FL FL - Sabrina Aisenberg, 5 months, Valrico, 24 Nov 1997
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ladygator
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Fireworks In Court Over Aisenberg Civil Suit
Posted September 11, 2006 by Vidisha Priyanka
http://tboblogs.com/index.php/newswire/category/D0/
http://www.sptimes.com/News2/Sabrina/default.shtml
Posted September 11, 2006 by Vidisha Priyanka
http://tboblogs.com/index.php/newswire/category/D0/
http://www.sptimes.com/News2/Sabrina/default.shtml
HollywoodBound
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I thought a couple of years ago I heard part of one of the tapes on the news. I know in one of the links posted above it indicates the tapes were not released so now I'm not sure if it was something else I heard. Does anyone have a link to hear any part of the tapes?
montana272
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I can only tell you from experience that you cannot believe everything you hear on the news. I don't think this statement is actually completely factual.
I would like to know how many of you on this board were ever victims of child abuse and or sexual abuse from a parent or a family member? It would be interesting to know of those people who believes that the Ramsey's and the Iisenberg's are innocent?
I am a victim of child abuse and sexual abuse. Physical abuse and mental abuse. Because I have experience with abusers, I have to say that abusers have a certain kind of radar about them. I have learned this from being around them. I have a sort of "six sense" about spotting these people. I once was indroduced to my Mothers new boyfriend who by the way she later married. When he came to greet me with a hug, a voice in my head said "this man is a child molester" Years later after my Mother had married him and they had a baby girl did those words come back to haunt me. he molested his own 2 1/2 year old daugher and sodomized her. I knew of him and he did not fool me one bit, but unfortunately fooled everyone else around him. He never paid for that crime, thou we tried. I knew that one day he would kill someone. I just knew it. My Mother divorced him and 19 years later he murdered his common law wife. I say this because people who victimized other people who hurt and sexually abuse them have very simular personality traits. This is like profiling. I personally feel the Ramseys and the Aisenbergs know more then what they claim. I knew that Karr was not the killer from the moment I heard of the full story. I also knew from the moment I saw Susan Smith on TV crying about her boys that she was guilty. I can spot a liar now very well. But you can't go by that, so I try and prove my feelings. Mr. Klass has been through this very thing. I respect his views about all others because he has personal experience in these matters as most of us have not. He also believes that the Ramseys and the Aisenbergs are hidding something. If you look at the Larry King interview with the Aisenberg's Mr. Klass corners them about Ms. Aisenberg's constantly changing her story about the day her baby disapeared. We may never know what happened but I can assure you Mr. Klass who has far more experience than any of us knows what is not right when it comes to these issues. All it is people is not a deep as you may think. It is purely common sense. Just plain common sense.
I have to say that NO ONE makes you look guilty. NO ONE. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It is a duck. These two family's the Aisneberg's and the Ramsey's Have acted guilty on their own.
None of these mentioned in this statement from below has anything revelent to their innocence at all. Any time a missing child is reported the Police get thousands and thousands of calls from all over the United States with people claiming to have seen the child. And we all know that is not possible for the child to have been seen in every state and by thousands of people. The woman at the airport carrying a child who was crying and pushing her away...oh come on LOL I have four children and they have all done that when they wanted down! LOL Sorry but nothing against you, but been there done that. Also a day or two after the Aisenberg's daughter was reported missing....Those two parents were smiling on national tv...now come on we all grieve differently but this is not grief at all. This alone doesn't mean anything but look at all the other things. What Mother goes into her childs room, sees the child missing and Instanty YELLS! kind of odd dont you think? The first thing you do is start to look in your other childrens room....to see if she is with them. My 4 year old was constantly stealing her brother from his bassinett. I would have to be a complete nut to see it empty and SCREAM right away. See what Mr. Klass has to say about this on the Larry King transcripts. If you are telling the truth your story never changes...if you lying it changes. Read for yourself:
KLAAS: The attention could only help these kinds of situations. If there is still a child out there and that child is still alive, people take a look at this picture, and hopefully it will bring the little girl home. I'm just not sure that that is the situation we are dealing with here. You know, Nancy was talking about some of the things leading up to discovery of Sabrina's disappearance and I would like to pick it up right at that point Larry.
Apparently, as I understand it, Marlene opened the baby's door into her bedroom saw the baby wasn't there, immediately screamed and peed her pants. There is something that doesn't work there for me. I would go and check the other children's room; I would ask around to see if anybody had seen the baby; I wouldn't just go into an immediate panic like that. I also have to ask and question the reason that Barry Cohen is still with them. If they have been cleared and they have nothing to hide, why does he still have to be there to answer questions?
KING: That's two questions -- let's ask the first. Marlene, why did you react so quickly?
M. AISENBERG: I reacted because, you have a five-month-old baby who can't -- cannot get out of the crib by herself, is only crawling and not walking, and we did check other two children's rooms. As a matter of fact, Steve went and woke Monica up, so William was...
KLAAS: No, you woke Steve up! You woke Steve up with your scream, Marlene! You are changing your story again.
M. AISENBERG: No, I'm not changing my story.
KLAAS: You woke him up with your scream, you are exactly changing your story.
KING: You were there; what happened?
S. AISENBERG: Marc, she is not changing her story. What you are doing is, you are confabulating the facts in your mind to try to make a sense or an order out of something...
KLAAS: Steve, she has said -- she said this on many television shows, Steve. She said she opened the door, the baby wasn't there, she screamed your name, woke you up, peed her pants, and...
M. AISENBERG: And then Steve ran and woke Monica up, and that is right, Steve ran and woke Monica up.
KLAAS: See? Your story is changing. As we speak, your story is changin
Montana
I would like to know how many of you on this board were ever victims of child abuse and or sexual abuse from a parent or a family member? It would be interesting to know of those people who believes that the Ramsey's and the Iisenberg's are innocent?
I am a victim of child abuse and sexual abuse. Physical abuse and mental abuse. Because I have experience with abusers, I have to say that abusers have a certain kind of radar about them. I have learned this from being around them. I have a sort of "six sense" about spotting these people. I once was indroduced to my Mothers new boyfriend who by the way she later married. When he came to greet me with a hug, a voice in my head said "this man is a child molester" Years later after my Mother had married him and they had a baby girl did those words come back to haunt me. he molested his own 2 1/2 year old daugher and sodomized her. I knew of him and he did not fool me one bit, but unfortunately fooled everyone else around him. He never paid for that crime, thou we tried. I knew that one day he would kill someone. I just knew it. My Mother divorced him and 19 years later he murdered his common law wife. I say this because people who victimized other people who hurt and sexually abuse them have very simular personality traits. This is like profiling. I personally feel the Ramseys and the Aisenbergs know more then what they claim. I knew that Karr was not the killer from the moment I heard of the full story. I also knew from the moment I saw Susan Smith on TV crying about her boys that she was guilty. I can spot a liar now very well. But you can't go by that, so I try and prove my feelings. Mr. Klass has been through this very thing. I respect his views about all others because he has personal experience in these matters as most of us have not. He also believes that the Ramseys and the Aisenbergs are hidding something. If you look at the Larry King interview with the Aisenberg's Mr. Klass corners them about Ms. Aisenberg's constantly changing her story about the day her baby disapeared. We may never know what happened but I can assure you Mr. Klass who has far more experience than any of us knows what is not right when it comes to these issues. All it is people is not a deep as you may think. It is purely common sense. Just plain common sense.
I have to say that NO ONE makes you look guilty. NO ONE. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It is a duck. These two family's the Aisneberg's and the Ramsey's Have acted guilty on their own.
None of these mentioned in this statement from below has anything revelent to their innocence at all. Any time a missing child is reported the Police get thousands and thousands of calls from all over the United States with people claiming to have seen the child. And we all know that is not possible for the child to have been seen in every state and by thousands of people. The woman at the airport carrying a child who was crying and pushing her away...oh come on LOL I have four children and they have all done that when they wanted down! LOL Sorry but nothing against you, but been there done that. Also a day or two after the Aisenberg's daughter was reported missing....Those two parents were smiling on national tv...now come on we all grieve differently but this is not grief at all. This alone doesn't mean anything but look at all the other things. What Mother goes into her childs room, sees the child missing and Instanty YELLS! kind of odd dont you think? The first thing you do is start to look in your other childrens room....to see if she is with them. My 4 year old was constantly stealing her brother from his bassinett. I would have to be a complete nut to see it empty and SCREAM right away. See what Mr. Klass has to say about this on the Larry King transcripts. If you are telling the truth your story never changes...if you lying it changes. Read for yourself:
KLAAS: The attention could only help these kinds of situations. If there is still a child out there and that child is still alive, people take a look at this picture, and hopefully it will bring the little girl home. I'm just not sure that that is the situation we are dealing with here. You know, Nancy was talking about some of the things leading up to discovery of Sabrina's disappearance and I would like to pick it up right at that point Larry.
Apparently, as I understand it, Marlene opened the baby's door into her bedroom saw the baby wasn't there, immediately screamed and peed her pants. There is something that doesn't work there for me. I would go and check the other children's room; I would ask around to see if anybody had seen the baby; I wouldn't just go into an immediate panic like that. I also have to ask and question the reason that Barry Cohen is still with them. If they have been cleared and they have nothing to hide, why does he still have to be there to answer questions?
KING: That's two questions -- let's ask the first. Marlene, why did you react so quickly?
M. AISENBERG: I reacted because, you have a five-month-old baby who can't -- cannot get out of the crib by herself, is only crawling and not walking, and we did check other two children's rooms. As a matter of fact, Steve went and woke Monica up, so William was...
KLAAS: No, you woke Steve up! You woke Steve up with your scream, Marlene! You are changing your story again.
M. AISENBERG: No, I'm not changing my story.
KLAAS: You woke him up with your scream, you are exactly changing your story.
KING: You were there; what happened?
S. AISENBERG: Marc, she is not changing her story. What you are doing is, you are confabulating the facts in your mind to try to make a sense or an order out of something...
KLAAS: Steve, she has said -- she said this on many television shows, Steve. She said she opened the door, the baby wasn't there, she screamed your name, woke you up, peed her pants, and...
M. AISENBERG: And then Steve ran and woke Monica up, and that is right, Steve ran and woke Monica up.
KLAAS: See? Your story is changing. As we speak, your story is changin
Montana
blueclouds said:
montana272
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lilsister said:
Even Ted Bundy passed a lie detector test. I heard that the Aisnebergs or one of them Failed TWO tests. They hired their own person to do the tests and then they passed. That is what I heard anyway.
montana272
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"It seems to me that it would be far easier to enter a residence and snatch a baby from its crib, than to try to take a baby from a hospital nursery --- and just think of all the security measures that have been put in place to try to prevent that."
Not really. There are a lot of people at a hospital, coming in and out going in and out. You don't recognize every single employee. Some you don't work with but some who have taken over other people's shifts...
Most kidnappers don't hang around the house after they kill the child or hang around to practice writting a ransom note to get just the right words for a ransom.
Not really. There are a lot of people at a hospital, coming in and out going in and out. You don't recognize every single employee. Some you don't work with but some who have taken over other people's shifts...
Most kidnappers don't hang around the house after they kill the child or hang around to practice writting a ransom note to get just the right words for a ransom.
montana272
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"However, transcripts and tapes in murder cases can sometimes turn out to not be the compelling evidence that Prosecutors portray them to be. A notable case in point is that of Steve and Marlene Aisenberg, a Florida couple whose baby Sabrina vanished without a trace back in 1997. Local Prosecutors were convinced the couple were responsible and obtained a Court order to wiretap the couples home. Lacking evidence to indict on murder charges, Federal Prosecutors picked up the case, indicting the Aisenbergs on charges of lying to Federal authorities. The news Media soon had transcripts of conversations between the couple that resulted in the American public vilifying the couple as responsible for the murder of their infant. However, once the actual tapes were scrutinized in Court by a Federal Judge, those snippets of conversations published in the Media could not be heard. The Judge then dismissed the charges and the Aisenbergs won a $2.9 million dollar settlement against the government for Court costs. Yep another article said that it was to pay legal fees. Is there some other article where they won money for someone "fabricating" a story and they won damages for defermation?????
From americanmafia.com
My question is did they win money "only to cover court costs"
It makes it sound like just the money to cover the court costs attorney fees from these allegations. It doesn't sound like they won extra money for defermation thou? I am confused.
On this case yes the media went nuts and should not have done that.
From americanmafia.com
My question is did they win money "only to cover court costs"
It makes it sound like just the money to cover the court costs attorney fees from these allegations. It doesn't sound like they won extra money for defermation thou? I am confused.
On this case yes the media went nuts and should not have done that.
HollywoodBound
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I don't understand why Klaas starts yelling 'No, you woke Steve up! You woke Steve up with your scream, Marlene! You are changing your story again.'
She didn't say that she didn't wake Steve up, all she said was Steve woke Monica up. At some point Steve gets up but that wasn't directly discussed.
She didn't say that she didn't wake Steve up, all she said was Steve woke Monica up. At some point Steve gets up but that wasn't directly discussed.
montana272 said:
montana272
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I think that was because when Mr. Klass had listen to them before, and that was what he was referring to, because you are right. What he is referring to is her past statements as he said before in that transcript. That he has heard the story before and that they did not mention waking up the kids at all to ask them if they had seen their sister. Then after people started asking why she just screamed and peed her pants instead of waking up her husband & kids to see if they had her. The second version of the story adds the waking up of the kids. That is my understanding, that they never said that before. I could be wrong but that is what my understanding was. Also, you would think that the scream if it woke up her husband, why the kids did not wake up from the scream....but then again when my kids were little nothing could wake them up! It is just sad because we will never know. I hope someday they find Sabrina but in my heart I don't think she is still with us. I really do not have anything concrete to believe that they did anything, but in my heart I think they did, and of course that isn't enough to convict, thank Goodness. You need proof. Without a body you will never have anything unless someone confesses. I will say this thou the media has a way of twisting things around. That is why I don't listen to much to what they say. I base my own decisions on listening to the parents, what they have to say and how they act when questions are asked.
christine2448
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I am a survivor. I don't have a clear cut answer here. I am on the fence in both of the cases mentioned. I just learned about Sabrina while watching A&E this weekend, so know very little about this case. In the Ramsey case I lean heavily towards the IDI theory. In this case, I was leaning heavily on the parents were NOT involved until in the show I heard about the tapes...now reading here, the tapes were not true? I'm still learning and reading. So now I just don't know. FWIW.montana272 said:
christine2448
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I have a 10 month old and a 13 yr old. If Braek (my 10 month old) was not in his crib, I would SCREAM for my older son and husband, if I thought he shoulda been there. No doubt, it would scare the bejesus outta me if he was not in his crib when I went to check on him. I would definitly lose it.montana272 said:
christine2448
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montana272 said:
If you are refering to the TV spot when they were getting in the car with one of the detectives, the detective had made a joke, trying to ease some of the tention, I think this is being too nit picky towards the parents. JMHO
Still Sabrina had been missing for only 24 hours when the "joke" was said. There ia absolutely nothing in the world that could make me smile if my baby had been kidnapped. I am a mother of a 2 year old girl and I would be absolutely hysterical if something happened to her. That giggle is suspicious, nothing should be making them smile this soon after a disappearance.
montana272
Great post, well written and thought out.
I do take exception with the Mark Klaas issue, though. I have the utmost respect for him---can't imagine the pain he has gone through. I admire that he has turned it into such a positive in the hopes of finding other children. You said he can "read" people. If that is the case, then I want to know why, in the very beginning of the Jessica Lunsford case, he was publicly suspect of Jessie's father, Mark? Hey, nothing bad on Klaas--LOTS of people were unjustly suspect of Mark Lunsford, for purely superficial reasons, BUT it does mean that Mr. Klaas doesn't know everything. I do not mean any disrespect towards Mr Klaas at all & I want that to be very clear,
so anyone reading please do take it as that.
Also, I think the VAST MAJORITY of people knew Susan Smith was lying immediately. There were no tears!! Never. Not one. Just the appearance of crying, but no tears. That's always a huge red flag.
Also, the part of waking up the kids has ALWAYS been a part of the Aisenberg story. Always. The 2.9 million dollar award was not just for court costs. I have heard that their win allowed them to purchase a new home outside of Florida and in their current state of residence.
I think that using a parents reaction as guilt in this case is a fundamental flaw in your guilt theory. While in the Ramsey case, sure--THEIR reaction can be debated. But immediately upon seeing the empty crib, Mrs. Aisenberg screamed. Now, that may not sit right with you, but it no doubt proves guilt. You said you wouldn't have screamed, but instead you would have checked your other childrens rooms because your 4 yr old often took the baby out of the bassinett. Sabrina wasn't in a bassinett. Sabrina was in a crib. My kids would never have taken their baby brother out of the crib because I instructed them not to because the baby could've very easily gotten hurt. A bassinett--sure, a child could take a baby out w/o injuring them. But the possibility of injuries is FAR greater when a very young child is attempting to remove a baby from a crib---therefore, my kids would've never taken their sibling out of the crib--it's not safe. I would scream if I saw the crib empty, no doubt.
Would you allow your 4 year old to remove your 5 month old infant from a crib? Not a bassinett as you stated earlier...but a crib.
Great post, well written and thought out.
I do take exception with the Mark Klaas issue, though. I have the utmost respect for him---can't imagine the pain he has gone through. I admire that he has turned it into such a positive in the hopes of finding other children. You said he can "read" people. If that is the case, then I want to know why, in the very beginning of the Jessica Lunsford case, he was publicly suspect of Jessie's father, Mark? Hey, nothing bad on Klaas--LOTS of people were unjustly suspect of Mark Lunsford, for purely superficial reasons, BUT it does mean that Mr. Klaas doesn't know everything. I do not mean any disrespect towards Mr Klaas at all & I want that to be very clear,
so anyone reading please do take it as that.
Also, I think the VAST MAJORITY of people knew Susan Smith was lying immediately. There were no tears!! Never. Not one. Just the appearance of crying, but no tears. That's always a huge red flag.
Also, the part of waking up the kids has ALWAYS been a part of the Aisenberg story. Always. The 2.9 million dollar award was not just for court costs. I have heard that their win allowed them to purchase a new home outside of Florida and in their current state of residence.
I think that using a parents reaction as guilt in this case is a fundamental flaw in your guilt theory. While in the Ramsey case, sure--THEIR reaction can be debated. But immediately upon seeing the empty crib, Mrs. Aisenberg screamed. Now, that may not sit right with you, but it no doubt proves guilt. You said you wouldn't have screamed, but instead you would have checked your other childrens rooms because your 4 yr old often took the baby out of the bassinett. Sabrina wasn't in a bassinett. Sabrina was in a crib. My kids would never have taken their baby brother out of the crib because I instructed them not to because the baby could've very easily gotten hurt. A bassinett--sure, a child could take a baby out w/o injuring them. But the possibility of injuries is FAR greater when a very young child is attempting to remove a baby from a crib---therefore, my kids would've never taken their sibling out of the crib--it's not safe. I would scream if I saw the crib empty, no doubt.
Would you allow your 4 year old to remove your 5 month old infant from a crib? Not a bassinett as you stated earlier...but a crib.
inquiringmindz
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The name didn't ring a bell with me at first but now I remember the case. I couldn't believe it when it happened. I can remember the mothers plea on the news, it was heartbreaking and unbelievable that someone would steal a child. At first, I didn't think the PDI as I didn't think their could be more than one evil monster killing their children. The Paula Sims case had happened a year earlier near my home town. Only in that case they found her daughters body and thought the PDI but didn't have enough evidence. LE proved it true two years later when it happened again but this time she was convicted. That was the first time I realized a parent could kill their child. Over the years my gullibility factor has declined and now I can't believe how many children are abused, tortured, and killed by the ones who should love them the most. At this point, I'm on the fence.
christine2448
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Does anyone know the status of the parents now, as far as, are they still actively searching for Sabrina? Is there a website? Are there any composites as to what she may look like now?
Thanks!
ETA...just found this, wanted to post http://www.marvelcreations.com/sabrina.html
haven't investigated yet to see who runs this site. (not the parents, maybe retired LE?)
Here's another informative site:
http://www.karisable.com/sabrina.htm
Thanks!
ETA...just found this, wanted to post http://www.marvelcreations.com/sabrina.html
haven't investigated yet to see who runs this site. (not the parents, maybe retired LE?)
Here's another informative site:
http://www.karisable.com/sabrina.htm
christine2448
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This is interesting, I don't remember reading this before...from a Larry King Transcript found here
KING: Well, what do you make of it? No kidnapping, no ransom note, and I understand no forensic evidence of any kind. No fingerprints, nothing; right?
S. AISENBERG: Well, there were. There were fingerprints on our backslider that do not match Marlene or mine. There was a footprint on a bed ruffle in Sabrina's room that doesn't match any of the shoes or size foot of mine...
M. AISENBERG: There's a hair.
S. AISENBERG: ... or in our family. There was a mysterious hair in her crib. Also on the first day and I believe the third day, they brought dogs out to our house that sniffed and indicated that somebody went out through our back door and over a back fence with Sabrina, and since then they haven't commented on that.
M. AISENBERG: There are also two other incidents, attempted break-ins in our neighborhood within two weeks before ours, and also homes with babies
KING: Well, what do you make of it? No kidnapping, no ransom note, and I understand no forensic evidence of any kind. No fingerprints, nothing; right?
S. AISENBERG: Well, there were. There were fingerprints on our backslider that do not match Marlene or mine. There was a footprint on a bed ruffle in Sabrina's room that doesn't match any of the shoes or size foot of mine...
M. AISENBERG: There's a hair.
S. AISENBERG: ... or in our family. There was a mysterious hair in her crib. Also on the first day and I believe the third day, they brought dogs out to our house that sniffed and indicated that somebody went out through our back door and over a back fence with Sabrina, and since then they haven't commented on that.
M. AISENBERG: There are also two other incidents, attempted break-ins in our neighborhood within two weeks before ours, and also homes with babies
Shadow205
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Thursday, 28 Sep 2006, 12:33 PM EDT
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=1029939&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=1029939&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1
The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office is following new leads this week in the decade-old disappearance of baby Sabrina Aisenberg.
More investigators were added to the case to help chase down the information, said Tony Peluso, a Sheriff's Office attorney and spokesman on the Aisenberg case.
"We have currently some very promising leads," Peluso said Tuesday after a reporter's request for an update on the case. "I'm guardedly optimistic that leads that we have could lead us to solving the mystery of her disappearance."
Sabrina Aisenberg was 5 months old when she was reported missing on Nov. 24, 1997. Her parents, Steve and Marlene Aisenberg, said she was snatched from her crib as they slept in their home on Springville Drive in Valrico.
There has been no sign of Sabrina since.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/12/Hillsborough/Fresh_leads_emerge_in.shtml
More investigators were added to the case to help chase down the information, said Tony Peluso, a Sheriff's Office attorney and spokesman on the Aisenberg case.
"We have currently some very promising leads," Peluso said Tuesday after a reporter's request for an update on the case. "I'm guardedly optimistic that leads that we have could lead us to solving the mystery of her disappearance."
Sabrina Aisenberg was 5 months old when she was reported missing on Nov. 24, 1997. Her parents, Steve and Marlene Aisenberg, said she was snatched from her crib as they slept in their home on Springville Drive in Valrico.
There has been no sign of Sabrina since.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/12/Hillsborough/Fresh_leads_emerge_in.shtml