FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

[captdj]

I'm trying to wrap my mind around it, but where's the demonstrable connection between appearing on a PC show and murder? Where's the demonstarable connection between wanting to be on TV, getting the proverbial 10 minutes of fame so to speak, a decision both DS and MP made together, and murder? Where's the demonstrable connection between acting and murder? Where's the demonstrable connection about wanting to be noticed and murder here? Perhaps some serial killer might be said to have a need to be noticed, but this killer clearly had no compulsion to be noticed, yes? It's not that he/she/they purposely left any clues behind ... right? Usually concealing evidence is not a sign of someone who needs to attract attention ... quite the opposite one might reasonably conclude. And since given the circumstances present at the time it's all but impossible for DS to have committed this crime alone, what about this phantom accomplice that gets thrown in every so often? Why would anyone risk many years in jail to help DS? What is the motive for a person who's otherwise innocent of a crime willfully risking maybe around a 15 years prison term to help DS cover up a murder? Friendship? May be in the movies, I doubt it in real life although strangest things have happened. And if so where's the evidence, even the flimsiest of one, that DS had anyone over his condo? If anything we have a video footage of MP arriving at the condo and there is no vehicle that can be established to have belonged to any of DS 's friends in in the driveway, is there? There is no account by the police that DS had company that day, whether a friend, a relative or whomever, and that is self evident by the fact that only DS was named as a suspect ... why? Because clearly there is no one else at or around the condo on that day other then DS, MP and the kids, that can be directly connected to the crime or that person would have been added to the list of suspects for the very same reason that DS had been.

JMO

Ok but you have to think also.... People kill loved ones every day....it happens and they get away with it more times than not.....

Its quite possible as a theory that DS got mad after arguing with Michelle and he didnt mean for her to die during their altercation.

We don't know how she died but you must considered all possibilities.

Another theory just minutes after leaving DS she could have stopped at Taco Bell around the corner for a coke and was car jacked and kidnapped .

There isn't enough evidence to prove what happened and its all the little things when added together makes it circumstantial but strange when told to most people.

 

[captdj]

How would anyone "come forward on dale's behalf"? You mean, provide him with an alibi? Swear to Dale's innocence? Wouldn't that be requesting proof of innocence after having assumed guilt by default? And how would they go about doing that if Dale was alone in his condo at the time of MP's arrival? Is it such a stretch to believe that people that live alone actually find themselves alone in their homes at any given time, PC episodes notwithstanding? We know that everyone that the Police could connect to this case has been interviewed at least once and how would the Police conduct interviews and collect statements either written or by video from people that have not come forward as having been at the condo at the time or haven't factually been proven to have been there? I don't think Houdini himself could have pulled that one off. How do we know DS was watching the PC episode when MP arrived? When was the PC episode in relation to MP's arrival at the condo? Why wasn't there any vehicle in his driveway if he had people over? Why have the Police not named anyone but DS as a suspect assuming he killed MP at the condo while having guest(s) over? If he had people over why aren't the twins aware of he/she/them? Specifically, if MP is dropping the kids off at Dale's and he's presumably watching the PC episode with a friend(s), where's the kids' recollection consistent with this particular theory? Now I have heard theories that have DS killing MP at his condo notwithstanding the kids being present there and to me very few things can possibly be more surreal than that, but ok ... whatever ... I guess stranger things can happen if one wants to believe something badly enough but how do the kids miss noticing other people in the condo under these circumstances? Unless one's inclined to believe that somehow two young eyewitnesses are practically complete unaware of just about anything going on right in front and around them. Specifically on this issue, which I believe to be crucial here, young kids such as the twins are certainly incapable of comprehending the subtleties of complex adult interactions, but they can surely pick up and be aware of general human moods, sounds (especially loud ones), faces, persons around them, behavioral manifestations (especially aggressive ones), physical and verbal altercations, screams, to name a few that might be pertinent in this case.

IMO

Me??? If I had an alibi a good alibi and I was treated by and portrayed in the media as Dale was....I'd tell it on GMA and get the person who was with me to speak up also.

Just think if it could have clear the air...

why not put the investigation on the right path?

again JMO

 

[Kamille]

To the best of my recollection, I don't believe that there were any independent witness who could place either DSJr or either of his parents at any particular location during the time frame in question. Perhaps the twins did provide some information but since we are not privy to it, we can only speculate on what, if anything, they may have been able to provide as far as who was where at what time. So it would seem that the three of them, DSJr, DSSr and TS are their own alibi witnesses.

Since all three of these people have a vested interest in the suspect status of DSJr, I'm not sure those alibi statements would hold up well during a trial. And the fact that LE did raid DSSr's home, complete with SWAT team would indicate to me that perhaps LE may not hold much faith in their statements either.

I suppose the twins have reached another milestone in their lives and have started school recently. Another occasion that they will not be able to share with their mother or maternal family.

MOO

 

[Thor]

What if they were asleep when she got there? When my kids were little I've picked them up a many a time sound asleep out of the car. They could have been carried in and been put straight down for a nap. What would they have remembered then? Regardless, I do believe it could have happened with them there and awake. If Dale and Michelle argued often in front of them, then they would have been used to the bickering. They could have been in their rooms and only heard something and then mom "left". Yes, it's all theory, but that's all I can offer at this point and I believe theory after theory needs to be proposed until something strikes a nerve or rings a bell or SOMETHING in order for the case to move forward.

Regardless of agreeing or not, I want conversation for Michelle's sake. Chatter keeps the thread going. NGU.

Yes Cblewife, we've dealt with "what ifs" for two years, and this particular issue has been litigated many times before together with everything else, and that is why I've said consistently lately that there's need for a change of plan or this crime will be relegated to the dustbin of unresolved cases.

The thing is that people's frustrations here, including mine, is the lack of information about this case, basically we don't know much more (if anything) then we did at the very beginning, and after two years this situation has become unsustainable either by the point of view of having a productive discussion on the issues or in the beliefs of many that this case will be resolved in any foreseeable future, and that is why most of us have dropped off this thread. This is self evident.

Now, what is even more frustrating if not downright infuriating, is the understanding that there is virtually nothing that we can do to change the trajectory of this case, unless some of us here have the opportunity and the willingness to effect changes, and quite frankly, I sincerely doubt that there have been instances that public forces have succeed in effecting the outcome of cases that have lingered for such a long period of time, however I don't know the facts here and therefore I can't really make a prediction much less a judgement on the feasibility of this or that in this regard.

So what's next? We know that the family of Michelle is attempting a wrongful death suit against DS, clearly they're not sitting around to wait for the police to solve this case, and as strategy goes this must be a good one to implement in order to achieve a break in the status quo. While it's arguable whether this will succeed or not, the overall idea is a sound one not so much where proving DS's guilt is the objective, but to at least stir things up and re-capture media interests which are important factors here for obvious reasons.

On the other hand, I firmly believe that it's crucial here the we hold the Police accountable for their effectiveness, methods and competency, and that is not to prosecute the Police or to assign blame for it's own sake, but because the Police, like any other public servants, must be accountable for what they do, have done and most importantly will do in the future. If that is not the case in issues of public safety where crime prevention and prosecution are the issues then I have no idea what other areas in the public sphere that would be (true).

Specifically, it must be clear to everyone that after two years this case is getting colder and colder by the day and there's something wrong in my opinion when the Police is allowed to explain it all by the label of "an ongoing investigation". To be sure every murder case must be an "ongoing investigation" since there is no statute of limitation on murder. That being understood, after all this time, this investigation is ongoing only from a technical point of view while from a practical one (the one that counts) resource are surely been diverted to more current cases that have a better chance of being resolved, of this I have no doubt about, after all the Police are interested in the rate of cases solved, as one indication of their competency and effectiveness, however when the measures of competency come only from within then there's a real potential for numbers to be played around, statistics to be interfered with, and methods to continue on being implemented regardless of whether or not there might be real questions pertinent to their effectiveness. That is why external forces, those especially comprised of local citizenry and media outlets must play an important role in essentially policing the Police and that is crucial not because we want to argue for it's own sake, but because there is no such thing as a human institution that cannot be improved, and when it's a natural human trait to want to shift blame, deny incompetency, avoid responsibilities, and overall avoid scrutiny, if we let it stand will do so at our own peril.

Now, I do understand that speeches alone of any sort do not solve issues, but they're a necessary starting points to gather awareness and consensus where public action is the issue, and specifically in the case of Michelle, local public action would be consequential if not altogether clear in terms of effectiveness, and that is a topic I'd be interested on where this case is concerned.

Totally, completely and unequivocally my sole personal opinions.

 

[Thor]

To the best of my recollection, I don't believe that there were any independent witness who could place either DSJr or either of his parents at any particular location during the time frame in question. Perhaps the twins did provide some information but since we are not privy to it, we can only speculate on what, if anything, they may have been able to provide as far as who was where at what time. So it would seem that the three of them, DSJr, DSSr and TS are their own alibi witnesses.

Since all three of these people have a vested interest in the suspect status of DSJr, I'm not sure those alibi statements would hold up well during a trial. And the fact that LE did raid DSSr's home, complete with SWAT team would indicate to me that perhaps LE may not hold much faith in their statements either.

I suppose the twins have reached another milestone in their lives and have started school recently. Another occasion that they will not be able to share with their mother or maternal family.

MOO

The Police needed culpatory evidence, that is why they'd examined DS's world as it unfolded on the day of the disappearance so intensely. DS needed exculpatory evidence to stop that very same scrutiny. Clearly neither side got what they wanted and/or expected to find and to prove.

JMO

 

[Thor]

Me??? If I had an alibi a good alibi and I was treated by and portrayed in the media as Dale was....I'd tell it on GMA and get the person who was with me to speak up also.

Just think if it could have clear the air...

why not put the investigation on the right path?

again JMO

How would DS "... put the investigation on the right path" assuming he's innocent and he had no one over to provide him with an alibi? And if he's guilty, why would he want to do that anyway? In either case DS is doing what is to be accepted under the circumstances, won't you agree?

The following is the case here and what makes this case probably unique in its own right:

We have an individual with an history of violence, albeit not one as dramatic as many others and stemming from younger years, still ...., his ex-girlfriend disappears on the very same day where an episode of them fighting each other is broadcasted on national TV, and surprise surprise, he's the last known person to have seen her alive, moreover he happens to have no clear alibi, and most probably has no convincing account of his whereabouts during crucial times in the disappearance. Under these circumstances, no matter how you look at it, either statistically or intuitively, one would need to bet on his guilt, no if, no and and no but ....

... BUT, after close scrutiny things clearly begin not to add up where his guilt is the issue, and that is not so much that physical evidence are not found that clearly indicate his culpability, however significant that might be in terms of an actual trial, but that they almost surely should've been there under the circumstances that must have been present assuming the crime scene is the condo and that DS is the perp, that IMO is even more devastating from a prosecutorial standpoint.

So what then? ... Then you have a very peculiar situation ... it walks like duck, it sounds like a duck ... but wait ... it doesn't look like a duck the closer you get to it, and that in my opinion is the quandary here, one of enormous significance in the overall particulars of this case. You have a totally justified strong emotional and statistical pull in one direction (especially in terms of probability) and an equally evidentiary pull in the opposite direction, so you need a tie breaker of sort but one is not expected to materialize in any foreseeable future and possibly not at all. That is the difficulty this case presents no matter what side of this debate one is inclined to be on (if any).

 

[captdj]

How would DS "... put the investigation on the right path" assuming he's innocent and he had no one over to provide him with an alibi? And if he's guilty, why would he want to do that anyway? In either case DS is doing what is to be accepted under the circumstances, won't you agree?

The following is the case here and what makes this case probably unique in its own right:

We have an individual with an history of violence, albeit not one as dramatic as many others and stemming from younger years, still ...., his ex-girlfriend disappears on the very same day where an episode of them fighting each other is broadcasted on national TV, and surprise surprise, he's the last known person to have seen her alive, moreover he happens to have no clear alibi, and most probably has no convincing account of his whereabouts during crucial times in the disappearance. Under these circumstances, no matter how you look at it, either statistically or intuitively, one would need to bet on his guilt, no if, no and and no but ....

... BUT, after close scrutiny things clearly begin not to add up where his guilt is the issue, and that is not so much that physical evidence are not found that clearly indicate his culpability, however significant that might be in terms of an actual trial, but that they almost surely should've been there under the circumstances that must have been present assuming the crime scene is the condo and that DS is the perp, that IMO is even more devastating from a prosecutorial standpoint.

So what then? ... Then you have a very peculiar situation ... it walks like duck, it sounds like a duck ... but wait ... it doesn't look like a duck the closer you get to it, and that in my opinion is the quandary here, one of enormous significance in the overall particulars of this case. You have a totally justified strong emotional and statistical pull in one direction (especially in terms of probability) and an equally evidentiary pull in the opposite direction, so you need a tie breaker of sort but one is not expected to materialize in any foreseeable future and possibly not at all. That is the difficulty this case presents no matter what side of this debate one is inclined to be on (if any).

Usually taking a lie detector test helps....and of course maybe a correct timeline of your events would also help. It just seems to me if I'm innocent and the person missing was someone I cared for...I'd do whatever it took to clear myself so LE could focus more energy in other directions.

My memory is fading and I don't remember if Dale jr did this.

A lot of time and energy has been focused his direction ...too bad if he is innocent and could have been used elsewhere.

Again jmo if innocent and he was vocal with details and no so secretive about that night....he must not be remembered as the person who was the named suspect in Michelle Parker's case.

Until Michelle is found...or someone confesses.....we wait....jmo

 

[Thor]

Usually taking a lie detector test helps....and of course maybe a correct timeline of your events would also help. It just seems to me if I'm innocent and the person missing was someone I cared for...I'd do whatever it took to clear myself so LE could focus more energy in other directions.

My memory is fading and I don't remember if Dale jr did this.

A lot of time and energy has been focused his direction ...too bad if he is innocent and could have been used elsewhere.

Again jmo if innocent and he was vocal with details and no so secretive about that night....he must not be remembered as the person who was the named suspect in Michelle Parker's case.

Until Michelle is found...or someone confesses.....we wait....jmo

From a practical standpoint, I'm not sure that if anyone is named as a suspect ... the only suspect in a murder investigation, or if one feels that one has a potential criminal liability, justified or not, their worries are what the public will remember them for (the public has a notorious short memory), I think that the overwhelming compulsion is in this case to protect oneself from prosecution and conviction, I believe when all said and done most reasonable people would choose to take that same position should they find themselves in such situations. Now I don't know what transpired between DS and the Police, we know he gave more then one interview to them but we have no official transcript to examine or any detailed accounts from both sides, therefore it's impossible for me to evaluate what kind of cooperation or lack thereof DS offered, so there are no basis for me to have an opinion on this issue and one is after all not required of me either.

But let me leave you with this anecdotal story that happened recently to me. As a background to the story let me say that I'm in good terms both with the local Mayor and the Police chief, I've written checks to support my police department and I'm active politically on issues regarding my community ... that is to say I'm not pro criminality, actually I'm very much a law and order type of a person who's vested interest in having an effective police force albeit I'm also a constitutional advocate for civil liberties when the two may come at odds ... bla bla bla ... however last week I had the Police knock at my door and proceed very forcefully to accuse me of some wrong doing, not criminally mind you, but with potential civil liabilities. Not grasping exactly what was going on and not having a clear understanding of the issues involved, I got immediately on my cell to contact my attorney and proceeded on telling them very politely and respectfully that whatever matters were the issue on hand, they could not be conducted in front of my door while my neighbors were starting to gather to watch the unfolding scene and that I'd be willing to go to the police station where all questions should be directed to me while my attorney was present .... nevertheless next thing I know I'm accused of "impeding a police investigation" and get this ... I was threatened with arrest unless I cooperated and if I didn't, in their view, would mean that I had "things to hide" about x, y and z. Now, as I said, I'm not going to make statements to anyone who's accusing me of legal wrongdoings, either civil or criminal unless I know precisely what the issues are and certainly not before I have a clear understanding of my liabilities under the law and that my concern is first and foremost about my interests and that of my family as I interpret them, besides I was particularly taken back by the forcefulness of the interrogation I was being subjected to where even before I had said anything pertinent to the issues my words and my conduct were being related and commented on by one police officer on his cell phone in a matter that IMO was totally inconsistent with was transpiring at the moment, to be exact, situations were being misinterpreted, actions were being distorted, even words were being twisted, example: where I'd said "I will not comment at this time because I don't know what's going on" it was being related to "He's denying involvement" where I said "I will speak when my attorney is present and as soon as I'm summoned to the police station" was being changed to "He has no intention to cooperate" and so on. I then said to the officers that should they feel there was here probable cause to make an arrest they should do so, but if that was not the case that they should leave without further delay, and so they did (leave).

Subsequently the whole situation got cleared up and as it turned out there was a misunderstanding, the police did not have their facts straight and in a spirit of politeness, friendship, peace on earth and whatever good there's in this world, with apologized to each others and agreed to move on.

Now, I'm not going on here explaining how this particular incident has some parallel to the issue we were discussing, I believe you understand it exactly although that doesn't mean you'd agree with my conduct and would act the same under similar circumstances, but strictly speaking for myself, I do understand DS or any other persons who find themselves in legal jeopardy, that is of course not to condone murder by any stretch of the imagination, quite the contrary, or to make a moral case of any kind, or to say that people should not cooperate with the police when necessary and appropriate, they should, I was speaking strictly from a practical legal standpoint where the interests of the police and that of the defendants/suspects intersect and perhaps diverge, where justice is served from an adversarial process where warranted, which I believe to be fundamental to a free society and where the exercise of that very process, where lawful and legally ethical, is not in itself an indication of wrong doings or guilt by anyone involved in it.

JMO

 

[Kamille]

To the best of my knowledge DSJr was co-operative and allowed LE to enter his home, went for what I believe is 3 or 4 separate interviews and did everything that he felt was necessary to deal with the issue of Michelle being missing as far as LE were concerned. He did nothing for her family, his children or Michelle in helping to find her but he did co-operate with LE right up until the point he realized he was cornered. Most sociopaths would co-operate with LE at the outset because they believe they can outsmart anyone. (not making a diagnosis, just an observation)

Problem was he lied about events that afternoon. And LE could prove it. So he clammed up and refused to explain why the information that he so helpfully provided was inconsistent with the evidence. And refused to take a lie detector to bolster his "truth". Instead of working with LE to get the focus off of him so that his children might have a chance at getting their mother back, he chose to make sure this case would not move forward by hiding behind a lawyer and making himself look even more suspicious. And he did this because he IS the reason why his children will never see their mother again IMO. There is no other reason why he wouldn't have worked with LE to clear himself for the sake of his children if he was innocent. None.

IMO he thought he had everything covered. But as is usually the case, not everything was. Unfortunately he (and whomever may have helped him) had enough covered that, at present, a first degree murder charge cannot be laid. This is still an open case. Michelle and whatever evidence was hidden along with her is still out there somewhere. And DSJr will always be known as the PRIME SUSPECT in her disappearance and likely death. Unless he wants to actually go ahead with the civil trial and tell his version of events to that jury panel to clear his name. But I don't expect that to happen either.

MOO

 

[Thor]

I have spent many long hours in the last two years to make some sense to what happened to Michelle Parker, I've participated and continue to participate in these threads in the hope that at some point Michelle would be brought back home and those responsible for her death would be punished to the full extent of the law, I understand the feelings of outrage and horror many here express at the prospect that this case might remain unsolved and I'm as frustrated as anyone else about this very fact, I respect people's opinion because I know there's usually no particular person or faction who's absolutely right or absolutely wrong, I understand that the truth is almost always not black or white but many shades of gray, I believe that people's idea are as valid as mine and as I grow older I have less and less answer and more and more questions, I realize that my ignorance far outweighs my wisdom, but what I cannot make sense of (although I tried and then I tried some more) is how so many broad statements can be made without any evidence available on the public record to support them. I can deal with any ideas, whether I agree or not, I can engage in any discussions because I'm interested in what people have to say, but how does one have a discussion when facts and opinions are virtually indistinguishable from one another in terms of content and affirmations? I don't know.

But if the discussion must necessarily be about DS's being this monster who's certainly guilty, ok, but what about Michelle Parker? Why is it not the case that local people bend together in front of the Police station to demand justice for Michelle? Make the police accountable for their work. Are people organizing searches? Are people drawing together to make a difference, even a small one, is there a command structure to come up with new ideas that can be implemented to keep some resemblance of hope alive? Is the Police being asked to release information that at this point may arguably help in finding eyewitness, develop leads and whatever else I can't come up with right now but that you and she and them perhaps can? If one Dale Smith Junior is responsible for Michelle Parker then there is only one way not to let him get away with it, and in my book that is to find evidence of it and produce them not proclaim them has an edict from the magical land of Oz, because that being the case the curtain will inevitably fall and what is ... is, no matter how badly we'd like it to be something else for life sometimes is simply not fair and can only be changed by deeds not words. So what can we do to help find Michelle?

JMO

 

[Thor]

A few ideas ...

1. Make a true interactive website that incorporates a bb just like this one. People need to participate in real time ... a shared experience ... ideas, comments, messages, discussions, anything else that you might think of.

2. Create several kinds of YouTube videos, trying to arouse different emotions, anger, pity, hope, civic duty, fear, resentment, and put faces and locations in them, and yes DS as well, there is a legal way to do it but check with an attorney on how since state and local laws may differ. DS is a public figure and as such there are plenty of leeway where freedom of speech is concerned.

3. Make petitions about anything reasonable, make noises, complain about everything, especially the police, it doesn't need to be fair it needs to be effective. Petition the Mayor, the Chief of Police, the city counsel and anyone you can think of ... again it doesn't have to be fair it needs to be effective.

4. If you can gather enough people demonstrate for action in front of the police station, point fingers, complain, if it happened to Michelle it can happen to anyone, no one is safe, everyone has stake in it ... other females have disappeared in the area, is it a pattern? What is the police doing?

5. Create a public event for Michelle and other victims that have disappeared , invite the media, again complain and then complain some more, it doesn't need to be fair it needs to be effective.

6. Don't continuously attack DS, not everyone agrees with you and you risk creating sympathies where ordinarily there would be none, do not demonize DS, there is a way to get your point across without it, more polished, more effective, everyone is entitled to justice and people respond better to dignified appeals and thoughtful thinking, then personal attacks ... there is a way to appear fair and considered while delivering devastatingly effective accusations at least from a PR point of view.

7. Ask to meet the Police Chief personally, ask what resources are being spent on Michelle's case, don't accept general "feel good" statements, heartfelt sympathies or promises, demand answers now, it doesn't need to be fair it needs to be effective.

Are there other ideas? May be better then these ones? Maybe more practical? Anyone?

 

[flourish]

Usually taking a lie detector test helps....and of course maybe a correct timeline of your events would also help. It just seems to me if I'm innocent and the person missing was someone I cared for...I'd do whatever it took to clear myself so LE could focus more energy in other directions.

My memory is fading and I don't remember if Dale jr did this.

A lot of time and energy has been focused his direction ...too bad if he is innocent and could have been used elsewhere.

Again jmo if innocent and he was vocal with details and no so secretive about that night....he must not be remembered as the person who was the named suspect in Michelle Parker's case.

Until Michelle is found...or someone confesses.....we wait....jmo

One might think it's logical to volunteer for a ldt with the idea of "an innocent person has nothing to hide." However, I'd like to get a little hypothetical here. Let's assume all Dales are innocent in regards to Michelle's disappearance. Dale Jr is interviewed and answers honestly. He doesn't have anyone to confirm that Michelle left his condo safely, because he didn't want anyone with him to witness the humiliating PC episode. He likes attention paid to his abs, not to his more foolish moments and you never know how they're going to edit those things anyway.
Then the police publicly announced that Dale Jr is their prime suspect. He wants to clear his name and let the police find the true culprits right away. He knows the police have him in their sites, but he's innocent--what's he have to worry about? Oh right, there were some incidents in his past, but surely law enforcement won't just assume he's guilty in this case because of things that happened when he was just a young punk, will they?
So he decides to volunteer for a ldt. He knows it's not considered the best source of evidence...not even admissible in court either way, but it will go a long way to clearing his name...if not to law enforcement, who aren't bound to leave him alone if he passes, then to the court of public opinion, darn it!

He fails the polygraph. But but but how could this have happened? The police don't have any more evidence against him than they did before, but that's of little comfort at this point. And now public opinion is hopping and it isn't good--more people know who he is now because some local reporter caught wind of the ldt, so now there's no hiding AND everyone thinks he's guilty.

OR

He passes the ldt. "Yes!" he thinks. "Now everyone, police and public alike, will have to accept that they were wrong about me."
But the police aren't bound to take the ldt results as definitive of anything, and they still suspect him. After all, a new suspect didn't come along with the polygraph results. And uh oh, what? The public doesn't believe him either, even after the test results? Back to square one.

It doesn't always serve a person well to cooperate with a police investigation when they are the subject of said investigation. Innocent or not.

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 4

 

[Thor]

One might think it's logical to volunteer for a ldt with the idea of "an innocent person has nothing to hide." However, I'd like to get a little hypothetical here. Let's assume all Dales are innocent in regards to Michelle's disappearance. Dale Jr is interviewed and answers honestly. He doesn't have anyone to confirm that Michelle left his condo safely, because he didn't want anyone with him to witness the humiliating PC episode. He likes attention paid to his abs, not to his more foolish moments and you never know how they're going to edit those things anyway.
Then the police publicly announced that Dale Jr is their prime suspect. He wants to clear his name and let the police find the true culprits right away. He knows the police have him in their sites, but he's innocent--what's he have to worry about? Oh right, there were some incidents in his past, but surely law enforcement won't just assume he's guilty in this case because of things that happened when he was just a young punk, will they?
So he decides to volunteer for a ldt. He knows it's not considered the best source of evidence...not even admissible in court either way, but it will go a long way to clearing his name...if not to law enforcement, who aren't bound to leave him alone if he passes, then to the court of public opinion, darn it!

He fails the polygraph. But but but how could this have happened? The police don't have any more evidence against him than they did before, but that's of little comfort at this point. And now public opinion is hopping and it isn't good--more people know who he is now because some local reporter caught wind of the ldt, so now there's no hiding AND everyone thinks he's guilty.

OR

He passes the ldt. "Yes!" he thinks. "Now everyone, police and public alike, will have to accept that they were wrong about me."
But the police aren't bound to take the ldt results as definitive of anything, and they still suspect him. After all, a new suspect didn't come along with the polygraph results. And uh oh, what? The public doesn't believe him either, even after the test results? Back to square one.

It doesn't always serve a person well to cooperate with a police investigation when they are the subject of said investigation. Innocent or not.

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 4

"... He likes attention paid to his abs, not to his more foolish moments and you never know how they're going to edit those things anyway .." :floorlaugh:

It was getting a little stuffy in here ... thank you for the refreshing and colorful point of view ...

 

[Skully]

Thor has some very good ideas about things that could be done to help get the public and LE engaged in finding Michelle. I agree that vilifying DS and family will not work. LE searched and there wasn't anything solid to arrest him on, not ever a weapon that could have been used to hurt her.

I recently started looking at Google Earth, past and present to see if I could find any changes in the areas that would indicate a grave site in another case. Is it possible that we could divide up areas of interest and see if over the past 2 yrs there are any changes that would be a possible shallow grave? IDK, just thinking about the SK out west (can't remember his name) but LE was able to use Google Earth to find the graves he dug out in the dessert. Not the same thing, I know, but something we could do from our desk chairs.

 

[Thor]

Thor has some very good ideas about things that could be done to help get the public and LE engaged in finding Michelle. I agree that vilifying DS and family will not work. LE searched and there wasn't anything solid to arrest him on, not ever a weapon that could have been used to hurt her.

I recently started looking at Google Earth, past and present to see if I could find any changes in the areas that would indicate a grave site in another case. Is it possible that we could divide up areas of interest and see if over the past 2 yrs there are any changes that would be a possible shallow grave? IDK, just thinking about the SK out west (can't remember his name) but LE was able to use Google Earth to find the graves he dug out in the dessert. Not the same thing, I know, but something we could do from our desk chairs.

Great idea Skully, 1 person and one pc, 10 person and 10 pcs, 100 ... 1000 ... need a website that coordinates, directs and processes information ... information is the key, information is what lead to evidence, evidence is what gets results. Volunteers may go door to door ... pictures of faces ... vehicles ... have you seen them? When? How? Under what circumstances? how about cameras? Store, streets, traffic lights, highways ... ask the police ... have all possible video recordings been reviewed? Remember the Police is not infallible, no organization is and then there's the question of resources ... it's worth the try assuming available manpower. Go to stores with pictures and ask about purchased items especially unusual once, shovels, chemical solvents, tarps, weights, ropes ... may be a store clerk remembers something relevant. How about strangers in the area? Suspicious activities? Any known local sex offenders about the area? Has anyone seen anything strange? Out of the ordinary? Doesn't matter how insignificant it might appear. What other crimes were committed on and around Michelle's disappearance? If so, could there be a connection? And I could go on, and so could anyone else ... you're looking for that one piece of evidence that is going to break the case open ...that one thing that has been overlooked, that one thing that lead you to X and therefore gets you to Y and then may prove Z ...

Now I do understand that all of that it's easier said then done but IMO not impossible, there's such a thing as a first time for everything. It all starts from an effective command center the can acquire resources and direct them as needed. I believe that there might be a substantial number of people out there that could volunteer, each of them in a small way but together capable of making a difference, the trick is motivating people into believing they, personally, can make a difference by giving them a sense of worth, purpose and hope, and stuff like that can achieve truly amazing things.

 

[Skully]

I know property appraisers take photos often of the land and houses, so if you go to Google Earth and click on the little clock on the tool bar, you can go back in time. If there are no recent photos past 2011 of an area, you can compare it to one on the appraiser's site. Shallow graves tend to sink or leave a slight impression and the grass or foliage is different from the area around it. It is a huge endeavor but it may yield a spot to check out. I don't know where to begin. The condo doesn't seem like a place to look, but what about areas near where the Hummer was found, any properties owned by any POI, near where the last ping was, or where the bridge was that the phone was found under. All good areas. I will have to go back to the map and see what areas have been searched and points of interest. But time does change the surface of the ground, especially sandy ground, it sinks.

We need some kind of a grid on a map we can cross off as we check it out.

 

[Thor]

I know property appraisers take photos often of the land and houses, so if you go to Google Earth and click on the little clock on the tool bar, you can go back in time. If there are no recent photos past 2011 of an area, you can compare it to one on the appraiser's site. Shallow graves tend to sink or leave a slight impression and the grass or foliage is different from the area around it. It is a huge endeavor but it may yield a spot to check out. I don't know where to begin. The condo doesn't seem like a place to look, but what about areas near where the Hummer was found, any properties owned by any POI, near where the last ping was, or where the bridge was that the phone was found under. All good areas. I will have to go back to the map and see what areas have been searched and points of interest. But time does change the surface of the ground, especially sandy ground, it sinks.

We need some kind of a grid on a map we can cross off as we check it out.

Skully, as always you have very good ideas but I wonder what can be accomplished outside of a centrally organized effort. That is to say that in my experiences, nothing of consequence is usually accomplished when your right hand is not aware of what your left one is doing, that is even more acutely so when there may be many hands trying to do things at the same time, but enough with the figurative speech, I think you get my point ... and I have been looking to see if there's a place where such efforts are being coordinated and the only thing I could come up with is some status information on this case, comments on DS, and the progress of Bill 384, but nothing about what can people do to help find Michelle in terms of practical and quantifiable action and where those efforts could be directed and made use of efficiently. If you or anyone else do know of such place, then please let us know.

JMO

 

[Skully]

Skully, as always you have very good ideas but I wonder what can be accomplished outside of a centrally organized effort. That is to say that in my experiences, nothing of consequence is usually accomplished when your right hand is not aware of what your left one is doing, that is even more acutely so when there may be many hands trying to do things at the same time, but enough with the figurative speech, I think you get my point ... and I have been looking to see if there's a place where such efforts are being coordinated and the only thing I could come up with is some status information on this case, comments on DS, and the progress of Bill 384, but nothing about what can people do to help find Michelle in terms of practical and quantifiable action and where those efforts could be directed and made use of efficiently. If you or anyone else do know of such place, then please let us know.

JMO

I was thinking we would do it.......here. I am not good with Google maps, but I can maybe pick a location, print it out, grid it and then google each street or address and see if there are any notable changes in the areas I can visibly see. There was a thread here, somewhere, and a woman used google maps to help solve a case. She could see the POI in a restaurant with a person he said he wasn't with. She zoomed in and there he was, on the day he was supposed to be somewhere else. So I am always hopeful Thor, you know that. If we can't get it organized here, pm me and we can maybe figure it out on the sideline.

 

[Thor]

I was thinking we would do it.......here. I am not good with Google maps, but I can maybe pick a location, print it out, grid it and then google each street or address and see if there are any notable changes in the areas I can visibly see. There was a thread here, somewhere, and a woman used google maps to help solve a case. She could see the POI in a restaurant with a person he said he wasn't with. She zoomed in and there he was, on the day he was supposed to be somewhere else. So I am always hopeful Thor, you know that. If we can't get it organized here, pm me and we can maybe figure it out on the sideline.

Skully, I answered your PM but for some reason I get no confirmation of anything having been sent, I trust you got it though. As I said in the PM I remain skeptical of what can be accomplished outside of a coordinated effort but that is not to say that one should make the perfect the enemy of the good (so to speak). At this time we need people who can devote whatever time to look for Michelle in any way possible. Local ground assets are best situated for this task but anyone who's reading this post can make a difference in their own way from wherever they happen to be. Michelle did not disappear into thin air, she's possibly somewhere not far from her home and family and it's entirely possible if not likely that there are evidence of her whereabouts that have simply been missed. Particularly that which has been missed must be crucial here, the police simply don't have the resources to talk to everyone that was within the area where Michelle disappeared and therefore any effort to ask around, show pictures of faces and vehicles can potentially yield results, it's entirely possible that someone saw something but cannot put together the dots because there's no obvious connection in their minds. Any camera that are present in the area are also of interest, and as I said before it's not a giving that the Police has knowledge of them all let alone of their individual contents.

Somewhere between the time Michelle arrived at DS's and an undetermined time afterwards Michelle got abducted, and that is the premise which everyone probably agrees with, which means activities took place that are consistent with incapacitating and transporting a person or a body. More then one vehicle was probably used, we know this from the fact that the H3 was "clean", that is to say that no physical evidence of foul play were apparent inside the vehicle, and that in the calculus of probability is significant insofar as determining the mechanics of what happened that day, specifically that she probably got transported into another vehicle, so we're looking for any suspicions vehicle in the area at the time, very possibly a van or any other such type of vehicle that makes it easy to hide a person in it ... I know that there were countless numbers of such vehicles in the area, but where there any of them near the H3 at any point in time during the abduction? ... I mean vehicles that were in the vicinity of the H3 or at least within it's path? It's a needle in the haystack but clearly that is what it comes down to here, if this was as easy as following breadcrumbs to the path out this case would have been solved a long time ago. I could go on ... but other people may have better ideas ...

 

[Skully]

Do we have an exact address for where the Hummer was found? I need a numerical or the closest one to where it was left. If I go to the map that Texas Lil made, the google date is May 2011 and Google Earth reshot some of Orlando again in March of 2013. I am just curious as to what cars were in the lot, the area around it, has anything changed, that sort of thing. The map has lots of areas of interest, but no exact addresses. If anyone can help please post them.