FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #20

[telemag]

How do we explain the ping on Hoffner? It's not Dale if he is at Sr's home at 4:30 and who is driving the hummer and what about the body? Who texted "Waterford"? Did Sr know how to use her phone and text back? Would he know to answer "Waterford"? If not Sr. then who? It is easy to keep saying the same thing over and over, but once you sit down and look at this, not so easy to explain. I think Michelle left after dropping off the kids, and something happened after that Waterford text. I don't know if she met with foul play, but so far there is no evidence to say she is dead. So if and when they do find her body, I still can't get the time frame and pings to fit Dale and SOD, into this.

You can fill the condo with a bunch of people that day, but do we really think they all stood around with the kids and Dale killed Michelle in front of everyone and they all agreed to a cover up? Who would risk there own freedom? And what about cars parked out front for this party? There are small details you have to explain and tie up. JMO

Bern, you have done a great job in trying to piece this together and you have failed. :waitasec: No that is not a putdown but a compliment. I remember early on trying to do the same thing even when I thought Dale did this, but I couldn't get past how he did all this even if he had tons of time. I think that Waterford text was Michelle not wanting to give her brother a ride that day and she lied. Maybe her brother was in the habit of asking for rides and she didn't feel like it that day due to time constraints. I think this extremely important to the case because this would show Michelle being alive after she left Dale's.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I think there must have been an accomplice. I'd think he would want to get the hell away from the condo with any and all parties & evidence involved as quickly as possible. He must have known Michelle's routine pretty well and knew people would be looking for her (her son by 3:30 everyday). I believe this is why he is at his parents by 4:30. I'll bet the Hummer was gone instantly as well.

Jazz, your list for the accomplice's jobs looks pretty thorough. And pretty much in any order. I bet the ditching of the phone was the last thing on the list.

I agree if Sr or an accomplice were ALREADY at Jrs this would make the job MUCH easier. They could do what was needed and split ASAP. One takes Michelle the other takes phone, evidence, and Hummer? Now if Dale picked up his accomplice there wouldn't be any extra vehicles at Carter Glen. He then has somebody to drive Michelle's Hummer. That makes perfect sense!

So...my questions is: was it Sr? We KNOW Dale had plenty of motives for wanting to erase Michelle. What was Srs feelings toward Michelle? IMO from the video footage I've seen, he seems to be joking around a bit about her being gone...was he happy she was gone? It seems to me from what I've learned about this case that anyone that wrongs those Smiths ends up dead...Look what happened to wife #2 who was living with Sr at the time. Hmmm JMO but I like how you're thinking Sandina...Spot on!

 

[Jazzmaster]

One other thought: with 2 people the timeline gets extended SIGNIFICANTLY. The critical parts are getting Michelle out of the condo as soon as possible and hiding the Hummer.

All Dale has to do is sedate Michelle and get her into his vehicle (gagged and bound). Another person stays behind to strip the Hummer (in Dale's garage) and clean up any mess if one was made. Dale leaves to establish an alibi in his vehicle.

His accomplice drives the Hummer (with Michelle's phone) explaining how her phone could ping on Hoffner AND Dale could be arriving at his parents around the same time. Hummer is driven around with phone (until dark?) and Dale meets up with accomplice at some point or leaves his parents to go finish hiding Michelle. He then picks up accomplice who most likely lives where he established his alibi. JMO There are SO many ways Dale could have pulled this off and have way more than 72 minutes...

 

[Sparky]

Dale was named the sole suspect in this case. If the prosecution can not prove he did this alone then they certainly are not going to name another person. I find it incredulous that this whole thing is a conspiracy between Dale and his dad. There isn't even a motive. No, I do not think that not wanting to pay child support constitutes a motive in this case, him and millions of other people are in the same boat. Missing a couple child support payments doesn't mean you want to kill anyone. No doubt it's fun to play detective with these cases as this is what most of us on here are doing and it just may help solve a case, but <modsnip>people on here after 6 months can not come up with a single piece of proof or motive which IMO tells me that Dale could not have done this. I'm betting that LE has gone over all the phone records of many different people who might have been involved in this and by that I mean everyone not just people they think are involved although in this case Dale has been the only one so far named.

BBM

With all do respect I do not come on here to have fun. I am not attacking you, I am attacking the wording of your post. Michelle is a friend of mine and I don't find it fun to try and figure out what happened to her. I'm sure her family and friends and the people that have grown to love her don't think it's fun either.

 

[telemag]

BBM

With all do respect I do not come on here to have fun. I am not attacking you, I am attacking the wording of your post. Michelle was is a friend of mine and I don't find it fun to try and figure out what happened to her. I'm sure her family and friends and the people that have grown to love her don't think it's fun either.

Reread my post that you quoted, I said most. I did not know Michelle and feel bad for her and her family as I do the other thousands on here. I enjoy coming on here and trying to figure out what may have happened. I certainly don't come here because I hate it. The word SLEUTH is a synonym for private detective hence the name of this site. We are all here sleuthing. I don't think I deserved the insult at the end of your post. I meant no disrespect.

 

[Jazzmaster]

BBM

With all do respect I do not come on here to have fun. I am not attacking you, I am attacking the wording of your post. Michelle is a friend of mine and I don't find it fun to try and figure out what happened to her. I'm sure her family and friends and the people that have grown to love her don't think it's fun either.

Couldn't have said it better myself Sparky. Thanks again for starting this thread and for all you do! We are here for Michelle 100%. There is a reason this site is called "websleuths"! We want to use all of our collective resources to determine what happened to Michelle and who did it. Michelle is certainly missed by her family and loved ones and what's happened to Michelle is a PARENT'S WORST NIGHTMARE. I pray we find Michelle soon. We will turn over every rock and the truth will eventually come out (like Dale). JMO

 

[beach]

DROP IT!

STOP THE PERSONAL BICKERING NOW.

Time Outs are next. Out of patience here, folks.

 

[nursebeeme]

DROP IT!

STOP THE PERSONAL BICKERING NOW.

Time Outs are next. Out of patience here, folks.

I couldn't agree more..! Everyone is entitled to their opinion here.

 

[Analyze This]

To be fair, we are assuming a lot here. We don't know if anyone came forward to say they did or didn't see his dad there that day, or if the camera picked it up. I don't want people to think I am accusing Sr of anything. I am just looking at what theories have been thrown out there and one was his dad helped him. There is nothing that has been released to say he was involved at any level.

I can't see how this worked unless there were two people involved and I have no idea who would help with something like this. I also don't know if LE ever used dogs to check out his truck, because if he had her in that truck that long there would be most likey some indication of a decomposing body.

I think this was a tight fit and "froze" the kids, because I don't know where they were if this is how it went down. I also don't know if anyone came forward to say the hummer was past 4:00

I have been approaching this from the perspective that DS II acted alone until he arrived at his parent's house. It never made sense to me that he would leave the body or the Hummer at his condo for any length of time. It also doesn't make sense to me that he would have his father come to the condo. He's smart enough to know the cell phone would be used to track him.

I really think that he left the body in the back of his truck and used the 3:45 to 4:00pm time frame to hide the Hummer outside of the condo complex. I think that the Hummer left his condo and headed south. The original searches were concentrated in an area that was estimated to be one mile south of the condo, as was the first lake search. Why did law enforcement originally focus on those areas? Additionally, the original media reports said that the Hummer was last seen around 4pm at the intersection of Goldenrod and Lee Vista.

I am thinking that there were either cell phone pings or sightings that we haven't heard about. I am still working on the timing of this part of the events.

 

[Analyze This]

Ok, believe it or not, I just went outside to my car to re-enact Michelle's arrival to time it out with a stopwatch.

Drive in past neighbor's camera
Look bothways at stop sign
Pull Hummer around to side of Dale's condo
Put car in gear, turn off engine
Get out of car, put keys and phone in my pocket probably
Greet, say hi to Dale who's most likely coming out of condo by now
Unbuckle child from carseat in backseat, get child out of car seat and waited a bit for Dale to walk to other side of Hummer to get the other child
Put my child on ground (assuming child would walk into Dales condo)
As I walked towards door of condo I was wondering why I'd be entering the condo at all - not sure if that was customary for her to do so she may have been lured into condo)


This all took me less than 2 minutes.

Would anyone care to do another reenactment to see if they agree with mine?

Thanks for testing out our timeline!
I tried this myself, but I don't have kids so the Great Danes went for a ride. When I only drove around the block, they were not amused. It took me 3 minutes total, including clipping collars and leashes. I forgot one of the squeaky babies and had to go back for it because my boy was throwing a fit.

One of the things that I noticed is that I had at least 2 neighbors wave to me while I was out in the driveway. One was a lady walking her dog and the other was out getting his mail. Is DS II's neighborhood that kind of place? I didn't notice anyone out and about on the surveillance video, but there were a decent number of vehicles in the area, so people must've been home.

 

[Analyze This]

I think there must have been an accomplice. I'd think he would want to get the hell away from the condo with any and all parties & evidence involved as quickly as possible. He must have known Michelle's routine pretty well and knew people would be looking for her (her son by 3:30 everyday). I believe this is why he is at his parents by 4:30. I'll bet the Hummer was gone instantly as well.

Jazz, your list for the accomplice's jobs looks pretty thorough. And pretty much in any order. I bet the ditching of the phone was the last thing on the list.

I agree that he would want to get rid of the evidence as quickly as possible, while establishing an alibi. This is why I don't think that anyone was at the condo. If he had friends there, they could just as easily back up his story as they could lie about any other details of that afternoon. We haven't seen law enforcement focus on anyone, other than DS II and DS SR. So, I don't think that law enforcement has anything indicating that someone other than these two are involved.

 

[Kamille]

I also think it's possible that Michelle left the condo alive but knocked out. And I do believe in the possibility of an accomplice. I think that Jr had plenty of motive to want Michelle out of his and his childrens lives forever. And I think it was possible he was not alone in this thought. I also have to wonder how on earth his second wife, who was from NC, was divorcing him and going home to live with her family and then ended up living at Sr's place in Orlando within 3 weeks of moving home. How did that come about? And of course you have to wonder how Jr could have maintained his friendship with the person whom he told Einyroo was somewhat responsible for her death during a sexual encounter. I believe her family/friends indicated that she was not an excessive drug user and yet she was completely intoxicated the night of her death. Just seems odd to me.

And Jr told her that he wanted to kill them both and didn't want to live without her. Then he told Michelle her day was coming during an argument after she had left him. I see a possible pattern here.

Sr had an interest in the Josh Powell case based on a post to an online news article that appeared to be transferred to his FB account. Not sure how that works. He was probably unaware of that post on his FB because it didn't look like he used it much. Or maybe he was...who knows. Either way, it makes me take notice.

And I suggest looking up the Summer Inman case for another example of a family taking out a wife/daughter in law that was trying to leave.

Incapacitating Michelle and putting her in her own vehicle as a passenger is an easy solution to everything if there was an accomplice. I wouldn't even be surprised if someone got an idea from another famous Orlando case and chloroformed her. Pretty easy to sneak up behind someone with a chloroform soaked rag and put it over their face.

Had they been stopped by the police before reaching their final destination in which she may have been killed and disposed of, they could easily have said she was passed out and that they were taking her home to sleep it off. I have a hard time with the thought of someone driving around with a dead body in the car although in the case of an impulsive act I suppose that is also possible.

There are a multitude of different ways that this crime could have taken place. And the evidence seems to indicate that Michelle never left the condo of her own free will as she did not answer any texts or calls to her phone after arriving there so anything is possible IMO. But it still puts Jr at least as a prime suspect.

MOO

 

[Jazzmaster]

I have been approaching this from the perspective that DS II acted alone until he arrived at his parent's house. It never made sense to me that he would leave the body or the Hummer at his condo for any length of time. It also doesn't make sense to me that he would have his father come to the condo. He's smart enough to know the cell phone would be used to track him.

I really think that he left the body in the back of his truck and used the 3:45 to 4:00pm time frame to hide the Hummer outside of the condo complex. I think that the Hummer left his condo and headed south. The original searches were concentrated in an area that was estimated to be one mile south of the condo, as was the first lake search. Why did law enforcement originally focus on those areas? Additionally, the original media reports said that the Hummer was last seen around 4pm at the intersection of Goldenrod and Lee Vista.

I am thinking that there were either cell phone pings or sightings that we haven't heard about. I am still working on the timing of this part of the events.

I am not sold that he HAD to have an accomplice. It definitely would have made it MUCH easier to pull off. But let's face it, even though he was a dishonorably discharged Marine, he still had military training and has a criminal mind. He has those two things going for him...

IF planned properly THIS COULD still be pulled off in the time allotted with one person. I have driven the possible routes from Carter Glen to Rose along where the pings were and using the backroads (this avoids the tolls nearby and less traffic). You could take this route in approximately 20 to 25 minutes or a round trip in 40-50 minutes.

Didn't MN say Dale arrived at Rose "by" 4:30. Not "at 4:30" or "slightly before 4:30" or "just after 4:30" but rather "by 4:30". What if he arrived there much earlier (say around 4pm) and then had time to drive back home to clean up and get rid of evidence?

 

[Analyze This]

I am not sold that he HAD to have an accomplice. It definitely would have made it MUCH easier to pull off. But let's face it, even though he was a dishonorably discharged Marine, he still had military training and has a criminal mind. He has those two things going for him...

IF planned properly THIS COULD still be pulled off in the time allotted with one person. I have driven the possible routes from Carter Glen to Rose along where the pings were and using the backroads (this avoids the tolls nearby and less traffic). You could take this route in approximately 20 to 25 minutes or a round trip in 40-50 minutes.

Didn't MN say Dale arrived at Rose "by" 4:30. Not "at 4:30" or "slightly before 4:30" or "just after 4:30" but rather "by 4:30". What if he arrived there much earlier (say around 4pm) and then had time to drive back home to clean up and get rid of evidence?

Thanks for the information on the drive time. I need to go back and listen to MN's statements again because I am not entirely certain how he worded that phrase, but I also remember it as being "by 4:30".

Do you know if there are any construction sites around the condo area?

 

[telemag]

For Dale to kill Michelle on the day that People's Court aired he would be announcing himself as the killer. Dale came out on the winning end of that show anyway. On the other hand, was he setup?

 

[Jazzmaster]

Thanks for the information on the drive time. I need to go back and listen to MN's statements again because I am not entirely certain how he worded that phrase, but I also remember it as being "by 4:30".

Do you know if there are any construction sites around the condo area?

Goldenrod itself is fairly busy and lots of lights! As far as construction, I haven't really noticed any around the condo itself, but there's still plenty going on in FL...if one were say in the business of installing cabinets they'd probably know of some close by. What you will notice around where the condos are, there are plenty of woods and open land. Every time I drive through there I think Michelle could be ANYWHERE around here...

 

[Jazzmaster]

I also have to wonder how on earth his second wife, who was from NC, was divorcing him and going home to live with her family and then ended up living at Sr's place in Orlando within 3 weeks of moving home. How did that come about? And of course you have to wonder how Jr could have maintained his friendship with the person whom he told Einyroo was somewhat responsible for her death during a sexual encounter. I believe her family/friends indicated that she was not an excessive drug user and yet she was completely intoxicated the night of her death. Just seems odd to me.
MOO

You bring up a very interesting point that I never thought about Kamille, after reading the police report and how Dale threatened to kill her and then how she planned to move back to NC, HOW did she end up living with Sr. IF YOU were just nearly killed would you want to be anywhere near the person who threatened to kill you or his family/friends? Was she scared for her life/scared of running? Maybe some sort of psychological power the Smiths had over her?

I'm just trying to think what would bring her back. It seems she just escaped and then was sucked back in and dead not too long thereafter. It seems off to me too...thanks for bringing that up. Also from some of pics I have seen on FB IMO Dale is still friends with the person who was with her when she died. The one Einyroo said was somewhat responsible for her death during a sexual encounter. Maybe Dale did have this friend "help" her OD. JMO. From what I read on that case, this friend pulled the same "speak to my attorney" stunt as Dale and refused to answer follow up questions...hmmm makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

[Victory]

Goldenrod itself is fairly busy and lots of lights! As far as construction, I haven't really noticed any around the condo itself, but there's still plenty going on in FL...if one were say in the business of installing cabinets they'd probably know of some close by. What you will notice around where the condos are, there are plenty of woods and open land. Every time I drive through there I think Michelle could be ANYWHERE around here...

I fear and worry that, like Natalee Hollaway, Michelle will never be found. I DONT worry that Dale wont be brought to justice. Its only a matter of time for someone like Dale. Just like Joran van der Sloot, Dale will hurt someone again and be caught.

 

[Kamille]

For Dale to kill Michelle on the day that People's Court aired he would be announcing himself as the killer. Dale came out on the winning end of that show anyway. On the other hand, was he setup?

Why? I have yet to figure out why choosing that day if it was planned was such a red flag? If anything it seems to be working the opposite with most people. It seems like the perfect day. Michelle had television exposure that humiliated her and then she disappeared....one theory that's been floated. Or, DSJr would be an idiot to do something like this that day, it couldn't be him...another theory that's been floated.

But that was a day that Michelle was dropping off the children to him rather early. And he was home...not working. Did we ever find out if he went to work at all that day? If not, why not? And what was he doing that morning if he didn't?

MOO

 

[telemag]

Why? I have yet to figure out why choosing that day if it was planned was such a red flag? If anything it seems to be working the opposite with most people. It seems like the perfect day. Michelle had television exposure that humiliated her and then she disappeared....one theory that's been floated. Or, DSJr would be an idiot to do something like this that day, it couldn't be him...another theory that's been floated.

But that was a day that Michelle was dropping off the children to him rather early. And he was home...not working. Did we ever find out if he went to work at all that day? If not, why not? And what was he doing that morning if he didn't?

MOO

So you are suggesting that Dale planned it thinking that no one would believe he would do that on such an obvious day. Hmmmm pretty smart of him if true. So why was Michelle dropping of the kids so early that day?? She obviously knew why Dale was home early or maybe he was home early cause she asked him to be. This might bring a new twist to things. If Michelle was the reason why the kids were dropped off early and the reason Dale was there early at Michelle's request then why? Did she have something important to do? Also, When did she let Dale know that she wanted to come home early. This could give us more info as to whether this was planned. If Dale found out late then he had no time to plan this.

So either Dale planned it or Michelle changed plans and wanted to drop the kids off early? Lot s of things to consider.