FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

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I definitely see the issue of the hospital being paid, but aren't we going on 2+ weeks now? Wouldn't the admission staff clear up insurance and billing with his next of kin? This is a son of what seems to be a pretty well off dentist, I can't see this as an issue of him being uninsured or anything.

Now, his condition is unclear for the most part, we are still getting mixed messages for that...at least from what I've seen lately. It just seems unusual they don't simply state he's not being released due him not being stable enough. Or maybe I missed that part.

Certainly, while he's more or less incapacitated, there's no threat here. But unless he's under police watch, there's not much preventing him from fleeing once he improves. I'm sure police are aware of this, but it definitely shouldn't be something taken lightly.

But again, just my thoughts here...

That's why LE is sticking the family with the bill. If he had been immediately arrested - or even arrested after he came out of his coma - the public at large would be footing the bill if he was under arrest. He's no threat to anyone tied up and guarded by LE, so there's no urgency to place him under arrested while there's a huge financial reason to not place him under arrest. His ongoing condition much of the time has been 'critical but stable,' which being 'stable' is not exactly a good thing in that context and certainly doesn't mean it would be cheap for the taxpayer if he fell under LE custody. You can't just take someone out of the hospital when they're in critical condition unless you are moving them to another hospital and mishandling the involuntarily removal of a critically ill patient could result in expensive litigation if not an expensive judgment as well if the person died in LE's custody...better waiting until he gets well on the family's dime than risking a $2 million Sandra Bland settlement.
 
I really thought how we vote, or even if we vote that we are supposed to be protected by the Constitution that it is a private thing. I am beginning to think the only thing private anymore is how many times a day a person goes to the bathroom! Not much else.

SOrry, but the NSA has satelittes that see throu roofs!!

Me too. Bugs me identity thief angle.

I would think the cop outside the door would get by with being there for the public's safety, since he is considered dangerous. And they could say also that Austin might need protection in his weakened state from somebody taking the law into their own hands and turning off his life support or just walking in and killing him!

That is what is so cool about this place. This post was one of those (there are many) where it is an aduible "hummmmmmmmmm - I never thought of that angle!"" This was like that. Lets say he never comes out nor dies when is the cutoff!! I would assume docs have some notion regarding prognosis
 
That's why LE is sticking the family with the bill. If he had been immediately arrested - or even arrested after he came out of his coma - the public at large would be footing the bill if he was under arrest. He's no threat to anyone tied up and guarded by LE, so there's no urgency to place him under arrested while there's a huge financial reason to not place him under arrest. His ongoing condition much of the time has been 'critical but stable,' which being 'stable' is not exactly a good thing in that context and certainly doesn't mean it would be cheap for the taxpayer if he fell under LE custody. You can't just take someone out of the hospital when they're in critical condition unless you are moving them to another hospital and mishandling the involuntarily removal of a critically ill patient could result in expensive litigation if not an expensive judgment as well if the person died in LE's custody...better waiting until he gets well on the family's dime than risking a $2 million Sandra Bland settlement.

I just saw the Bland settlemet too!

BUT the reality here is our justice system has nothing to do with guilt or innocnence. NOthing. We all know he did it. They have resources - hired the premiere lawyer in the area . This will go on for 5 years - nothing with justice.

One my colleagues husband was a judge. At dinners here is how justice works in AMerica.

Game rules: they all know each other personally . Judges, proscuters, public defenders, cops, attorneys. A lot of them vacation (yaughting seemed popular!) with thier kids on vacations. Their wives know each other and socialize and their children know each other. They are not adversaries. It is a game.

Its really like a football locker room. A lot of it has to do with male scoring a point if you know what I mean.

Just for ease I am going to call attorney Mr att -- going to call prosector Mr prosc-- going to call judge Mr jud

Here is how it works (disgusting to me)

Happy hour

All arrive first cocktail is small talk. Usually the wives *****ing about how the husbands dont notice the kids enought , and over in the husbands corner they are chatting about what they are in the doghouse for this week!

I dont think its a surpise I find upper lower case switching a issue- quotes are upper case - i wont use quote marks but this is basically dialog between one another at the table:

Mr procs=== So Mr att , I will give you life on Austin.

All at the table nod, their heads back, chuckle, sip thier cocktail

Mr Att ===laughs heardily and says to att you know there is no way I am taking that - my client has no previous criminal history (our Austin here is not our Austin charge wise)

chuckle around the table

Mr Judge pops in Guys you know you are sitting in front of William (another judge) he is not gonna play that game

another chuckle - another sip - bit of pause

Mr Att says to Mr J udge , I know I wish i was sitting in front of you I could get away with in front of you - maybe big chuckle smiles all around the table (The wives are chatting about the problem one of them is having with her maid!)



Now the scoreboard!

For the def attorney his victory is "not guilty". The more points of those he gets the better his billing hour

For the procextor No Contest is like a punt - and guilty is the touchdown

For the Judge their touchdown is getting a plea, over cocktails and steak - gets the case off the docket and everyone is AOk with the game

except the innocent.........

Then they can slide into their male bonding stuff. Man that was a brillant stategy on the Evans case, one closest to him slams him a couple of times on the back - chuckle chuckle

Man I thought Bob was gonna blow his gasket when you tried to pull that cr@p on the Smith case - hahahaha

Its basically who can get the most "points" as described above

IMO not justice - its a game

Think about it this high powered attoreney Austin has, KNOWS he stabbed two other human beings violent , nuched on another, and scarred another human for life

There is nothing to defend - she takes it . $$ Every career has ethics - but for a reason, except this system!!

I get it when it was desinged 200 years ago before cell phones and internet. ALl of us here have seen videotape of someone murdering someone , running over someone whatever. It can be in the system for years. The game proceeds.

That rape case where the rapist is out in three months -- give me a break -- talk about revcitimizing,

If we took the same case and put it in front of two different courtrooms there will be different outcomes

It turns into all sorts of legal stuff that has nothing to do with guilt or innocense at all

rant over

moo

PS: A lot of you will love these things. At the same time it is sleazy. Market research - sign up - the pay is awesome and its fascinating. Reason I am bringing that up - I have done like 4 court ones. They do focus groups , and present their case - then you get intense questionaires expalining how responded to this or that.

One of em did three juries - we deliberated for three hours! Every jury was different . It was about smoking and lung cancer - the mother sued for her daughter dying of lung cancer.Addiction based - they got her daughter addcited to nictine.

They ask you questions like did you find the def attorney or the prosecutor more authentic - explain in detail etc etc

It is big bussines. (Go online, find market research companies in your area and register!All kinds of em. One with coffee was two hours and gave you a $100 check. Cups with numbers on them sip write write write. Water . Sip write write.

One was watching a new sitcom - with a gadget in your hand and throughout you turned you dial related to how you were reacting to each character, the script etc.

Another was a RX company launching a new anti depresant and they present ad copy for it and we all got grilled on our reaction to the marketing material . Neat stuff!

They usually have folks behind a two way mirror watching. They tell you that. They are taking notes on the groups response to questions.

Point here is as far as legal system goes .............................................
 
LE can arrest him anytime they want, just they don't want to foot the bill for someone under constant medical care in critical condition. Once AH is under arrest, the public pays for his medical bills. It's not like he's going anywhere.

Exactly. Right now his (or his parents) insurance pays for his medical care. If he is arrested, tax payers will be paying his bills which could presumably be in the millions?
 
I definitely see the issue of the hospital being paid, but aren't we going on 2+ weeks now? Wouldn't the admission staff clear up insurance and billing with his next of kin? This is a son of what seems to be a pretty well off dentist, I can't see this as an issue of him being uninsured or anything.

Now, his condition is unclear for the most part, we are still getting mixed messages for that...at least from what I've seen lately. It just seems unusual they don't simply state he's not being released due him not being stable enough. Or maybe I missed that part.

Certainly, while he's more or less incapacitated, there's no threat here. But unless he's under police watch, there's not much preventing him from fleeing once he improves. I'm sure police are aware of this, but it definitely shouldn't be something taken lightly.

But again, just my thoughts here...

Insurance won't pay if he is under arrest.
 
http://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/cr...bing-crime-arrest-flakka-bath-salts/90506948/

MARTIN COUNTY — The 19-year-old Florida State University student accused of fatally stabbing a local couple in a seemingly random and unprovoked attack has remained hospitalized for more than a month after the Aug. 15 double slaying.
Austin Harrouff was still stable Friday but in critical condition at St. Mary's Medical Center in West Palm Beach, said sheriff's officials. He's accused of killing John Stevens III, 59, and Michelle Mishcon, 53, in the garage of their home on Southeast Kokomo Lane near Jupiter and Tequesta. Harrouff also is accused of biting Stevens in the face and abdomen during the attack.
 
That is Nico Gallo, the guy who jumped thru a window and attacked a woman and her son. They were not seriously injured. He was high on designer drugs and LSD. It was in the same county as AH.

What suprised me with these pics came out not a scratch - how does one dive through windows without a scratch- the only thing I came up with was speed through the glass was so fast....
 
Hmmm, yes. Perhaps LE is constrained from revealing more because their subject has not been arrested. Possibly, potential lawsuit? I feel sure they did not anticipate him being incapacitated for a month in the beginning.

That voter deal sounds bogus to me,

They can't release the toxicology results because he is not under arrest and therefore, it is not public record. If Detectives released the results now, a Judge would throw out that evidence during trial since Austin's medical records are protected under Hippa. Once he is arrested and it becomes evidence, they can release it.

ETA: I also think his lawyer and his parents know what his toxicology results say. I think the fact that they haven't gone to the media yelling from the rooftops that it has come back clean probably means they did detect some type of drug/s.
 
They can't release the toxicology results because he is not under arrest and therefore, it is not public record. If Detectives released the results now, a Judge would throw out that evidence during trial since Austin's medical records are protected under Hippa. Once he is arrested and it becomes evidence, they can release it.

ETA: I also think his lawyer and his parents know what his toxicology results say. I think the fact that they haven't gone to the media yelling from the rooftops that it has come back clean probably means they did detect some type of drug/s.

That helps make sense!
 
He's been off the breathing tube almost three weeks but still unable to speak. What the heck did he take that messed him up that bad? Any thoughts?
 
He's been off the breathing tube almost three weeks but still unable to speak. What the heck did he take that messed him up that bad? Any thoughts?

If he's having really bad liver failure, that can lead to esophageal and lung problems amongst other things. I think he has at least temporary brain injury, which also can happen with severe liver failure.
 
Hi CARIIS,

I appreciate and all of your posts and actually enjoy reading many of your lengthier ones...your 7:04 pm post was outstanding. Thanks.
 
I definitely see the issue of the hospital being paid, but aren't we going on 2+ weeks now? Wouldn't the admission staff clear up insurance and billing with his next of kin? This is a son of what seems to be a pretty well off dentist, I can't see this as an issue of him being uninsured or anything.

Now, his condition is unclear for the most part, we are still getting mixed messages for that...at least from what I've seen lately. It just seems unusual they don't simply state he's not being released due him not being stable enough. Or maybe I missed that part.

Certainly, while he's more or less incapacitated, there's no threat here. But unless he's under police watch, there's not much preventing him from fleeing once he improves. I'm sure police are aware of this, but it definitely shouldn't be something taken lightly.

But again, just my thoughts here...
Why would his next of kin be responsible? He's over 18. He's an adult. If he has medical insurance it will pay their part, but, other than that, unless AH has a stash of cash of his own, I'd say that'll be all (Unless next of kin is feeling generous.).
 
Why would his next of kin be responsible? He's over 18. He's an adult. If he has medical insurance it will pay their part, but, other than that, unless AH has a stash of cash of his own, I'd say that'll be all (Unless next of kin is feeling generous.).
Going to stick my head out here LOL!
I do think with his age he would legally be responsible for his own debt, unless dad signed to be responsible when he was admitted? I do think some companies will still pay with the patient being in school and under 21.
Just throwing my 2 cents worth here.
I do think though, IF one is arrested LE becomes responsible for the medical, which I doubt any of us desire. IF he lives, prosecution and housing him is going to be a whole bunch.
Rediculous really.

Sent from my VS810PP using Tapatalk
 
Why would his next of kin be responsible? He's over 18. He's an adult. If he has medical insurance it will pay their part, but, other than that, unless AH has a stash of cash of his own, I'd say that'll be all (Unless next of kin is feeling generous.).
Perhaps due to my locale I'm more accustomed to not for profit hospitals, but generally when I've had hospital visits, I'm admitted...I leave...a month or so later I get a bill for whatever my insurance didn't cover.

Now, walk in clinics on the other hand. I'll usually pay a copay up front or when I leave.

Admittedly, I've had few medical issues so maybe hospitals are shifting to instant electronic billing now versus the old paper claim methodology.

Either way, hopefully the kid pulls through and is held accountable for all of this.
 
They can't release the toxicology results because he is not under arrest and therefore, it is not public record. If Detectives released the results now, a Judge would throw out that evidence during trial since Austin's medical records are protected under Hippa. Once he is arrested and it becomes evidence, they can release it.

ETA: I also think his lawyer and his parents know what his toxicology results say. I think the fact that they haven't gone to the media yelling from the rooftops that it has come back clean probably means they did detect some type of drug/s.

I tend to agree with you, LolaMoon08, about the knowledge of the toxicology report. The only thing I can't figure out, is how it has been kept out of the media, if the result has been verified, but due to Hippa Laws and evidence in AH's trial, no one can say what the exact readings are/were.

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:
 
Perhaps due to my locale I'm more accustomed to not for profit hospitals, but generally when I've had hospital visits, I'm admitted...I leave...a month or so later I get a bill for whatever my insurance didn't cover.

Now, walk in clinics on the other hand. I'll usually pay a copay up front or when I leave.

Admittedly, I've had few medical issues so maybe hospitals are shifting to instant electronic billing now versus the old paper claim methodology.

Either way, hopefully the kid pulls through and is held accountable for all of this.

In reality, hospitals write off tons. They just move it to another column on their annuals. I think in the beginning that approach (dont arrest yet) made some sense. MOO -

[FONT=&amp]$39.3 billion

[/FONT]http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20120106/BLOGS01/301069983

....more than half of hospital bills don't get paid


I dont know if it is the govt THEY have to pay!! If the govt will have to pay the bill then this stance makes some sense.

I have wondered if the real reason, at this point, is they know he prob wont make it , out of vegative state, so why start the process.

I am not being insenstive, but if this is , in all liklihood, his functionality the rest of his life...........that would certainly translate to cant do a trial -

Docotrs would, at this point, have some sort of prognosis.

Dad probably should have held off retaining her until medical status was more clear moo


http://www.tennessean.com/story/mon...n-half-hospital-bills-dont-get-paid/81297202/

The facility I worked at years ago wrote off tons of pts- part of the business.

This guy will never have to worry about his credit scores !!
moo
 
Anything caustic on tender mucous membranes can cause irreversible damage. The soft tissue - mouth, throat, esophagus, stomach lining, sinus passages, can start to heal pretty quickly, but there can be an enormous amount of scar tissue. Other parts of the body may be helped by surgically removing scar tissue, but not mucous membranes. That would only cause more damage. Plus, there's probably a 99% chance his vocal cords are also damaged, and if he can talk at all, it will probably be a hoarse, scratchy sound. I feel it's pretty amazing that his lungs are not damaged to the point that he needs a trach. We also use our lungs to help filter and metabolize products. For example, if somebody has bronchitis, and you can smell the infection in their breath, it is because that is how the body tries to push the infection out of the lungs.
 
I tend to agree with you, LolaMoon08, about the knowledge of the toxicology report. The only thing I can't figure out, is how it has been kept out of the media, if the result has been verified, but due to Hippa Laws and evidence in AH's trial, no one can say what the exact readings are/were.

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:

The earlier post that until he is actually arrested, it is not in the public domain (unlike voting history!) cleared up a lot for me - in this arena.

I agree they know something - but in a way I wonder if what they know is that the lab does not know!

Then in a way ( since this has gone along so long) I ponder if LE really needs flaka - we know he murdered . WE want to know to put it in some context that we can absorb- but LE wise, if we think about it wont change anything.

He would still ( I think) be charged the same way. He is culpable if he was on bath salts or not?
 
And as far as hospitals go, there may be a few charity hospitals operating in the US, but I think they are probably state funded. The only one I can even think of is in Shreveport. Well, I have heard of a few in California. But from what I understand, they are not a good place to be if you are super sick.
 
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