunday morning, it occurred to me that it was the one question most of us never seem to agree on.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...e-never-answered-about-mass-shootings/2281399

 

[Elley Mae]

Again, his allegiance to ISIS on the 911 call speaks for itself. He called 911. He pledged allegiance to ISIS. By that I can use reasoning that it was HATE and it was his Terroristic Radical Beliefs.

IMOO.

He not only called 911, he called in the middle of the massacre. That tells me he wanted LE to know why he did it. He pledged allegiance to isis.

 

[Sonya610]

Can you explain why 10 Muslims nations that are not part of Isis, have laws calling for the death penalty for homosexuality?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/

Maybe rsd1200 needs to explain Sharia law to them to clear up any confusion.

 

[Renee110]

What do we need Homeland Security for if they can't act until someone has actually committed an act of terror?

 

[NSS]

This guy was on FBI radar in 2013 and in 2014 having a connection to a islamic terrorist in Syria yet he was able to buy guns! LOL. This was not looked into before this all happened because of "political correctness". Unbelievable, sick, pathetic whatever you want to call it.

He was able to buy guns because he had no criminal convictions, no mental illness history and displayed no mental illness and people can't be refused a gun purchase based on race, religion, who you know in Syria, being a homophobe, being a muslim....etc. etc etc. It's the American way.

He was determined a 'non risk' by the FBI. People can't be arrested/convicted/placed on watch lists based on their thoughts or opinions. Freedom of speech etc. It's the American way.

Political correctness is NOT the reason this guy was free to create carnage. The American constitution is the reason.

The right to bear arms, the right to practice any religion without persecution, freedom of speech etc.

Which part of your constitution are you willing to change?

 

[Sonya610]

[h=1]Romano: The one question we've never answered about mass shootings[/h]"Why,'' my son asked, "does this keep happening?''

Keep happening? Have there been other mass shootings at gay clubs? Maybe they should ask themselves why someone would be motivated to slaughter dozens of gay people.

 

[lstiff]

[h=1]Romano: The one question we've never answered about mass shootings[/h]"Why,'' my son asked, "does this keep happening?''

I had a dozen possible replies, but no real answer for him. And so, as I began driving toward Orlando and the scene of America's latest mass shooting Sunday morning, it occurred to me that it was the one question most of us never seem to agree on.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...e-never-answered-about-mass-shootings/2281399

Thank you!

 

[Elley Mae]

What do we need Homeland Security for if they can't act until someone has actually committed an act of terror?

Speaking of homeland security the security company omar worked for suscontracted for homeland security.

 

[popsicle]

He traveled to Saudi Arabia twice in the last 5 yrs per Fox News

 

[ladygator]

What do we need Homeland Security for if they can't act until someone has actually committed an act of terror?

The 'watch list' is a joke. Didn't deter this dude from anything!! He passed a background check to legally obtain a gun and had a security license too. Even worked with kids as a guard at a juvi hall. Heck, he could have been cop! (read that he wanted to be one)

Oh, they watched him alright. What did they do? Interview him and he said "No, I'm not a terrorist!"

 

[Elley Mae]

There is a article in the washington post, (can't link at moment) in high school he is reported by some classmates az cheering as the second plane hit the second tower.

 

[Matlacha]

Worked for a subsidiary of one of Homeland Security's largest contractors, and they wouldn't fire him for constantly making "unhinged" homophobic and racist comments:


http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/crime/2016/06/12/who-omar-mateen/85791280/

 

[nomoresorrow]

There is a article in the washington post, (can't link at moment) in high school he is reported by some classmates az cheering as the second plane hit the second tower.

Here's the link... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/06/13/on-911-omar-mateens-classmates-mourned-some-say-he-celebrated/?utm_term=.d7c32b9f8108

 

[CoolJ]

I think they need to change their recruiting campaign

 

[Renee110]

He traveled to Saudi Arabia twice in the last 5 yrs per Fox News

Yes.
2011 Travelled to Saudi Arabia
2012 Travelled to Saudi Arabia
2013 Investigated by FBI
2014 Investigated by FBI
2016 101 Victims

 

[scapa]

Keep happening? Have there been other mass shootings at gay clubs? Maybe they should ask themselves why someone would be motivated to slaughter dozens of gay people.

Keep happening = mass shootings in the US, from my reading.

The specifics of this particular mass shooting, and this particular mass shooter's motivations, are undoubtedly the focus of much discussion -- we've seen it here. Ultimately -- and this is IMO -- the motivation, since it needn't be and often isn't rational, may be a public focus without being necessarily an investigative one. Intervening in the process of acquiring means/opportunity to commit mass murder is likely to be more effective than realigning a motivation, despite the obvious importance of educating ourselves and our children out of a hatred for others.

Anyway, this has really shaken my family. It used to be that non-combatants were excluded from theatres of war. Now we are a theatre of war, it seems.

best,

s

 

[stmarysmead]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ

Here's a video of an Imam invited to speak at a mosque in Sanford Fla. on March 29,2016. He calls for death to Gays...it's "compassion, get rid of them now." Now why would a house of religion, of peace and tolerance, invite such a speaker? Surely this mosque does not support Isis! This is supposedly a mainstream house of Muslim jworship.

Why would there be any interest in hearing this odious pusher of hate and death? These are the things that worry and disturb people.